Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition
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verykiasu2010:
group 2 kids are the same with or without PSLE. what is the diff ?[/quote]Parents need not nag from P5 to P6. Better relationship bet parent and child. Even bochup parents will pay lipservice, \"don't waste time doing this, have you finished schoolwork ...\", and maybe bar kids from some time consuming activities.
At least for Group 2 kids, the borrowed down time could be used to pursue other non academic pursuits? Not a bad thing, I say. Some of us don't need our kids to be scholars, just live a balanced and meaningful life.Mawar:
[quote=\"BeContented\"]Trying to picture how will it be like without PSLE......to have streaming to be done at 16yo.
Group 1 : kiasu and educated and know-how-to-teach parents
- will still be busy enriching their children.....cannot relax, must be on your toes, cannot be lazy/bochup, must do your best. With more time now, let's accelerate!!! Must make sure can cover everything.
Group 2 : bo-chup and clueless parents
- with no timeline (or at least much later) will be more relax. Since school result is good (no difficult paper), no need tuition lah. Also no idea how the child is doing in school or how prepared is the child for the BIG streaming at 16.
Group 3 : somewhat kiasu but may not know what to do parents
- will start wondering where their kids stand. How to find out? What if the child end up bottom at 16yo? How to make sure they get to good schools when time comes? Start hearing from grapevine the rich & smart are having enrichment, go for IQ test, able to get hold of good resources. Then start enrolling into enrichments to make sure their kids are not left behind.
Eeerrrr....picture still look similar to me except group 2 will really really fall behind now. :scared: -
BeContented:
Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint:Trying to picture how will it be like without PSLE......to have streaming to be done at 16yo.
Group 1 : kiasu and educated and know-how-to-teach parents
- will still be busy enriching their children.....cannot relax, must be on your toes, cannot be lazy/bochup, must do your best. With more time now, let's accelerate!!! Must make sure can cover everything.
Group 2 : bo-chup and clueless parents
- with no timeline (or at least much later) will be more relax. Since school result is good (no difficult paper), no need tuition lah. Also no idea how the child is doing in school or how prepared is the child for the BIG streaming at 16.
Group 3 : somewhat kiasu but may not know what to do parents
- will start wondering where their kids stand. How to find out? What if the child end up bottom at 16yo? How to make sure they get to good schools when time comes? Start hearing from grapevine the rich & smart are having enrichment, go for IQ test, able to get hold of good resources. Then start enrolling into enrichments to make sure their kids are not left behind.
Eeerrrr....picture still look similar to me except group 2 will really really fall behind now. :scared: -
jtoh:
then all parents and kids become Apple products : iDiot
Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint: -
jtoh:
Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint:BeContented:
Trying to picture how will it be like without PSLE......to have streaming to be done at 16yo.
Group 1 : kiasu and educated and know-how-to-teach parents
- will still be busy enriching their children.....cannot relax, must be on your toes, cannot be lazy/bochup, must do your best. With more time now, let's accelerate!!! Must make sure can cover everything.
Group 2 : bo-chup and clueless parents
- with no timeline (or at least much later) will be more relax. Since school result is good (no difficult paper), no need tuition lah. Also no idea how the child is doing in school or how prepared is the child for the BIG streaming at 16.
Group 3 : somewhat kiasu but may not know what to do parents
- will start wondering where their kids stand. How to find out? What if the child end up bottom at 16yo? How to make sure they get to good schools when time comes? Start hearing from grapevine the rich & smart are having enrichment, go for IQ test, able to get hold of good resources. Then start enrolling into enrichments to make sure their kids are not left behind.
Eeerrrr....picture still look similar to me except group 2 will really really fall behind now. :scared:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: first time i see jtoh used so many exclamation marks!!!! -
Intermezzo:
Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint:jtoh:
[quote=\"BeContented\"]Trying to picture how will it be like without PSLE......to have streaming to be done at 16yo.
Group 1 : kiasu and educated and know-how-to-teach parents
- will still be busy enriching their children.....cannot relax, must be on your toes, cannot be lazy/bochup, must do your best. With more time now, let's accelerate!!! Must make sure can cover everything.
Group 2 : bo-chup and clueless parents
- with no timeline (or at least much later) will be more relax. Since school result is good (no difficult paper), no need tuition lah. Also no idea how the child is doing in school or how prepared is the child for the BIG streaming at 16.
Group 3 : somewhat kiasu but may not know what to do parents
- will start wondering where their kids stand. How to find out? What if the child end up bottom at 16yo? How to make sure they get to good schools when time comes? Start hearing from grapevine the rich & smart are having enrichment, go for IQ test, able to get hold of good resources. Then start enrolling into enrichments to make sure their kids are not left behind.
Eeerrrr....picture still look similar to me except group 2 will really really fall behind now. :scared:
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: first time i see jtoh used so many exclamation marks!!!![/quote]she used lots of upside down exclamation marks iiii -
jtoh:
This is very likely the scenario if we go for the obvious solution of taking away the PSLE. Plus... some people will stay clueless till 16.
Group 1 and Group 3 parents will go for even more IQ tests and enrichment classes because if they wait until O levels and don't do well there, how? No PSLE certificate to fall back on!!! Only Kindergarten graduation photo!! Cannot!! How can their precious children's future be dependent on just the O level exams?? What if they don't do well??? Must go actively in search of some interim certification ala iPSLE exam. Then some clever iTLL centre will set up interim certification exams and all these parents will flock there. :faint: -
verykiasu2010:
Thank you for saying this. It makes me feel better and understood.\"teach less, learn more\"
I think most people have taken it too literally; and the implementor also failed miserably
Teach less learn more works marvellously with the GEP and HA kids because of the student calibre. How did a GEP thingy end up in mainstream WITHOUT the support (small classes and good teachers) that goes into GEP?
It's just like the IP. Not every child fits that learning mode. If they wanna bring IP style to mainstream, then each of the lesser calibre children needs MORE teaching support, not LESS than what has been given the current IP child (or IP child of the past few years since IP has been greatly expanded).
If GEP mode makes it into mainstream, the mainstream kids need even SMALLER classes to make it through because their motivation and curiosity just isn't there. Mainstream parents get around this by sending for small group tuition... and by self-coaching. I have a question (a sincere one because I dunno the answer): \"Is Teach Less Learn More at all relevant to mainstream children?\"
I hope they don't decide to bring IP style to all of mainstream. The learning mode may not fit. -
verykiasu2010:
There are ways to obtain reliable data.. it's whether they are \"motivated\" to do it..
from MOE point of view, why would they want to be involved in tuition survey ? will parents tell the truth ? you will, but how about the other 99 ? mind you, some parents will undermine the survey by providing fictitious data hoping to skew the result to what they want to see.Chenonceau:
(3) lack of clarity into how much tuition plays a part in student performance (just collect the data and gain visibility... are there constraints there too?)
And I am not talking about surveys.. surveys are never a reliable source of data.. -
Chenonceau:
Agree. This is also why I doubt if the situation would be better if they use exactly the same teaching materials in all schools. Even within the same school, the teachers may need to use different approach/different material to teach different classes effectively. Of course, this is not the same as discrepancies caused by incompetent teachers.
Teach less learn more works marvellously with the GEP and HA kids because of the student calibre. How did a GEP thingy end up in mainstream WITHOUT the support (small classes and good teachers) that goes into GEP?
It's just like the IP. Not every child fits that learning mode. If they wanna bring IP style to mainstream, then each of the lesser calibre children needs MORE teaching support, not LESS than what has been given the current IP child (or IP child of the past few years since IP has been greatly expanded).
If GEP mode makes it into mainstream, the mainstream kids need even SMALLER classes to make it through because their motivation and curiosity just isn't there. Mainstream parents get around this by sending for small group tuition... and by self-coaching. I have a question: \"Is Teach Less Learn More at all relevant to mainstream children?\"
I hope they don't decide to bring IP style to all of mainstream. The learning mode may not fit. -
wonderm:
I get this point, and I agree. Thus... I suggested better textbooks AND the following.
Agree. This is also why I doubt if the situation would be better if they use exactly the same teaching materials in all schools. Even within the same school, the teachers may need to use different approach/different material to teach different classes effectively. Of course, this is not the same as discrepancies caused by incompetent teachers.
Teachers should be given access to a lot more materials than they currently have access too. This helps them to generate customised student-centric materials. Part of this can be resolved by a national teacher sharing database. Teachers have no time to write their own materials, mark 40 X 4 classes of work plus others...
Exams to sift kids into good and bad classes (which then define access to material) should not be testing BEYOND what is taught. Because then, only enriched kids get into good classes and are given challenging materials. My DS can more than cope with challenging stuff... but he was given reams and reams and reams of simple sums from the Workbook all of last year (except for the 2 weeks before exams where they're given exam practices which were all of a sudden very difficult).
Part of the reason was that the classes are streamed by 4-subject-average... and the kids taught together. In DS' class, there are discrepancies in ability in all 4 subjects but the kids are taught like they were 80+ in EVERY subject. How student-centric can that be?
Some of these processes... e.g., processes defining subject-student-centrism when doing student triage can be standardized across schools. This will go some way in standardizing quality across schools. I know there are schools who do triage by subject so that the right materials go to the right brains. There are also schools who don't, relying only on SAME textbooks across every class in the level... and on tutors to fill the gap in need for customised materials.
You may have misunderstood me. I asked for better textbooks... not SAME textbooks and materials for everyone. Consistent quality doesn't equate to SAME textbooks. An inappropriate textbook for a particular calibre of child, is low quality whilst the same textbook could be high quality teaching for another. Nonetheless, whilst we agree that materials should differ with audience, is it not true that in some schools, the WHOLE level uses the SAME textbook... the whole school uses the SAME series of textbooks. AND the school produces precious little notes.
How student-centric is that? The system styles itself student-centric. Big word. But unreal.
In addition, the IP group and GEP group have gone through a standardzied triage already. It thus makes sense that RI (and GEP) uses different textbooks than XXXXXX Secondary School. In primary school, one can assume that there are bright kids in every school... and thus there CAN be 1 or 2 dedicated textbooks for the top 2 classes... and a mid-range for the middle... and of course, we have Foundation for the very weak.
There you have it... same textbooks in all primary schools ... YET different textbooks within the same school to cater to the reality that bright kids exist in all primary schools. This is far more student-centric than having different textbooks in every primary school, used for ALL the students in that school.