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    1. Home
    2. Melodies
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    M
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    Recent Best Controversial
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      cherryc:
      pirate:

      [quote=\"him4mixer\"]The new ‘A’ level examination started in 2006 with the introduction of H1, H2 and H3 subjects. The papers (not the MTL) btw are NO LONGER set by Cambridge!! Instead the questions are now set by MOE (through XXX branch).


      What’s the difference?

      Many of us who took the ‘A’ levels in the good ole days could do well just by constantly practice & practice TYS. It worked because many of the questions then were LOT (lower order thinking) like recap and recall. Few questions were on HOT (higher order thinking) like data analysis and application. Those who took ‘S’ paper would work on questions requiring them to synergize and extrapolate the concepts/knowledge learnt.

      Unfortunately now this is not so…

      H2 papers nowadays have literally no recap and recall questions that will favor the hardworking students. Instead the papers are filled with thinking questions where it will favor the thinking students.

      Example: I had no problem finishing 40 MCQ qns within 20 min in the old syllabus and achieve perfect score. However now even if I am to finish the MCQ paper in time (as a capacity as an experienced teacher!), I am not confident to achieve perfect score. Some of the concepts tested in the paper were what I learnt in the university, up to Masters!

      Thus the IP schools start to teach these HOT skills real early so that they will be well prepared when they come to us as JC students. Life is never fair but that’s how it works. The smart ones have now a better advantage IF they can benefit from our system.

      In other words, our non-IP secondary schools are failing to teach our students the necessary or relevant skills. Thank you very much for that enlightenment. In a nutshell, this looks like a systemic failure to me at the secondary school level. I take back what I said earlier about there being a reasonably level playing field.

      Minister Sir, are you reading this?

      Now you know why PSLE is so stressful. If your kid does not score tops enough to get into IP, they will have to go to a secondary school that will fail to teach them the required and relevant HOT skills necessary for them to prepare for the A-levels.


      I think we have more hurdles than we think we have. Anyway, thanks him4mixer for sharing! I just wonder if equipped with all these \"HOT\" skills means that the kids will do very well in university. I am puzzled cos with A levels in UK being \"easier\" than Singapore's , I wonder if it means that Singapore students will excel in UK universities or in other overseas universities. I don't think the level of difficulty (and stress) in other countries' junior or senior schools have shot up as much as ours. And also with all these desirable HOT and other skills and advanced knowledge, do they become better graduates and workers ? I check with some university lecturers , I am surprised to know that some of them are the \"old school\" types so are they able to relate to these HOT skills? In fact, in some faculties, I think the curriculum has not changed as drastically as we have changed our Pri-JC curriculum. Imagine learning advanced level of Physics up to tertiary/master degrees standard at A levels, then seriously go university to learn what ?[/quote]Ironically, our A level students have no advantage over those from other countries who learned LOT when come to the admission selection for those oversea universities though they have scored A in HOT questions which are equivalent to deg/master level! :slapshead:

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      BeContented:
      Melodies:


      CayennePepper

      R u willing to give up the few top JCs and settle with second tier JC?
      R u willing to support the idea of competing based on PSLE results for top IP schools?
      R u willing to support the idea of getting rid of DSA for GEP domains?
      R u willing to support that everyone should compete based on the same ground?

      己所不欲,勿施于人

      Hi Melodies,
      On your queries to CayennePepper, I have one more to add on.

      - R u willing to give up your DC's affiliation to a good secondary school and compete based on the same ground ie. PSLE score as other non-affiliated students?

      From what I understand, affiliated students tend to be given 10-20 advantage points.

      IMO, DSA definitely has its purpose. Just look at LimJeck, the Maths Genius. I'm sure glad he DSA and got recognized for his talent.

      As for GEP, there are some really good ones and the fact that DSA is not a guaranteed process for them, it goes to show that schools do not accept blindly. GEP kids are just like any other kids....they have ups and downs.

      While calling for the scrapping of DSA, would one impose the same standard on their own DC?
      Just look around, many die die must go to primary schools with affiliation, and many appealing after PSLE etc.
      Going by notion that DSA kids who didn't score the COP should give up.....those who didn't score should not be appealing either. Affiliation should be removed too.

      My answers already posted in my earlier post.
      As for the rest of the comments, we have also discussed extensively in the various pages and leading to no way.

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      pirate:
      him4mixer:

      The new ‘A’ level examination started in 2006 with the introduction of H1, H2 and H3 subjects. The papers (not the MTL) btw are NO LONGER set by Cambridge!! Instead the questions are now set by MOE (through XXX branch).


      What’s the difference?

      Many of us who took the ‘A’ levels in the good ole days could do well just by constantly practice & practice TYS. It worked because many of the questions then were LOT (lower order thinking) like recap and recall. Few questions were on HOT (higher order thinking) like data analysis and application. Those who took ‘S’ paper would work on questions requiring them to synergize and extrapolate the concepts/knowledge learnt.

      Unfortunately now this is not so…

      H2 papers nowadays have literally no recap and recall questions that will favor the hardworking students. Instead the papers are filled with thinking questions where it will favor the thinking students.

      Example: I had no problem finishing 40 MCQ qns within 20 min in the old syllabus and achieve perfect score. However now even if I am to finish the MCQ paper in time (as a capacity as an experienced teacher!), I am not confident to achieve perfect score. Some of the concepts tested in the paper were what I learnt in the university, up to Masters!

      Thus the IP schools start to teach these HOT skills real early so that they will be well prepared when they come to us as JC students. Life is never fair but that’s how it works. The smart ones have now a better advantage IF they can benefit from our system.

      In other words, our non-IP secondary schools are failing to teach our students the necessary or relevant skills. Thank you very much for that enlightenment. In a nutshell, this looks like a systemic failure to me at the secondary school level. I take back what I said earlier about there being a reasonably level playing field.

      Minister Sir, are you reading this?

      Now you know why PSLE is so stressful. If your kid does not score tops enough to get into IP, they will have to go to a secondary school that will fail to teach them the required and relevant HOT skills necessary for them to prepare for the A-levels.

      Not just at secondary level but also at primary level. P3 kids r now learning n doing p6 materials n doing P6 worksheet to be competitive. A level students r learning master degree stuffs? What do u want to achieve? :stupid: :mad:

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      him4mixer:
      In conclusion:


      ‘A’ level system has changed dramatically since our times. The preparation by the non-IP JC students has improved but LINEARLY. The preparation by the IP schools has improved EXPOTENTIALLY.

      I hate to say this but this system makes the smart so much smarter that it makes others look ‘stupid’.
      I was like :yikes: to learn that A level has gone up so high since 2006? Is it necessary to push our a level students to study materials that are equivalent to the master degree level? No wonder the whole nation has resorted to engage tuition n studying all the time and have no time for others? Yet all ministers kept telling us that psle is not be all and end all exam, how not to be? If don't do well in psle ,then have to take o level route n then struggle in a level? why! why? Why? MOE, please give them a life!

      I am speechless! :faint: :sad:

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      him4mixer:
      Hi,

      I'm a lecturer in one of the top JCs for many years and would like to share my observations and experiences about 3 general groups of students under me:

      1. IP students. There is a positive correlation between good PSLE results and good A level results. Majority of them who scored at >260 will tend to score at least 5 As in the 'A' level. The IP program in general teaches them important skills (like critical thinking, hypothesis testing, and data analysis) that traditional schools do not (due to preparation for O level exams). These (higher order thinking) HOT skills enable them to handle the A level exams better and thus it is no surprise these students will tend to perform better. However it is NOT 100% that once these high PSLE scorers are in IP they will perform well. I've GEP students who failed JC1 promos twice and was forced to leave school. Numerous too are those who finished JC2 without getting an A level cert.

      2. O level students. Those who took O level exam and managed to get into the school will tend to struggle in the first year. This is because they have not learnt the HOT skills and will find the questions challenging. I've students with 9A1s and school results were mediocre all the way till prelim. Only in 'A' level some managed to get their full As again.

      3. DSA students (in my personal opinion) are my worst nightmares. Many are national sports achiever but academic results were just... Every year the bottom 10 students to have a 'cup of coffee' with the principals are filled with them. Definitely there are exceptions; I've one with PLSE slightly more than 200 made it through to enroll in medicine faculty.
      Hi, Thank you for your input. Please share if GEpper are also your DSA students... as many of them didn't score 260 and above but they got in through DSA.

      Also, GEPper already have some years run-up for IP (from p3 to P6). I wonder why they still can't make it for IP since both are unstructured programs...

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      bupashu:
      wonderm:

      [quote=\"david59\"]Hmm... I chance upon this piece of news dated 1st Sept 2010 from Channelnewsasia.


      A ministry spokesperson noted that \"there is a minimum of 20 percent of JC1 places at each IP JC today set aside for O-Level students. This will be retained following the IP expansion\".

      http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1078485/1/.html

      How many JC1 students are there in each of the IP JC? Top O Level scorers have to fight for 20% of the places in these top IP JC? In other words 1 out of 5 JC 1 students in IP JC is a O Level graduate and with more JC going IP, does it mean the competition gets even keener and leaner :yikes:

      Thank goodness, one of my dds has graduated and the other one in Uni yr 2 already. :celebrate:

      Don't need to panic:
      -Total number of places in top JCs are not reducing
      -Total number of students for each cohort is not increasing over the years

      Hence, whether there is IP or not, the competition level stays about the same.

      although the situation is stable, but there are now more and more kiasu parents and more kiasu parents becoming more kiasu[/quote]Rather people are not aware of it previously!
      More and more people are aware now? I'm aware today! Thanks for the internet!

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      david59:
      Hmm... I chance upon this piece of news dated 1st Sept 2010 from Channelnewsasia.


      A ministry spokesperson noted that \"there is a minimum of 20 percent of JC1 places at each IP JC today set aside for O-Level students. This will be retained following the IP expansion\".

      http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1078485/1/.html

      How many JC1 students are there in each of the IP JC? Top O Level scorers have to fight for 20% of the places in these top IP JC? In other words 1 out of 5 JC 1 students in IP JC is a O Level graduate and with more JC going IP, does it mean the competition gets even keener and leaner :yikes:

      Thank goodness, one of my dds has graduated and the other one in Uni yr 2 already. :celebrate:
      Thank you David, you just corrected my mistake. Not 30% but only 20%.. :faint: :faint: :faint:
      90% population for 20% vacancies in those top IP JC!!!

      Now, I know why everyone is crying foul............

      Ministers, is it the level playing field you are advocating? Those late boomers, is it too bad for them to be late boomer?

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      atutor2001:
      Melodies:

      :faint: After PSLE, we are not done with it! Those late boomers can't make it for IP schools, the competition is even steeper @ O levels! :yikes:


      Anyone care to share how O level students do as compared to those IP students in A level?

      O level students can match IP students in results but usually not in \"efficiency\". They have to put in much more effort for the same results.

      I have based my comments on what my kids had told me - they have completed the process.

      Hard works pays off.
      Isn't that the value we Instill ?
      Wonder those top scorer in A levels are always from O level or IP?

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      bupashu:
      Melodies:

      [quote=\"atutor2001\"]The figure is no secret. However, you may have reservation to reveal because of .... Anyway, I remembered it is something like 400, 400, 400 for ... About 100 goes to DSA, leaving about 300 for O level results. Correct me if I am wrong. 😂


      So the ratio is 1:3 for DSA/IP versus O level students respectively in those top schools.

      DSA is <10% of total population
      O level is > 90% of total population

      >90% population is fighting for 30% vacancies in top schools!

      No wonder some think competition for O level students are :yikes: for those top schools and feel that it is unfair for those late boomers because GEPper got in the top schools through DSA and have the immunity for PSLE & O level competitions and called for getting rid of this 'immunity'.

      Did I have the whole picture now? Correct me if I got it wrong?

      why 90% ? there are those who dropped out of sec school to go ITE, or some gone to poly after O level......those we really qualified for JC is only about 20000 people out of the 38k ~ 43k PSLE cohort.

      and out of the 20,000 or so, serious contender for top JC are not many.....come on, there are plenty who score around 10 points or less....and the min criteria for JC is a super high 20 points for L1R5.....quite meaningless really .... but before any one slam me, I understand this is to give late bloomer a chance to prove themselves in JC in 2 years, and if they do well in A level, have a shot at local uni

      the system is fair....if you still need more time to prove yourselves, there are enough JC places to cater for all who qualify. if you serious want to be in top JC, then please make sure you got top grades... and any subject with A2 is less than top grades.[/quote]Though they have dropped out of sec school, they are still part of the the majority 90% . The fact is DSA < 10%.

      For those late boomer, how kind of you to give them a chance to prove themselves in JC in a mere 2 years!
      For GEPper, you gave them almost all the time (since P3 till JC) to prove themselves for a Uni place ?

      Tell me this is fair? Hahah....

      Then, why don't you also make sure those DSA kids to prove themselves that they got top grades for English with A1 in their exams.. and also A1 for other categories in their exams including CCA to retain IP status. Those failed to do so, they should give way ...
      Isn't it fair?

      Hahahaha......

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
    • RE: MOE to stop publishing names of top students?

      CayennePepper:
      Melodies:

      excellent!


      I'm glad that Singapore is a gracious society after all! :rahrah:

      You had doubts?!
      I can't think why.

      faint: I'm happy and cheering!
      You read too much out of proportion. :snuggles:

      posted in Recess Time
      M
      Melodies
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