Not agreeing means beyond reasons…lol
Posts made by Cloud Cloud
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RE: Elections 2020 announced
Those retrenched can comfort themselves that they are a victim of economy… not because of FTs.
Be resilient…look for alternative jobs like driver or delivery man to put food on the table. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
tankee\" post_id=\"1984948\" time=\"1594298357\" user_id=\"6927:
Sorry, just saw your post. Ok, as I have made my point.
@Cloud Cloud and @Esteema
Let's change topic before emotions get in way. Quite obvious will not be able to convince each other.
Please? -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984943\" time=\"1594297840\" user_id=\"66413:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984934\" time=\"1594295271\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984934 time=1594295271 user_id=160688]
针不扎肉不觉疼 ? WE in Singapore are not out of the global system nor the only one suffering. Don’t think u can ustand or accept right?
You’re in no position to judge. I’ve faced 3 crisises & job looses in my lifetime. I’m resilient despite faced with aberration of the changing job mkt. Obviously, you do not ustand. Nobody can help u u’stand if u don’t trust what we share with u here, besides myself. I now can imagine the angst of our govt trying to do their level best yet gets misu’stood. Sigh!You have suffered job losses and still take this position...aiyo...I am speechless. I think you have forgotten how it hurts. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984941\" time=\"1594297483\" user_id=\"66413:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984926\" time=\"1594293856\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984926 time=1594293856 user_id=160688]
It’s hard for me to repeat my points. Maybe read them again? Owise, it’s OK. Won’t want to go on punishing others with my inability to make myself clearer than I have. Need bzmen to explain their need for managing their bz cost & the effects of S & DD & willingness to take on PMETs openings. I’m not the right person here.Oh... spare me the agony to go through your posts...If managing business cost is the reason for passing over Singaporeans for foreigners...this is very sad. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Grandypa\" post_id=\"1984927\" time=\"1594294040\" user_id=\"154562:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984919\" time=\"1594292382\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984919 time=1594292382 user_id=160688]
Its ok, she wont understand until she got retrenched and feels the pain of The FTs taking over her jobHaizz...针不扎肉不觉疼 -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984921\" time=\"1594292861\" user_id=\"66413:
You claimed that many times company are not able to hire Singaporeans but we still hear of jobless PMETs. Umm...Something is wrong somewhere...
I need to learn fr you how shld we prioritize jobs for “our own countrymen” that the current requirements for companies to prove they’ve made efforts to give that priority in their detach process. I’ve shared with u even when I had the opportunity to help companies to head-hunt with key roles, we cldnt find many willing to leave their creature comforts. My frd’s husband had many times tried to offer first attention to interview SC but it wasn’t to be.Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984919\" time=\"1594292382\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984919 time=1594292382 user_id=160688]
I repeat. I am not saying we close door or stop FTs totally. I am just saying that we prioritise our own countrymen. Do you get it?
Pls pray tell us how to pin the eyers better? We can learn from you? Will greatly appreciate. We shld offer our best effort to turn this ard.[/quote]
I am not in a position to prescribe the solutions. But as a fellow citizen, I am just voicing out my concerns.
On hind side, how did we even come to this stage where we need companies to justify... and still have jobless PMETs. Maybe some of you are right, these PMETs just prefer to work as drivers or delivery men...instead of white collar workers. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984915\" time=\"1594290574\" user_id=\"66413:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984907\" time=\"1594289365\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984907 time=1594289365 user_id=160688]
I feel for everyone who has been affected too. But my compassion cannot be misplaced.
Maybe I shld provide that alternative - stop the FT fr taking our jobs, close doors to issuance of EPs. Do u think there’ll not be backlash? Maybe we shld just close our economic doors.
I’m beginning to doubt my communication skills & maybe I just lost it to senility. It’s OK.I repeat. I am not saying we close door or stop FTs totally. I am just saying that we prioritise our own countrymen. Do you get it? -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984894\" time=\"1594286906\" user_id=\"66413:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984879\" time=\"1594284135\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984879 time=1594284135 user_id=160688]
Isn’t it clear to you what I’m trying to say?
将心比心
You cannot stop the global movement of bz, ppl & jobs. So why gribe? DD & SS is the order of a free mkt.You are the one who is not clear. We cannot stop the movement but we can stop foreigners taking over our jobs.
将心比心 I feel for my fellow Singaporeans who have been affected. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984835\" time=\"1594274831\" user_id=\"66413:
Read your second last sentence.
I said Sporeans going overseas to take jobs are gribed by those locals THERE to hv taken their jobs facing discrimination in those countries -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984824\" time=\"1594272744\" user_id=\"66413:
I am not saying no totally to FTs. Even China needs some FTs. But FTs doing the jobs that Singaporeans can and want to do. Definitely no.
The wheels hv started started rolling years ago. In this COVID crisis, I certainly hope more will turn ard to change themselves & recognize how a not so simple virus change change our attitudes towards so many things - consumerism, environment care, family time, efficiency & productivity ....Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984815\" time=\"1594270420\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984815 time=1594270420 user_id=160688]
Don’t generalise. Not all Singaporeans are like what you have described.
Between a less ideal job and being jobless, the choice is obvious. Especially for mid careers that have heavy financial commitments.
Even willing, they are passed over for foreigners. I really feel for my follow Singaporeans.
Only the most resilient will survive. We can blame the govt, the system, eyers, FT, whatever. Reality is whilst we’re deliberating here, many are out making comebacks. China is currently working hard to bounce back its economy, Vietnam is tinkering hard in projects they love secured fr low hanging fruits, S Korea is stepping up its exports & sans 2nd wave working very hard to keep up with their economy.
Our forefathers has weathered thro Jap world war taking any available hard labour; the communist unrest & rioting days; the Regional economic downturn I rmbr I had to catch the only well paying job to go regional for my company to survive in Spore leaving my elderly mum alone whom I constantly worry for her wellbeing; the SARS, where my husband was lockdown and communication was not as instant then compared to what we hv today.
When I did helped my ex-boss run his head-hunting consultancy, we had many orders FD MNCs looking for trusted Sporeans to relocate to China & Taiwan. Result? Very few wants to leave their comfort zone. We cld only fulfil a small handful of those plum plant manager, Director, managerial & executive positions. Mind you, many comes with fat expat package, Int’l schooling thrown in.
Recognized that they are many FT alr lost their jobs. This is unprecedented times. It’s tough when families hv lots of commitments. It is tough, trust me I’ve been there as a sole breadwinner then. But I’ve friends who helped me through my dark days. So, during hard times like these, the human spirit is best uplifted with looking to extend a help to those who suffer ard us to give them that extra reason to fight to live ano day.
The world has gone very global, mkts move where they find a niche to operate & ppl becomes highly mobile for a better piece of meat. Every country uses some form of FT. So savvy & highly mobile Sporeans gone for lucrative jobs in UK, US, China & elsewhere. They’re the very FT we are trying to ‘fight’ for taking our jobs. I’m very darn sure they face discrimination fr their host country for taking their jobs.[/quote]
I am proud of my follow Singaporeans that can find a niche overseas and I don’t think they are the ones competing for our local jobs. In fact they are freeing up jobs for their follow Singaporeans which unfortunately goes to foreigners. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984808\" time=\"1594268392\" user_id=\"66413:
Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984777\" time=\"1594259299\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984777 time=1594259299 user_id=160688]
You’ve missed the point again.
Manpower cost :-
Local - high salary, better benefits, no long hours, don’t eat into my personal time
FT - anything will take the job, thank you for chance to EP, maybe consider apply PR after chock enuf time. Willing to work for a better position if Sporeans move out, long hours no problem just hv my annual leave to visit my family, ya pls help send me for more certification courses & pay for my exams (inaudible to eyers:then I can get that smart aleck Sporean’s job.)
Pls make no mistake, it irks me to hv to struggle disciphering accents foreign to me, the good attitudes at work immediately turn in haughtiness at MRTs & those littering & spitting (I witnessed one & told him off). Reality of eyers’ choice or shld I say not a choice rendered by Sporeans who wld not take a REALISTIC to his bz costs. The choice of pressing down expectations for higher pay fr their Sporeans applicants. It is bcoz of this higher pay (not at all low salary) that FTs are attracted.
Again, will the govt withhold issuing EPs? They’re alr doing quotas but how effective can that be? There’ll lots of creative ways to circumvent every rule if ppl are bent on breaking laws ‘legally’. Heard of phantom eyers?
My husband and family after discovering their uncles pretext of sharing some company profits with his family of 7 siblings of his generation giving monthly funds of mere $1,500 each, rejected his ‘contribution’ & refused his pek kim for FIL’s funeral coz they just didn’t want him to take advantage of their parents’ ignorance using their I/C to increase his local headcount. That’s cheap cheat!
But u see, for every person who wld chase that $1,500 as cheap, there’ll be ppl valuing that as oil for life to help u u’stand every individual perception of value of a job.
Btw, I’m watching TOP GLOVE founder, company growing to aim to be Fortune 500 company situated in KL, employs 50% FT.
Hope you don’t get the msg wrong this time.Don’t generalise. Not all Singaporeans are like what you have described.
Between a less ideal job and being jobless, the choice is obvious. Especially for mid careers that have heavy financial commitments.
Even willing, they are passed over for foreigners. I really feel for my follow Singaporeans. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Hendon\" post_id=\"1984758\" time=\"1594250345\" user_id=\"142376:
In 2011, a younger colleague shared that he did not manage to get a bto after more than 10 applications. In the end, he bought a resale.
Sigh.... double sigh for Singaporeans who miss the point especially HRMs.
Need I remind all that it was following the 2011 GE, when Aljunied GRC was lost to WP, and where immigration and housing were the main grievances, that in 2013, MOM finally put into place measures to give priority to Singaporeans when it came to hiring.
It was also in 2012 that absolute priority was given to Singapore Citizens in P1 balloting.
Your vote matters!
While HRMs fill positions, the bigger picture is that FT hires FT if not for restrictions. Businesses focuses on profits, the govt should not be run like a business and lose sight of Singaporeans.
As for PMETs making a living as delivery riders or grab drivers, stop looking at the headlines, and wonder what is the average take home pay and how many hours is actually needed to make even a fraction of the PMET salary, and all without medical insurance, and white collar benefits. Even better, go do it yourself before you end up where the current PMETs are now and years later regretting your vote, while the next generation do the practical thing and vote the incumbent in at your expense. The cycle repeats until you do something about it.
Your vote matters!
If not for the 2011 election outcome, many changes would not have been made. Some changes although late is better than never. But more can be done for Singaporeans... -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984765\" time=\"1594254257\" user_id=\"66413:
@ Cloud Cloud
It’s a DD & SS thing in a free mkt unless you want Spore to go back where China was - locked out of the world & ingrown.
Sporean eyers truly wants to employ Sporeans, but the attitudes of “I can find better job elsewhere“ & if we go on being choosy in a situation like current, mark my work, we’ll be outpace even by Vietnam soon. During this COVID, Vietnam is well positioned to pick the low hanging fruits for good projects whilst China & US cur each other out. It is exactly coz Sporeans are choosy, we think too highly of ourselves hence allowing jobs to flow over to FT. The bz that hire them hv little choice if their operations hv to go on. And these are your fellow Singaporeans operating some of these businesses. Every bz exists to profit in the best way they can find & reducing manpower costs is key besides high rental costs. It’s the reality of life. If the govt nanny into micro-managing companies with law, we will not hv many Sporean companies & we essentially snub the spirit of Struggling new entrepreneurs.
Reply: Agree that businesses exist to make money.
Precisely because businesses focus on profits that we need to control employment of foreigners who can accept lower pay.
As for our local entrepreneurs, there are already many government schemes to help them.
The other scenario is we’ve to humble ourselves & accept we’re small & without natural resources. We still hv many foreign investments. In a pandemic situation, they can do anything to our local jobs. They simply move us out & send their almost jobless fellowmen over to handle their companies. It has happened in big banks with HK staff sent over, it has happened to big oil companies with British personnel taking over reins of various depts. These, you can’t control coz it is not a Spore company, you either get a few Sporeans retrenched so they take over, or they pull out of your country & more will loose their jobs.
Reply: Lower manpower cost is not the reason they are here. We are not known for that. They are here for other reasons. Good logistics and legal framework, lowers tax rates?? Just not lower manpower costs. If they need to retrench Singaporean staff to survive, then I think they are in the wrong place.
I rmbr Lucas Chow had deliberated over how to keep TCS (pre-MediaCorp) survival & fr shutting down & how to keep his ppl fr loosing jobs. He was blessed with a good heart for ppl’s livelihood but if the eyees do not cooperate & humble themselves to unitedly take pay cuts, retrenchment is imminent.
This is a pandemic, it’s not just abt Spore, everywhere ard the world bz & jobs are lost. My advice to the young graduate or mid-life PMETs who lost their jobs is to grab jobs out there, secure a place in the workforce & those FTs will not hv a first pick. Ultimately, foreign companies will hv to relook are their expat costs & then our locals can ease into those jobs. In a free mkt, the early bird gets it; the first movers secured a place. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
You shld read what pirate shared before your post. It’s all that I’ve seen during my regional work in Asia & what I experienced with my relatives, frd’s and PRC neighbours. You’ll be surprised how proud mainland Chinese are today & they’ve the hunger to be the world best.
Reply: Singaporeans also want to be the best but they must be given the chance, especially in their own country. I have faith in my own people.
It is good that LKY established good & strong relationships with Chinese top leaders & pass the baton to this generation of leaders.
They’re very advanced now. We’ll be ashamed for the loss chance if we don’t engage them in bz opportunities.
Reply : Prioritising Singaporeans for jobs does not equate to not doing business with China.
Nobody owes us a living if there are PMET jobs & Sporeans show their attitudes & are choosy for higher pay, for convenience, for more perks. It is true what Cartier shared in earlier post @ page 57, how Sporeans are choosy & we get more FTs willing to take these jobs & willing to work long hours. When I was looking for a Fortune 500 company, Sporeans were choosy as early as the 80s, but numbers were not abhorring. By the 1990s & 2000s, my staff had a hard time throwing piles of applications fr foreigners aside & only carry a very minute few Sporean applicants for engineers, Finance, IT analyst, non for Coders. Then other issues cropped up where a FT values the opportunities & cooperate well, I caught young fellows (Sporean) using office time to play the stock mkt, printing tons of materials unrelated to work, etc. When getting staff to keep up with their Certification, the PRCs & CECAs are ever ready but our Sporean guys just find it eating into their time, believing their current knowledge & skills are superb for the current job. How will the company compete & progress? Just boils down to attitudes.
Reply : I have seen these lousy attitudes you talked about in foreigners in my workplace. Our people really so bad meh?
Not everything is attributed to FT’s fault. What fault if I can’t deliver my HR role to present qualified Sporean candidates for my depts & they can’t operate if there’s none to produce after interviewing & Sporeans turn them down or those many who took the offer & put in resignations to join ano higher pay job. The cost of hiring is very high. But hiring FTs, we reduce turnover costs & get more stability for its tougher for them to job hop for fear of not getting EPs approved.
Reply : You just shared on why foreigners are preferred over locals.
Reality on the ground. -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984735\" time=\"1594215063\" user_id=\"66413:
Despite the many sacrifices and higher costs, If they still chose to work here, they must have their reasons. I have PRC relatives who have been here for more than a decade, told me they still plan to retire in China.
Unless they become PRs or naturalize, they’ve high cost living here as they’ve to pay rent to those of u who are landlords, pay much higher sch fees, pay same daily living costs (Same complain if not more coz if they’re back home cheaper or they’ve land to grow their own) .... They’ve to pay tax for income they earn here, deducted at source (they can’t claim spent all nothing to pay us). There are other hidden costs when they leave home & families (u know those parents, wife & kids homesicknesses). 将心比心, I've struggles many lonely moments & hv to watch myself in a foreign land. It’s also just not the same without cockles & boodles & gainers chicken rice tastes different lah (Same issues when FWs where ‘lockdown’).[/quote]Cloud Cloud\" post_id=\"1984705\" time=\"1594207876\" user_id=\"160688:[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984705 time=1594207876 user_id=160688]There are reasons we can never match the lower asking pay of some FTs. Singapore has much higher living costs and we also need to save for our retirement whereas these FTs can retire in their home country comfortably with their Sing dollars. This is exactly the crux of the issue. We are priced out by foreigners in our own country. Then, we are asked to retrain and even then does not guarantee us a job. Many in their 40s and 50s also need to support their parents’ retirement. How to accept lower pay?
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RE: Elections 2020 announced
Estéema\" post_id=\"1984746\" time=\"1594225809\" user_id=\"66413:
I know many took up food delivery with PandaFood, Grabfood, etc coz somehow if they managed to make more trips, it was reported they can earn at least $6K a month. Why not?
True. For every S$1 a Malaysian earns in Singapore, he gets to spend RM3 back home. All they need is a motorcycle or bus or wake up earlier to commute on a daily basis from Johor.lee_yl\" post_id=\"1984742\" time=\"1594222097\" user_id=\"17023:
[quote=\"Cloud Cloud\" post_id=1984705 time=1594207876 user_id=160688]There are reasons we can never match the lower asking pay of some FTs. Singapore has much higher living costs and we also need to save for our retirement whereas these FTs can retire in their home country comfortably with their Sing dollars. This is exactly the crux of the issue. We are priced out by foreigners in our own country. Then, we are asked to retrain and even then does not guarantee us a job. Many in their 40s and 50s also need to support their parents’ retirement. How to accept lower pay?
Among the 40s-50s, a lot of PMETs have been badly hit, many become Grab drivers. Why are so many Singaporeans food delivery workers, which honestly, is a dead end job that has no progression. Are all these Singaporeans under-employed?
Opportunities are found in the most unlikely situation coz PMETs think those jobs are hopeless, but for one group of our population it’s great opportunities.[/quote]So sad...our people doing delivery jobs while foreigners taking over PMETs jobs...Progression or Regression? :roll: -
RE: Elections 2020 announced
There are reasons we can never match the lower asking pay of some FTs. Singapore has much higher living costs and we also need to save for our retirement whereas these FTs can retire in their home country comfortably with their Sing dollars. This is exactly the crux of the issue. We are priced out by foreigners in our own country. Then, we are asked to retrain and even then does not guarantee us a job. Many in their 40s and 50s also need to support their parents’ retirement. How to accept lower pay?
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RE: Elections 2020 announced
I am saddened by the fact that despite our world class Uni, we still claimed that we need FTs to attract investments and help create jobs for locals? Means what? Our Uni not producing graduates with the right skillsets?
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RE: Assessment Books for Math & English & Chinese
lostkitty\" post_id=\"1984539\" time=\"1594175931\" user_id=\"125659:
For English, I like the books by Casco. Especially their comprehension passages, many good phrases that my child can also use for compo.
Hi parents, can anyone suggest a good assessment books/any online reference to check on my DD learning progress?
Thanks in advance.