limlim:

GinMocca:

[quote=\"limlim\"]

Subsidized or not, it is still a non commercial entity, which is the key point bought up in MotherHen's post. And I was replying to her post.

Unless she wants to edit her post and say \"charging for parking feels wrong because it is a non-commercial and is not like subsidized HDB entity\". lol..It's not a simple case of being non-commercial, you must put in all the caveats if you want to use that in your line of argument.

Nope. Because you cited an irrevelant example:HDB which we call know is heavily subsidized housing.

Do you ever seen pte housing owners ( which are non-subsidized) having to pay for parking when they park in their own house ? These are non-commercial bldg, right ?

You park your car in your own house, nobody will charge you for parking. Private house are called private properties because they own/leased the land they sit on.

.[/quote]You cannot keep shifting the goal posts. Your definition is non-commercial. Pte houses are non-commercial and I do not pay parking whether I park inside the house or just outside the house ( where the land does not belong to me)

limlim:

Subsidized or not, it is still a non commercial entity, which is the key point bought up in MotherHen's post. And I was replying to her post.

Unless she wants to edit her post and say \"charging for parking feels wrong because it is a non-commercial and is not like subsidized HDB entity\". lol..It's not a simple case of being non-commercial, you must put in all the caveats if you want to use that in your line of argument.

Nope. Because you cited an irrevelant example:HDB which we call know is heavily subsidized housing.

Do you ever seen pte housing owners ( which are non-subsidized) having to pay for parking when they park in their own house ? These are non-commercial bldg, right ?

limlim:

GinMocca:

No. I am saying HDB dwellers are already heavily subsidised in flat costs, constituency charges, gst e.t.c. There should not be subsidies anymore for parking. The word is subsidy

Refer to MotherHen's post. She say she is upset about the parking charges because school is not a commercial entity.

I just want to say, charging for parking has nothing to do with whether it is a commercial entity.

You comment is totally irrelevant to the point of discussion, which is about commercial entity and not subsidy.

Or you want to talk about non-driving teachers subsidizing the luxury of teachers who drive? Since you are the one who bought up the topic of subsidy again which some of us is trying to avoid.. :evil:

the example you brought up is irrelevant as it is subsidized housing and thus there is no justification for it to enjoy free parking anymore. It is not a neutral example

limlim:

So in essence you acknowledged that by not a commercial entity, it doesn't mean that one should not be charged for parking, since the keyword is commercial entity.

To put it in another way, it does not have to be a commercial entity to charge for parking. So paying for parking has nothing to do with being commercial or not.

No. I am saying HDB dwellers are already heavily subsidised in flat costs, constituency charges, gst e.t.c. There should not be subsidies anymore for parking. The word is subsidy

limlim:

MotherHen:

I am uncomfortable simply because I have never perceived the school to be a commercial entity or commercial building. Yes, it is State land, granted to build a place where people come to learn and grow. There are no commercial outfits like restaurants in schools to generate profit, and in fact our children do not even pay school fees. So I've never thought of parking as a \"privilege\" for teachers. In fact, I do not even think of it as \"free\" and in association, as a hidden benefit in teachers' wages. So, I suppose I am just a bit sad that we are attaching a monetary value to everything.

Is HDB housing a commercial entity? Why do residents need to pay for parking in HDB carpark?

.

Because it is subsidized housing by the government and you already enjoys many subsidies in in a HDB flat that private dwellers do not.

limlim:

GinMocca:

[quote=\"limlim\"]

What you mentioned is examples of team players voluntarily coming together to do the necessary. It is common in any organisation.
.

So any additional activites that is done by teachers can be construed as voluntarily ? I think not.

If you students gets injured and you need to accompany him to the hospital - is that voluntarily or required ?
If you students are not keeping up with the lessons and you gave him extra coaching after school hours - is that voluntarily or required ?
If you need to accompany your students to overseas trip during your december holidays - is that voluntarily or required ?

there are many many more such examples.

That is job responsibility. And that is not menial task like sweeping the floor or arranging chairs. Looking after students requires a committed professional.

Guess you are totally off the point. Are you saying teachers are forced to sweep the floor or are you not? what is your point actually? It doesn't seems to related to the context of discussion.[/quote]I am just writing to your point that \"additional activities\" that are done by teachers are \"voluntary\" which is not the case for many examples that I have cited above

limlim:

What you mentioned is examples of team players voluntarily coming together to do the necessary. It is common in any organisation.
.

So any additional activites that is done by teachers can be construed as voluntarily ? I think not.

If you students gets injured and you need to accompany him to the hospital - is that voluntarily or required ?
If you students are not keeping up with the lessons and you gave him extra coaching after school hours - is that voluntarily or required ?
If you need to accompany your students to overseas trip during your december holidays - is that voluntarily or required ?

there are many many more such examples.

limlim:

MOE ask teachers to wash coffee cups or sweep the floor? Be sensible in your arguments. Even for CCAs, often they task students to do the menial jobs like arranging CCA equipment etc..

In an school event that I have attended, I do see a couple of teachers helped stacked up the chairs after the event. One even took a broom and swept the floor as well. So a teacher does also perform such menial tasks.

Zeit:

Only for ThomasEnglish's info/consideration, if he wishes to escalate his grievances to his Admin/HR.

(NB: The rest need not respond to my post. This is to keep this thread civil and constructive, thank you!

(1) Overtime Payment

If teachers feel underpaid and wish to seek Overtime payment for staying back late in school, do understand that http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/hours-of-work-overtime-and-rest-days.

(2) Transport claims for OT

As for whether they can claim for taxi for working OT (legitimate official duties) in school, please check with own MOE HR for eligibility.

I know many junior-mid staff have no time to log in to intranet to claim, paste the taxi receipts and label them chronologically for supervisor, HR/Finance to clear. So they just forget about small petty claims altogether as it make them seem very 'ngeow'.

Moreover, most government agencies are accessible by MRT, so it's really hard to justify for taxi or private car mileage claims. For instance, if my school is in Ang Mo Kio, HR will say I can take train from AMK MRT to Holland Village or Commonwealth MRT where Civil Service College is. Or to Buona Vista MRT where MOE HQ is.

(3) Corporate Card Programmes

There's a VITAL corporate credit card for civil servants to use whenever they go on official business trips, buy stationery & office supplies, or need to foot entertainment bills when hosting official delegates. This is good because it's paperless and no employee can enjoy any rebates or rewards tied to their private credit card when they pay out-of-pocket.

https://www.vital.gov.sg/newsarticles_13122013.html

I wonder if teachers are drawing this Corporate Procurement Card out from General Office to purchase CCA snacks for pupils now?

(4) Corporate Transport Card?

Perhaps they can invent another Corporate Transport Card (in the form of IU cash card or MRT ezlink card) for staff who need to travel to somewhere for official meetings?

Or maybe MOE HQ to issue attendees with a complimentary parking coupon after each meeting?

(5) Wage increment

Some affected teachers want a wage increment, but I suspect it'll take a while as the last major adjustment was in 2015.

All the best!

If this is only for ThomasEnglish and you do not want anyone of us to reply to it, you should have send it as a private message to him.

Why post it here then?

It’s a real eye-opener to see how some parents thinks they know the entire works of what a teacher does when he/she has only attended learning journeys or received unmarked papers from the school…