Intellect or Age Peer?
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kiddo:
very reassuring for Parents nebbermind....
Surely diff GEP parents will have diff wishlist. But so far none has shared here in this thread.Nebbermind:
[quote=\"concern2\"]
:scratchhead: So it is still about grades?
One thing I'm still not sure is what is tested in the GEP selection. Surely it is not just another IQ test.
I've seen kids with consistently excellent results from from P1~P3 not even making it to the selection when maybe 40~50 qualified, and some multi-talented (academic, performing arts, leadership) missing out on the final selection whe 1-~20 were selected.
I've met some of these kids. Some are really all-rounders....u can put them in any school and they will still excel. There are some who looks like ADD....others in a world of their own...some excellent in science but sux in math or vice versa. They r not an homogenous group of kids.
So my point is, if u r not selected, it does not limit your success academically. Similarly, if u r selected, u r not guaranteed academic success....u r still very much in control of your life, ie, it's still up to u whether u want to succeed or not.
there is many path to success.........
what is define as success anyway? :imanangel:[/quote]Success is to loving what you do, and the ability to find joy in what you do not like to do and have to do. :boogie: -
Chenonceau:
Don't :siam: leh... your thoughts are always very enlightening.
I think it was 2ppaaamm. Gifted children don't usually come in cookie cutter shapes. The current GEP has a syllabus at its centre, and is not entirely child responsive i.e., you observe EACH child and feel its interests and strengths and sculpt accordingly. In addition GEP kids also have the stress of PSLE which is entirely syllabus-centric.
When I evaluated the program a few years ago, the combination of both syllabus-centric PSLE + syllabus-centric broad-based GEP exposure + grades looked like a lot of work and stress. But maybe it's just me, and since we've never actually experienced the GEP personally, I think it's time to :siam:
I was never concerned about school syllabus, I send my children to school to play and have friends. So, you'll hardly see me complaining about the syllabus, because I don't even get involved. My kids pretty much handle themselves, unless the teachers call me (which I hate very much, btw). Similarly, I am never concerned about the GEP syllabus, don't really monitor, criticize or even evaluate that. I've always known our education system caters too much for making engineers and doctors, and focus nothing on enriching the soul. I don't complain, I provide materials for my children even when they were in school. I've never forgotten my mission for sending the kids to school - to play, I supplement whatever I needed to.
What led me to ultimately pull out my kids from school is the mentality of the educators and the system. There are too many problems to name, but I cannot agree to too many things, mostly administrative: from how they handle late comers, administrative forms, teacher's childish behavior, principal's high and mighty ego, strange way of handling parents' complains etc etc. For this child, most importantly, because of these strange admin procedures and treatment he got, he fell into depression. I had to rescue him from people who do not understand giftedness, for reasons I stated in my previous post. Sadly, even the MOE folks agreed with me, their reason is that other countries have more resources than Singapore and we are too small to cater to individuals. Like I said before, I find this excuse atrocious, whether the kid is gifted or not. As educators, we are supposed to cater to each kid!
It was a difficult decision to finally homeschool, but it was my older boy was told me what the right thing to do was. DS1 went to university at 14 (3.5 years ago), and he found release and enjoyment. When DS2 had all these problems, he told me the right thing to do is to let him learn with his intellect peers, not age peers. So far, I am only too happy DS2 has no more signs of depression and is learning what he loves day-to-day.
Many are enslaved to the GEP system, and many are also enslaved to the Singapore education system, thinking this is the only way out for the latter, and thinking it is prestigious for the former. For the longest time, I was like that too. But now that I found out how much of a frog under the well I was, I found freedom in pursuing what my kids love together with them. The radical acceleration is only a side effect/benefit from all these. Whether your kid is top 0.000001% or bottom 10%, I still believe he will find immense joy in doing what his heart and mind desires and not what the system unnecessarily forces him to do.
Don't get me wrong. I am for a good syllabus, I am for healthy competition, I am for good discipline and for asking a kid to do what is necessary even if he does not want to do those. But the current school system has gone overboard with KPI-chasing educators and Grade-chasing parents. I just want out of it, and move on - our double bonus is the way forward is upwards. -
2ppaamm:
:oops: Nothing to admire. I just did cos I didn't want him to be stressed or risk being ostracize by his peers.tutormum:
DS3 shown great interest in learning ever since he could read at 2 years old. He looked forward to going to school so much that whenever he past by his brother's former Kindergarten his eyes would glow. When I refused to buy assessment books for him to do, he would cry. It was only when he was in K2 that I bought them for him to prepare him for Primary school. My reason is simple, I don't want him to move too much ahead of his peers. School work for the first 3 years were too easy for him. I only allow him to do assessments that were a year ahead of his peers; ie. he did P2 assessment when he was in P1. He has no tuition and as assessment books were too easy for him and he got bored subsequently, he spent his time reading. When he made it to the 2nd round of the GEP test, I was pleasantly surprised. He claimed that he's half gifted though he didn't make it to the GEP program. He's been cruising along in his schoolwork and I was only concerned when he needed to take the PSLE. Next year, he'll be sitting for his O levels and I'm now shifting to higher gear by starting to apply pressure on him. Still, DS3 is living a carefree life, doing the minimum and enjoying what he's doing. He could have performed much better in school if I didn't put a brake on his 'progress' but I choose to let him enjoy his childhood rather to stress himself out to be in the top of his cohort. I may sound like a bad mummy but I don't want him to be too 'competitive' and get burnt out in the long run.
I admire what you do, and I am sure your DS3 is doing well and enjoying himself. But I am curious why you benchmark him against his cohort and do not want him to be 'too much ahead of his peers'? Why does that matter? By peers we are talking about his age peers. Now, I understand this is like so long ago (more than a decade), but would you have done differently today?
btw, I had the same thinking as you with my older children, and I did also hold them back a few years. My son (who should be a year or two older than your DS3) was held back 3 years before I finally relented and sent him to the university to pursue his passion and dream. Today, he still tells me that was the best thing that has happened to him, to pursue his dreams at a young age, to have friends who understand how he thinks, to discuss with them about issues others find strange. He still keeps his age peers friends, and go out with them, trains with them, and go for overseas trips, and even parties. Now, they are all talking about getting the driver's license and getting prepared for the army next year.
I do at times wonder whether I've done the right thing esp when my friend's daughter went to GEP. There's so many 'ifs' but after talking to some teachers and parents (even some students) I guess I may not be wrong either. DS3 became arrogant in lower primary until he realised that he was still a small fish in the ocean. He did mix with weaker students and help them in their work, so he wasn't arrogant in that sense but at times I do think that he's too smart for his own good. :xedfingers: He likes to mix with ppl older than him and in a way this provides the platform to discuss issues deem beyond his scope. At times he smells of elitism and gets irritated when his peer appears ignorant by saying or doing something unacceptable to his level of intelligence. :slapshead: I emphasize moral values more than academic and 
wish that he will be well equipped to be able to survive and be an asset in this society. 
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2ppaamm:
Ya! Whilst I was hoping other parents would talk about their experience with GEP, I don't mean your thoughts are not welcomed..
Don't :siam: leh... your thoughts are always very enlightening.
2ppaamm, I haven't actually gone through the link you have provided. Is it the same one as the homeschooling one? When I first mentioned jumping grades, I don't really mean to pull the kid out of the education system and homeschool. I mean if the kid has already achieved P3 standard (maybe through hothousing or sheer giftedness) and passes P3 standard of his/her school, he/she is allowed to go straight to P4. Just want to make myself clear... So...would it still be the same link to refer to? -
concern2:
That link is what you need. My younger boy's case is quite different. I only pulled out one of my kids for homeschooling, the rest followed the school syllabus all the way. 3 in the universities, the 4th is waiting to get in. All went in by 14. I found out, there's no difference academically, really. So I homeschooled DS2 not because I wanted to accelerate him, but because I found school unsuitable for him, and I was given a chance to do it well. For the rest of the bunch, school was fine and they breezed through school without much problem (especially the girls), there are some stuff that pops up once in a while, but no biggie. Again, for them the speed in mainstream was not suitable as well, so they accelerated and double enrolled most of their secondary school years.
Ya! Whilst I was hoping other parents would talk about their experience with GEP, I don't mean your thoughts are not welcomed..2ppaamm:
Don't :siam: leh... your thoughts are always very enlightening.
2ppaamm, I haven't actually gone through the link you have provided. Is it the same one as the homeschooling one? When I first mentioned jumping grades, I don't really mean to pull the kid out of the education system and homeschool. I mean if the kid has already achieved P3 standard (maybe through hothousing or sheer giftedness) and passes P3 standard of his/her school, he/she is allowed to go straight to P4. Just want to make myself clear... So...would it still be the same link to refer to? -
concern2:
No lah... I never once got the idea that you did not welcome me. It's I who thinks that I should not guess/surmise/project realities that I have no inkling of. We all live our single lives. My life did not include the experience of GEP so I am happy to sit back and learn from others' experience of it.
Ya! Whilst I was hoping other parents would talk about their experience with GEP, I don't mean your thoughts are not welcomed..2ppaamm:
Don't :siam: leh... your thoughts are always very enlightening. -
Hello, I am directed to post in this thread by zeemimi. Here's what i posted:
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Posting on behalf of my brother who is at his wits end....
My nephew started his new Sec 1 at a SAP school but after 3 weeks, he told his parents that he wants to withdraw and do home-schooling after finding out only first 6 years (P1-6) are compulsory education.
His parents of course refused and he threatened to jump off MRT tracks. My nephew is very quiet, reserved yet highly intelligent boy. He had received 3 years of counselling at school and IMH where the docs told my brother he has NO mental illness, no autism of any kind just behavioural problems.
My nephew also refused to enrol in private schools. He simply hate interactions with others (like teachers, classmates). He is highly emotional and sensitive to others comments. One of his teachers simply ask him for an answer in class and he got pissed off. His current school principle told my brother it would be wasted if my nephew drop out of school as his PSLE results were very good. Prinicple did not encourage deferrment as well. If he minimize contact with outside world, he would become even more antisocial in his teenage years...
Any parents here also do home-schooling for your kids ?
How do you do it?
Any providers who specializes in IT yet offer a formal secondary education.
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2ppaamm - I have posted earlier (see link) and this is current development...
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25945&start=30
Can you share how do you achieve home schooling? Anything the parents need to take note or do? -
Littlefly:
I read your post on the other thread and was just too busy to reply but I was thinking about your nephew's case this afternoon.Hello, I am directed to post in this thread by zeemimi. Here's what i posted:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posting on behalf of my brother who is at his wits end....
My nephew started his new Sec 1 at a SAP school but after 3 weeks, he told his parents that he wants to withdraw and do home-schooling after finding out only first 6 years (P1-6) are compulsory education.
His parents of course refused and he threatened to jump off MRT tracks. My nephew is very quiet, reserved yet highly intelligent boy. He had received 3 years of counselling at school and IMH where the docs told my brother he has NO mental illness, no autism of any kind just behavioural problems.
My nephew also refused to enrol in private schools. He simply hate interactions with others (like teachers, classmates). He is highly emotional and sensitive to others comments. One of his teachers simply ask him for an answer in class and he got pissed off. His current school principle told my brother it would be wasted if my nephew drop out of school as his PSLE results were very good. Prinicple did not encourage deferrment as well. If he minimize contact with outside world, he would become even more antisocial in his teenage years...
Any parents here also do home-schooling for your kids ?
How do you do it?
Any providers who specializes in IT yet offer a formal secondary education.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2ppaamm - I have posted earlier (see link) and this is current development...
http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25945&start=30
Can you share how do you achieve home schooling? Anything the parents need to take note or do?
I have to tell you I don't think he is suitable for homeschooling, much as I advocate this. Not because I think he is beyond hope (far from this!), but I think it will endanger whoever is going to be his homeschool teacher. If it is his mum, she will surely have psychological issues in no time. At least from as much as I have read. I have been following this case, and I do remember him quite vividly.
As to how to homeschool, I have written about this before and you can refer to this. http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25139&p=684825&hilit=homeschool#p684825
I'm going to read a bit more and think about this, as it is now, I have no clue what can be good for the boy, or how to draw him out.
Have you read this http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26873&p=629654&hilit=hikikomori#p629654? Read the part about Hikkikomori. Something I am very worried about given the current education system. Does that sound familiar to you? -
Read more about Hikkikomori here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori
Take care of the little ones, a pressurizing education system can cause a lot of harm. Well meaning parents, under the pressure of the system, may also be the source of such a phenomenon.
For my case, I believe my children were saved by acceleration, which gave them confidence, hope, and escape from a system that does not forgive, that does not satisfy, that does not understand, pitching friends against friends. Radically accelerating my kids, I deliberately choose to not chase after A's, I gave my kids a totally different yardstick, themselves.
Honestly, because I read, research and talk to so many people about education, I get really scared of stuff like these (Hikkikomori) and having seen so many recluse from RI, GEP, etc etc, from as young as Sec 1, I wonder if anyone from the education ministry is ever as worried as any parent. These things never surface in our press. But I know so many personally. Sometimes I wonder if I had not rescued my kids and accelerated them, what would have happened? -
2ppaamm:
If my son is so smart, I will be glad to quit my job and nurture him. It's every mummy and daddy's dreams!If your child can cope with higher level work, would you do whatever you know/can to accelerate him, or stick to the current education system and let him learn with his peers?
Curious what our mummies and daddies think. If you would do something different from the school syllabus, what would that be?
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