Is GEP really necessary?
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2ppaamm:
O, sorry. I didn't know you have not started university yet. Maybe you will find out later when or if you get there. :boogie:[/quote]Hi Pam,
Remember what I said in a previous post in GEP about some vice-principal saying \"write me a report and get back to me on the findings\" instead of replying to the student during a forum? DĆ©jĆ vu.ForumWriter:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
Re-read every post again. And then write an essay to tell me how I have attacked the profession, in this format:
1. Topic sentence for each paragraph, write down how I attack the profession, quoting exactly my words and how you interpret that.
2. Support your views for each based upon your understanding.
3. Give a proper conclusion to your thesis.
You should learn to interpret things yourself, since you have clearly stated your credentials. At the tertiary level, we don't spoonfeed.
Trying to suppress others with \"credentials\" instead of explaining where I went wrong? I would like to reiterate: This is a forum. Rubbish cleaner, president, housewife from all walks of life are welcome here.
Does that mean as long we aren't university professors, we have no right to talk on equal terms and find out more from each other, because \"At the tertiary level, we don't spoonfeed\"?
Just out of curiosity, do you treat students this way too?
That's not that nice to say lah. -
Snow Crystal:
Hi ForumWriter,
Forum Writer, firstly I appreciate your sharings especially about IP, DSA, GEP, A levels grades inflation etc. Your refreshingly frank sharings about that post exam talk about effectiveness of IP and the reaction from your VP were really an eye-opener. I also nodded my head about your comment on the students' standard deterioration... :sad: For me, I always like to hear students' real thoughts of their schools. I hope you will continue to share your insights and history about IP as a pioneer batch student. Over time, things have changed in IP though...hopefully for the betterForumWriter:
I don't care about credentials. My only point of stating that I was from the GEP is so that I can share my experiences about the GEP and correct common misconceptions. That is my only intention of joining this forum in the first place, since I figured too many unsubstantiated rumours about the GEP were buzzing around..
Hope you don't find this aunty lor li lor sor (llls) but.... do dust some EQ on when you put across remarks
instead of sounding like you are engaging in some debate...For example, in All About GEP thread, your sentence 'I don't believe GEP students should be made to slow down for others in the IP to catch up' sounds a bit offensive to mainstreamers and undermines efforts of the mainstreamers who work so hard to get into IP.
Pam is a humble person and her uni students greatly respect her.
I believe you are probably waiting to go uni or is already a university student and if so, hopefully will not/ is not under Pam
:rotflmao:
Besides academic excellence, brushing up people skills and learing how to bring out ideas in a convincing non confrontational way are very important too... you will realize when you go out and work. :grphug: :xedfingers:
I'm with Snow Crystal on this. I too find your posts refreshing and appreciate your sharing your experiences on IP, GEP etc. But as Snow Crystal said, maybe communicate your thoughts in a less adversorial manner? -
2ppaamm:
What I mean is 2ppaamm has double meanings, one is 2 papa and mama, another is 2 Pam. Tt's creative to me.
Not creative in this case at all lah. :evil: I should also change the nickname. Any creative ideas? Mama-san was badly received by DH, so maybe something more interesting. :evil:PiggyLalala:
Hi 2ppaamm, u are really creative. 2ppaamm has another meaning besides 2 papa and mama?
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verykiasu2010:
really? I misread it as 5ppaamm
my old fleur eyes always misread it as 2ppm, which is pretty good for zero defect target2ppaamm:
Not creative in this case at all lah. :evil: I should also change the nickname. Any creative ideas? Mama-san was badly received by DH, so maybe something more interesting. :evil:
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Nebbermind:
really? I misread it as 5ppaamm
my old fleur eyes always misread it as 2ppm, which is pretty good for zero defect targetverykiasu2010:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]
Not creative in this case at all lah. :evil: I should also change the nickname. Any creative ideas? Mama-san was badly received by DH, so maybe something more interesting. :evil:[/quote]dat nick can cause old flower eyes double vision wan
machiam her own name following her nick ard like a shadow lik dis
![](\"http://i45.tinypic.com/20kwx0i.jpg\")
http://i45.tinypic.com/20kwx0i.jpg\">
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Wow! So much sound and fury! Let me add to it! (haha, no lah)
Would like to share my views if I may, perhaps 平平ē, and get this thread back on the friendly hug-hug mode that is a hallmark of KSP.
I think this post is where it started going a bit pear-shaped, and I can see how both parties started getting each other's goat.
To be fair, I though FW (forum writer, not foreign worker ok) brought up a few good points. I deeply respect 2ppaamm, and appreciate the time she's taken to share her experiences (esp wrt bringing up her brood in so many aspects). But I think (citing as requested, have a bit of time today) that some comments were a bit sweeping, and rather unkind.2ppaamm:
That they could not understand the vocab he was using. This is comical to me. Sometimes, I think the teachers are just as lost, and kept looking for MOE for directions. :siao: On one hand, they are the best teachers, on another, they cannot handle the kids. What's wrong with these folks. And then, have to mark together?
Rather mocking in tone, no? Yes, some teachers might be deficient vocabulary-wise, but I wouldn't characterise it as comical. They have to mark together yes, but perhaps this is more a construct of the system rather than a lame need to huddle together for security? I know some teachers who'd love to be given the leeway to mark alone, but MOE demands otherwise. In this respect, I agree with FW that, beyond a reasonably good grasp of the subject matter in her field, my best teachers have been those who inspired and empowered. Unless what 2ppaamm is saying is that GEP teachers today don't even have that reasonably good grasp, which I doubt, since most of them have always been decent.2ppaamm:
I have taught thousands of high performing students who go on and head organizations, including GEPpers, and so my definition could be very different from others with different experiences.
Once again, I would like to point out that the word \"best\" has many definitions.ForumWriter:
[quote=\"2ppaamm\"]To be very honest, my son found the topics not challenging at all at GEP. Tell you what is really hard for him to cope. The expectations of the teachers that he could not understand at all. Not the work. I found it complicated too, that they cannot mark their students' work and have to meet with 8 other schools etc etc. That they could not understand the vocab he was using. This is comical to me. Sometimes, I think the teachers are just as lost, and kept looking for MOE for directions. :siao: On one hand, they are the best teachers, on another, they cannot handle the kids. What's wrong with these folks. And then, have to mark together?
What is a \"best\" teacher? A teacher who can make the lessons interesting? A teacher who has lots of academic knowledge? A teacher who is hardworking and dedicated?
I'm inclined to feel that GEP teachers are those who are able to make the lessons interesting. They are able to engage and facilitate the discussion of ideas.
Besides, the meeting with other teachers is probably to standardise marks, not so much as to discuss on what the essay means.
No one ever said that teachers must have more out-of-syllabus (general) knowledge than students. Didn't I just show you that the GEP kid taught the GEP teacher how to solve a 3-dimensional Schroedinger equation (solution is vastly different for different elements, quarks, bosons, fermions and leptons)?
But that doesn't mean the teacher is incapable. As long as the teacher is able to inspire and empower, he/she has done her job.
I have a problem with this silly way to standardise, which is not present anywhere at a higher level. My 12 year old can tell you 30 in a school is enough to normalize, so this practice of bell-curving serves no purpose at all except to create a 'chasing the bell-curve' effect which is of no purpose to learning.
You are DEAD WRONG about competition spurring excellence. WRONG. At the pinnacle, it is not about competition that makes people create, invent and go beyond boundaries. It is the inquiry mind, the need to excel beyond oneself, the desire to improve current state of affairs that drive innovations. Nobody is there to compare and compete with you at the pinnacle, it is you against yourself, that's how great people create new things. Not by comparing and sparring against friends or foes, these are done at only very young or low levels where there are just too many people to compete with. Who did Einstein or Terry Tao compete with? Do a little check on homeschooled children. They fair well and better against school going children in many countries. Who do they compete with? THEMSELVES.
That's what I am laughing about. That there is a lack of empowerment to the teachers to decide when we are told they are the best. Consequently, we have a bunch of capable teacher incapacitated by a dysfunctional system/mentality.
ALL (not just best) teachers must at least have the confidence that they can judge a student's work given by them, and ALL teachers must be able to offer consistent grading. Even simple standardized tests like SAT, GCE, university exams, you don't expect all the markers to gather to discuss each student's work and standardize marks, do you? :siao: We have a set of guidelines and we just follow and everything will be standardized. As it is, the teachers have been robbed of their own confidence, relying on their answer sheet or refer to GEB, anything out of the norm, refer to GEB. Which, btw, is no different from Singapore's mainstream where teachers are so afraid of making mistakes, they don't decide.
[/quote]There's probably also a bit of generation gap here (if I may humbly posit, no offence intended). FW doesn't like CAPS, most folks here prob don't make much of 2ppaamm's caps on DEAD WRONG, WRONG and THEMSELVES. Younger generation views that as SHOUTING! LOUD! and thus = very bad netiquette. For us, it's probably more of emphasis, so long as the words in question are not rude in and of themselves.
Then there was a little bit of a downwards spiral, and I agree that 2ppaamm came across as a bit condescending. But that's cos FW didn't read the whole thread (i assume) and has not benefitted from her wisdom and usual benign benevolent persona in other threads.
As for FW, although I can see where you're coming from (am a senior myself, and incidentally now a mum of 2), you really don't need to react so vehemently. This is a friendly forum, mostly comprising parents trying to find out a little more from each other about schools and child-rearing. We aren't formal to a fault - that is the beauty of KSP. The bantering (sometimes naughty! *frown frown*-->you know who you are!), light-hearted teasing and chatter makes KSP fun! Life is so serious already, surely there's some room for jokes amidst intellectual debate.
And FW, when you quoted KS Bull I initially thought it was some international journal like Nature. After googling, urm... it really doesn't lend much to your credentials, sorry to say.
Once again, I was also in the humanities prog (albeit in a more fun JC haha), so I can understand how it rankles to be insulted in basic comprehension skills, but... when you fight back on the perceived personal insult, it can only get more personal, iykwim... so times when such things happen, I usually choose to let it go, brush it away if immaterial to the conversation at hand. taking a few hits good-naturedly (instead of feeling compelled to take offence and fight back blow for blow) doesn't diminish your arguments.
Ok gtg now. Have written this on the fly, so don't nitpick on my language etc ok? no time to fair this.
hugs all round! -
:goodpost: toddles.
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2ppaamm:
Hi 2ppaamm, may I know what are the perks and privileges that GEP have besides smaller ratio of teacher to student and DSA?With all the perks and privileges, if GEP continues to fail to produce students BETTER than mainstream, there is going to be further discrimination against GEPpers.....
the unwarranted privileges given to GEPpers..... -
Intresting and very high quality debate btw 2ppaamm and FW. Good to read the constrasting arguments minus the fury tone.
2ppaamm is a respected academia but where exactly does FW come from? At this juncture, i am merely making an intelligent guess. He is a senior student and hails from NUS Bukit Timah campus and also travels to Kent Ridge for his concurrent master programme.
Of course i am not really confident that my above guess is correct. -
Edureach:
I think FW has told us where he is from, KSBull... http://thegeneralpaper.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/ks-bull-essays-online/Intresting and very high quality debate btw 2ppaamm and FW. Good to read the constrasting arguments minus the fury tone.
2ppaamm is a respected academia but where exactly does FW come from? At this juncture, i am merely making an intelligent guess. He is a senior student and hails from NUS Bukit Timah campus and also travels to Kent Ridge for his concurrent master programme.
Of course i am not really confident that my above guess is correct.
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