zac's mum\" post_id=\"1922428\" time=\"1563991333\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1922428 time=1563991333 user_id=53606]

Arise SG\" post_id=\"1922422\" time=\"1563985068\" user_id=\"179794:[quote=\"Arise SG\" post_id=1922422 time=1563985068 user_id=179794][quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1922040 time=1563887498 user_id=53606]In case you have not yet noticed, MOE has already changed the system and our P3s, P2s, P1s are all benefitting from the less stressful system now.

It’s a little too late to be whacking the parents or the kids in this 2019 PSLE thread. Let them focus on their revision now since they can’t change what policy/system they were given.[/quote]

You will be sorely disappointed. Yes they took away \"exams\" officially. But streaming still has to occur at the end of p2. So guess what, schools insert all sorts of \"performance tasks\" or whatever other names they want to hide it under. By the way, no intention to whack. Just sharing a POV for parents who are interested to see a new perspective.[/quote]

In my son’s school, the streaming serves only the purpose of spreading the kids evenly into all mixed ability classes. The “top 1-2 classes” system is being made obsolete by MOE too.[/quote]I'm quite thankful to hear that. I can only speak for the competitive schools in the jurong east/west area because my students come from these schools. The schools have already set in place performance tasks and take into account performances in holistic elements to stream the students at the end of P2.

In the end, I still believe that a student that is raised well and taught well will naturally have good results due to the proper learning that was put in place since young. We don't need to focus on grades to get good grades.

zac's mum\" post_id=\"1922040\" time=\"1563887498\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=1922040 time=1563887498 user_id=53606]
In case you have not yet noticed, MOE has already changed the system and our P3s, P2s, P1s are all benefitting from the less stressful system now.

It’s a little too late to be whacking the parents or the kids in this 2019 PSLE thread. Let them focus on their revision now since they can’t change what policy/system they were given.[/quote]

You will be sorely disappointed. Yes they took away \"exams\" officially. But streaming still has to occur at the end of p2. So guess what, schools insert all sorts of \"performance tasks\" or whatever other names they want to hide it under. By the way, no intention to whack. Just sharing a POV for parents who are interested to see a new perspective.

Vevey\" post_id=\"1922000\" time=\"1563882364\" user_id=\"1350:

Yes. Personal experience.

Eldest met cop but didn't get posted to the school.

Could have appealed since met cop but we decided not to because
his posted school is perfect except that it is not IP.

A v tough decision for a 12yo to make that morning but he seemed sure and relieved. That was good enough for us.

Would we regret the decision?
We might nv know, hopefully.

That's life.

MyPillow\" post_id=\"1921861\" time=\"1563868269\" user_id=\"70594:

[quote=Nebbermind post_id=1921851 time=1563867848 user_id=15571]I think PSLE parents are so stressed...I mean, to sweat over the number of decimal places!!

can b important coz
it is the last decimal/number that determine who is the last kid to get into the sch mah - under current system

[/quote]Depends on how you define the parameters for regret. For that, it all boils down to perspective. Perspective will make or break a person. If you made the conscious effort to maximise every good or bad controllable situation in your life and leave the rest to fate, there will be no regrets and you will lead a happy life. But if you choose the see the glass as half empty, you will never be full satisfied/happy. I just wish for all children to lead happier lives. So many of them are unhappy/stressed/not motivated these days. It worries me.

Honestly, upon reflection after so many years of teaching and seeing how hundreds of my students turn out. I'd prefer if my son is a 250 happy student than a 270 unhappy student. There are too many intangible skills that schools don't teach. I'd rather he put in the effort to pick up these intangible skills than to spend countless hours pushing for that extra 20 marks. There was once where my student's classmate told him that he couldn't teach my student how to do a question because his parents told him if his friends got better grades the bell curve will push his own grades down. Do we really want to raise a generation of such people?

floppy\" post_id=\"1921943\" time=\"1563874230\" user_id=\"97579:

Arise SG\" post_id=\"1921900\" time=\"1563870582\" user_id=\"179794:[quote=\"Arise SG\" post_id=1921900 time=1563870582 user_id=179794]
As a teacher, I would like to tell all parents here, once you're placing so much emphasis on grades and T score counting, you have already lost. Not that grades are not important. Grades should only be used as feedback to help our children improve themselves. Also, if you spent less time counting T scores and use this few extra hours to think about how to create a more ideal environment (like specific positive praise, or rethinking achievable goals for your child to aspire towards) for your child to feel more motivated and confident, I assure you that you return on investment of time would be way higher.
...

Don't disagree with what you say but you are preaching to the wrong crowd here. This is KSP, where every points and every advantage counts

Moreover, most of the KSP kids are high achievers (not mine ). Discussion about scores in the 250s, 260s and securing DSAs make such endeavours look like a walk in a park. I don't think there's a lack of motivation or fear here (ok, maybe fear of not entering their dream R / HC school) [/quote]

Which is why I'm here to throw in my 2 cents in hopes of changing mindsets. When we grow old, these kids will be the ones leading Singapore and I don't want to suffer during my old age. Someone has to start somewhere :rahrah: . I taught a kid from the top Rulang class 2 years ago. He faced a lack of motivation due to over drilling and endless papers from school. I didn't have to give him many papers to add to the mountains of work already given by his teachers. Used videos and movies to teach more difficult writing concepts instead. Every child has different needs that we as adults need to provide for. We just need to identify what that need is, be is a 200 or 250++ student.

By the way, if your child is 250++ and consistently scoring 32 and above for compo, use this to teach him about alternate plots and twists https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gksxu-yeWcU. It should be able to spice up their stories to push for 36++. Also less dry than going for some creative writing course.

Nebbermind\" post_id=\"1921871\" time=\"1563868686\" user_id=\"15571:

but there's nothing we can do about it...except to pray you are not the sway one that come after the last kid

As a teacher, I would like to tell all parents here, once you're placing so much emphasis on grades and T score counting, you have already lost. Not that grades are not important. Grades should only be used as feedback to help our children improve themselves. Also, if you spent less time counting T scores and use this few extra hours to think about how to create a more ideal environment (like specific positive praise, or rethinking achievable goals for your child to aspire towards) for your child to feel more motivated and confident, I assure you that you return on investment of time would be way higher.

Seeing grades as the most important outcome places our children in the wrong perspective.

1)They become result-oriented vs process-oriented and the process is so important in education.

2) They study instead of learn. How many times has your child told you they have already forgotten most of the things they've studied once the exam is over?

3) They are afraid of making mistakes. I could write a whole thesis on this but in summary, creativity dies here. Self-motivation dies here (by the way, presents to reward good grades don't work). Confidence dies here. Things get worse if you scold them for making mistakes.

4) growth mindset vs fixed mindset. https://www.developgoodhabits.com/fixed-mindset-vs-growth-mindset/ every parent should read this and if you meet teachers who tell you grades are the most important, it is because their principals are pressing them for KPI and because of KPI, not all teachers would do the \"right\" thing. I have a kid who scores 80+ regularly when she first joined me but doesn't know what a noun or a verb is. This is because teachers just drill the kids over and over again until they know the answer but they don't know why that is the answer. How many times has your kid told you \"it sounds right so I chose it\". That is a recipe for disaster.

I feel that the education system is funneling all of us down the wrong path of raising our children which was why I left recently to start up a community in hopes of educating everyone my perspectives on parenting because I've been hearing too many similar complaints during Parent-Teacher Conferences regarding issues of motivation, fear, etc.
You may use my classroom rules and apply them to your household. I hope this blesses all parents here and I wish that your children will grow up to be more confident and motivated adults.
https://postimg.cc/ZWpNC0tq

floppy\" post_id=\"1921838\" time=\"1563867015\" user_id=\"97579:

Arise SG\" post_id=\"1921817\" time=\"1563865482\" user_id=\"179794:[quote=\"Arise SG\" post_id=1921817 time=1563865482 user_id=179794]Thank you for the link. This would be good to show the principals. Could you also provide an official link to show that T scores are calculated to the decimals instead of anecdotal evidence?

\"What if two students have the same score?
Singapore Citizens have priority in the case of a tied score. Between two students with the same citizenship, a tie is resolved by a computerised ballot with an equal chance for each student.\"

I question this quote then. Why does MOE have to come up with this if T scores really had decimal places? In 1 of the threads here in KSP named All about T scores, parents claim up to 13 decimal places. There would be no possibility of ties in this case and thus MOE should not have needed to come up with the above quote.

From Singapore Examinations and Assessment Board (SEAB), calculating the t-score:

https://www.ifaq.gov.sg/seab/apps/fcd_faqmain.aspx?qst=hRhkP9BzcBImsx2TBbssMsxu7lqt6UJK70a1wAEVmyfdSZlp3kC3qEU1uwdD2zxBC8h26bwjs%2FIwvamUXpJQllIbGr3zfx%2Fg6R5G3kQwdaBqrmc6VVtGVreSd34s3fzQd2XjpEaXHjFH9k4Aky4ad22Tv9ZVP3e82AhV2YIeMwaGIBKFIrvh5zfUcyEdjkBGvw8b%2Bh1woqMmu1%2FCwl6UK4xSGccfs%2FuC2rGMLPsW7lE%3D#FAQ_93277?

For standard subjects, we apply the following formula:

http://www.ifaq.gov.sg/SEAB/apps/GetImage.aspx?id=a6edbc05-f38f-42c3-8a68-3b5801540a4d\">

where x is the candidate’s mark for the subject Q
m is the average mark (mean) scored by all the candidates
s is the spread of the marks around the average mark (standard deviation)

I don't know what's the number of decimal places used but it's not possible to get a rounded t-score mathematically unless we round up / down the number.

But whatever it is, RANK CHOICE DOES NOT MATTER [/quote]

Actually, as teachers, we present this yearly to the parents of the P6 cohort and yes I understand that using that formula, T score cannot be a rounded number. I am with you regarding \"merit over choice\".

However, whether students are ranked based on their T scores with decimals or without is still up for contention and I doubt MOE would actually release any information regarding this. Which means that our previous examples wouldn't stand because there were no decimals to begin with. Otherwise, the quote taken from the link I provided from MOE wouldn't make sense because centralised balloting with equal chance for students with tied scores won't even be needed. just rank accordingly with T score to the xth decimal.

Thank you for the link. This would be good to show the principals. Could you also provide an official link to show that T scores are calculated to the decimals instead of anecdotal evidence?


"What if two students have the same score?
Singapore Citizens have priority in the case of a tied score. Between two students with the same citizenship, a tie is resolved by a computerised ballot with an equal chance for each student."

I question this quote then. Why does MOE have to come up with this if T scores really had decimal places? In 1 of the threads here in KSP named All about T scores, parents claim up to 13 decimal places. There would be no possibility of ties in this case and thus MOE should not have needed to come up with the above quote.

floppy\" post_id=\"1921449\" time=\"1563780280\" user_id=\"97579:

AriseSG\" post_id=\"1921443\" time=\"1563779546\" user_id=\"179403:[quote=AriseSG post_id=1921443 time=1563779546 user_id=179403]Do note that if you apply ambitiously and miss, you may be placed behind in terms of ranking as compared to another student who has applied conservatively.

Assume you miss your top 2 choices and your T score is 230. Another student's 1st choice school is the same as your 3rd choice school and he also got 230, he will enter first. If enough of such situations occur to fill up the spaces of that school, you might even miss out on your 3rd choice. Generally, as a simple guide, COP doesn't change much from year to year because the bell curve is generally similar ( this is especially so for top schools)

This is not true. There has always been misconception every year by parents every year. Under current system, entry to secondary school is by merit (t-score) first, choice matters very little.

For example,
1. Student A - PSLE t-score 230, Student B - PSLE t-score 230
2. School C - COP 230
3. Student A - 3rd choice (and can't qualify for the first 2 choices), Student B - 1st choice
Student A will still get ahead if his t-score is higher than Student B. What you see in item 1., is a rounded figure, there are decimals behind the t-score which comes into play in such a tie. Hence, if Student A real t-score is 230.4 and Student B t-score is 230.1, Student A will always be posted to School C ahead of Student B regardless of the choice.

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"1921446\" time=\"1563779875\" user_id=\"43981:

See above.

I am not sure where you are getting this information from. This has been openly discussed in our school contact time with our principals last year that when there is a tie, choice comes first.

If you wanted to use 230.4 vs 230.1 it's no longer a tie, isn't it?

so yes if a student's T score is 230.4 he will get his place in XYZ school ahead of another student with 230.1

floppy\" post_id=\"1921449\" time=\"1563780280\" user_id=\"97579:

AriseSG\" post_id=\"1921443\" time=\"1563779546\" user_id=\"179403:[quote=AriseSG post_id=1921443 time=1563779546 user_id=179403]Do note that if you apply ambitiously and miss, you may be placed behind in terms of ranking as compared to another student who has applied conservatively.

Assume you miss your top 2 choices and your T score is 230. Another student's 1st choice school is the same as your 3rd choice school and he also got 230, he will enter first. If enough of such situations occur to fill up the spaces of that school, you might even miss out on your 3rd choice. Generally, as a simple guide, COP doesn't change much from year to year because the bell curve is generally similar ( this is especially so for top schools)

This is not true. There has always been misconception every year by parents every year. Under current system, entry to secondary school is by merit (t-score) first, choice matters very little.

For example,
1. Student A - PSLE t-score 230, Student B - PSLE t-score 230
2. School C - COP 230
3. Student A - 3rd choice (and can't qualify for the first 2 choices), Student B - 1st choice
Student A will still get ahead if his t-score is higher than Student B. What you see in item 1., is a rounded figure, there are decimals behind the t-score which comes into play in such a tie. Hence, if Student A real t-score is 230.4 and Student B t-score is 230.1, Student A will always be posted to School C ahead of Student B regardless of the choice.

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"1921446\" time=\"1563779875\" user_id=\"43981:

See above.

I am not sure where you are getting this information from. This has been openly discussed in our school contact time with our principals last year that when there is a tie, choice comes first.

If you wanted to use 230.4 vs 230.1 it's no longer a tie, isn't it?

so yes it a student's T score is 230.4 he will get his place in XYZ school ahead of another student with 230.1

floppy\" post_id=\"1921449\" time=\"1563780280\" user_id=\"97579:

AriseSG\" post_id=\"1921443\" time=\"1563779546\" user_id=\"179403:[quote=AriseSG post_id=1921443 time=1563779546 user_id=179403]Do note that if you apply ambitiously and miss, you may be placed behind in terms of ranking as compared to another student who has applied conservatively.

Assume you miss your top 2 choices and your T score is 230. Another student's 1st choice school is the same as your 3rd choice school and he also got 230, he will enter first. If enough of such situations occur to fill up the spaces of that school, you might even miss out on your 3rd choice. Generally, as a simple guide, COP doesn't change much from year to year because the bell curve is generally similar ( this is especially so for top schools)

This is not true. There has always been misconception every year by parents every year. Under current system, entry to secondary school is by merit (t-score) first, choice matters very little.

For example,
1. Student A - PSLE t-score 230, Student B - PSLE t-score 230
2. School C - COP 230
3. Student A - 3rd choice (and can't qualify for the first 2 choices), Student B - 1st choice
Student A will still get ahead if his t-score is higher than Student B. What you see in item 1., is a rounded figure, there are decimals behind the t-score which comes into play in such a tie. Hence, if Student A real t-score is 230.4 and Student B t-score is 230.1, Student A will always be posted to School C ahead of Student B regardless of the choice.

MrsKiasu\" post_id=\"1921446\" time=\"1563779875\" user_id=\"43981:

See above.

I am not sure where you are getting this information from. This has been openly discussed in our school contact time with our principals last year that when there is a tie, choice comes first.

If you wanted to use 230.4 vs 230.1 it's no longer a tie, isn't it?

so yes it a student's T score is 230.4 he will get his place in XYZ school ahead of another student with 230.1