Hi Cool Cool,


I completely understand your urgency about exposing your child to a mainstream environment. I told myself the same thing! Like your son, my girl is born in 2012. She was in childcare since 20 months old but I pulled her out just before she turned 3 so that she could attend EIPIC. The timings clashed so I had no choice but to settle only for one. Back then (this was 6 months ago), I told myself that I must send her to mainstream school again latest by the time she reaches four.

Just want to share that when she was in childcare back then and it was time for her to move up to N1, she was retained at the playgroup level due to her being non-verbal. It was the childcare centre that proposed it and I accepted their arrangement.

I have switched her to a different EIPIC (with a slightly better timing) this year and had to look for another mainstream environment that was near enough the EIPIC centre to facilitate travelling. I set out wanting to place her at one level lower than the norm. Though she has started to talk, she is still very far behind her same-age peers, especially in speech development. My experience has been this: childcare centres are fine with \"deferment\" while kindergartens are not. A kindergarten principal discouraged me from placing her in her school, saying that kindergartens are more academic in nature and because they are managed by MOE, delaying the child by one year is not encouraged (An appeal letter has to be written in to MOE, she claimed.) I finally found a suitable childcare centre for her and she is in N1 (She just started school this week ) Coincidentally, there wasn't any N2 vacancy so I settled for N1.

I hope this answers your question as to whether schools allow children to be placed in a lower level class. I know it's tough not to worry (I worry a lot too). It's good that we have this forum for support. Personally, I do agree with the rest that it's a must for your child to understand instructions well enough first. If he can't follow instructions well, there's a high likelihood that he will be left aside while the rest of the children continue with their activities. I would suggest focusing on that first (EIPIC should help with that, if not, ABA or OT). Then once your child reaches 4 this October, or 4+ at the beginning of next year, he will be better equipped for school. Jia you!

Hi Couragemom


Thanks for your reply! Ya I think i’ll send my gal for a trial class first before deciding. My gal still cannot jump. Do u think the instructors there can help in this aspect? Heh, I seem to be stinging on OT but no choice her private SLT is making me broke.

Thanks too for sharing your journey thus far. It’s good that your boy started intervention so early. Yes, my girl’s condition seems mild but the lack of speech is worrying. Due to her lack of speech, she was "retained" in playgroup in her daycare though she should be in N1 this year. So young kena retained, lol. Integrated pre-schools r too expensive to consider. Seriously very very expensive. I’ll prefer mainstream + Eipic but for now she’ll just have to do without mainstream. That’s why I’m considering Brainy Moves to let her have a chance too to interact with neurotypical peers.

Niu2009:

Hi Double E,

Considering send my son to Brainy Wave too. Is group class based on age? How long is the duration? How about teacher student ratio?

Hi Niu2009

The company's name should be Brainy Moves. Anyway I called them up to enquire cos I'm kind of interested so thought I'll share the info with you. The group class should be based on age cos the person who picked up my call asked me my gal's age. Each session is 50 mins long. Teacher student ratio is 2 instructors to 6 children. Fees are $600 for 12 sessions while reg fee is $40. They offer trial classes at $50 for a trial session.

Still thinking if I should let my girl try it out. Would 3 years old be too young? Hmmm... Any comments from mummies who have tried out Brainy Moves? Thanks!

ImMeeMee:

Seoulover

Never underestimate the gut feel of a parent. Having been on this journey for the last 5 years or so, I find that gut feel has helped me in so many occasions when there was no other thing to fall back on.

However, having said that, you may want to keep an open mind at this stage since your child has just stared EIPIC. Talk to the teachers, share your expectations and raise your concerns. The teachers and therapists are trained in special needs, and while we do not have to follow their words blindly, we can distill their strengths. It also helps that they can offer another perspective which we as parents may have missed. Every child at EIPIC center has a IEP, and this is a tool to help parents and the EIPIC team set goals for the child.

So keep the gut feel with you, but put in actions in your current situation to see how to make things work. If after trying things still dont look up, then it may be time to change. But at least when you make the change you know that you have tried.

JMHO. Hope this helps.

Hi ImMeeMee

Thanks for your advice. I'm taking it! Will continue to place my girl in EIPIC until this Nov before I review the situation. If you don't mind, can you share with me which EIPIC centre your child went to last time? Thanks.

tyeogh:

Hi Seoulover,

Eipic for aspies is an all rounded program that teaches your child to follow classroom routines at a pace they can adapt to.

If your child is well behaved enough to follow all social cues, eipic could be an over-kill. However, in the absence of speech, it is likely that she is not getting all instructions 100% right. Hence, I think eipic is useful. The smaller teacher to child ratio as compared to a daycare centre is critical.

Your concern seems to be speech and really, the challenge is to get your child to talk. If your eipic comes with ST, I suggest keeping it. Any extra time spent coaxing her to talk is beneficial. It may seem meaningless to you at first as it was to me but there is a strategy to it. The teachers will teach your child how to sit still first. When she can do that, then they will draw her attention to a toy she likes. When they manage to get her attention, they will purposely not give her the toy in order to force her to point to it. When she can point to it, they will coax her to express it in words, else no toy. The key is to get her to imitate. When she can finally imitate, speech happens.

Now, this process is a long one. Each segment can take weeks or months. For example, it took my son a month to sit still, a month a find a toy he likes, 2 months to point to it, 2 months for a desire to imitate, 2 months to mouth the word that gets him the toy, 2 months to shape the tone of that word, 2 months for more words. Fyi, my son joined eipic at 2.5 yo and had private ST too. He spoke only at 3.5 yo. By 4, he formed 3 words in a sentence.

You have to be patient. There is no special formula in eipic or ST to bring about speech. Rather, it is about breaking down each process into a smaller bite size for your child. Eipic and ST complements each other . For example, if your child is not trained to sit, cooperate and imitate, ST alone cannot bring speech out.

I am not sure how different GDD eipic is from Autism eipic but it follows the above principles, it is worthwhile keeping till the Autism eipic comes along. My doctor did advise me, if not money is not a concern, go for everything first.

Lastly, my experience in this forum is no 2 child is alike. Autism is a spectrum. What works for me may not work for you. I am just sharing my experience. You have to make that tough final call for your child.

Hi tyeogh,

Thank you for your detailed reply once again! Really appreciate it.

My gal can sit still. She can point too. Her desire to imitate is getting stronger. Upon request, she is able to pronounce some sounds but not others. She can imitate a few single words, but they are not spontaneous enough to count as talking. I guess I'll just have to be patient.

You seem to be in a dilemma about your son's education path so if u don't mind, I'll like to chip in. From your description of your son, if I were you, I will opt for pathlight foundation year. My reason is similar to what you have shared with me: a smaller teacher-student ratio can only do wonders. The high teacher-student ratio in MOE schools means that there is a limit to what the teachers there can do. However, others have pointed out that there's Learning Support Programme where the teacher-student ratio is better. I don't know much about the LSP to comment. If students are pulled out during curriculum time, fine. But if it's extra lessons after school, I would say forget it cos I feel that there's a limit to what kids can absorb especially after a long day in school.

Another reason will be that Pathlight offers mainstream education so their students do not lose out in terms of academic achievements. For your son, it just means achieving at a slower pace. I honestly think a difference of one year is no big deal. Moreover, your son is a late dec baby. The destination (PSLE for now) is still the same.

Follow your heart. Choose the option which will make both you and your child happy. I believe that if your child is happy, you will be too.

JMHO as a parent and teacher. Cheers!

Dear parents


My girl, aged 3, finally attended eipic for the first time last week. I was looking forward to it. However, after accompaniying her for the session, I didn’t feel it was helpful. I’m unsure if it’s coz she’s not in the right class. Their classes for children with ASD have been filled up so they offered me a class for children with GDD and being desperate, I took up the offer.

Why did I feel it wasn’t helpful? Well, the activities were similar to what she went through at daycare. It was her first day there and she was the best behaved child. I feel she wasn’t challenged or stretched in any way. I’m not saying that she should be throwing tantrums but my rationale is if the activities are similar, she’s better off in daycare. Besides, daycare is much more affordable. I have actually withdrawn her from daycare so that she can attend eipic as the timings clash. After attending eipic, I felt I had made the wrong choice.

I guess the eipic centre felt the class suits her because most of the kids were non-verbal just like my gal. I shall not blame the eipic centre cos each child is unique n it’s not possible for the kids in the same class to be entirely homogeneous. Yet I do feel strongly that this class does not suit my gal.

What are your experiences with eipic? I really hope I’ll not experience similar sentiments when she’s in the "right" class for children with ASD next time. I’m unsure about how I’m feeling… Am I setting the benchmarks too high or what?

Meanwhile, I think I’ll withdraw her from this class and get her back into daycare. Do u think this is the right thing to do? Any advice what else I should do while waiting for the right eipic class? My gal has been attending private speech therapy for a few months. Will she ever talk? If u know of any good speech therapist, pls recommend him/her to me. I’ll be eternally grateful. Thank you.

fluttershy:

Hi mommies, I just wanna share that my son is 3 years 2 months now and after 1 week of intensive potty training, he finally potty trained during the day (yeay, no more diapers!) :rahrah: I'm so happy that he can reach out to any adults near him and said \"pee pee\" & hold it very well until reaching the toilet. Looks like we're going to bring him to the mall/public places & teach him to generalize it everywhere. From where he is now, his behaviour consultant is positive that he will be able to do it soon :love:

Hi fluttershy,

Congrats on your child's milestone! I have to attempt potty training for my girl sooner or later (she's 3 in a few months time) so do share any tips!

I remember that u shared that your son has progressed a lot under your behavior consultant. Can u share which ABA service provider are u using? Thank you!

tyeogh:

Hi seoulover,

Happy to have helped. Many kind parents helped me here years ago so I wish to pay it forward.

I cannot tell you what to do so I will tell you what I did.

My son started AWWA EIPIC with 2 days a week. Then, they did not have a 3 days program. I wrote in to ask for more days and I believe, with similar requests from other parents, they surveyed, found their demand and organized a 3 days program the next year.

You are right about keeping the other free days to do \"homework\" on her. You can't rush such things. The only other public EIPIC I am aware of that offers 4 days is ARC. It shares the same campus with Pathlight and offers direct access into Pathlight at Primary 1. By direct, it means ARC students need not go through Pathlight assessors again since they share assessors and therefore get priority. I did apply and was offered a place in ARC. I turned it down because they did not offer a transport solution.

When my son was 2.5 y.o., he attended mainstream kindergarten in the morning. Then he goes for AWWA in the afternoon with my helper. My wife and me work, so we can't send him there.

According to his mainstream kindy teachers, he was a nightmare. They called him \"opposition party\". He wouldn't comply. Likely because he could not communicate and he wanted things his way. So he will whine, cry, bang his head on the floor etc. We insisted on keeping him at a mainstream kindergarten for the same reason your KKH OT suggested - to let him interact with NT kids. We avoided his kindy teacher each time she wanted to complain. What to do? She and her principal eventually recommended DS to stay back 1 year in Nursery level else they will refuse us a place. I readily agreed. He is now back to his age appropriate class at K2 because of his rapid progress.

On your question of a private ST, being a bona fide kiasu parent, we got him private ST at 2.5 y.o. It was a tumultuous journey. We sent him to Olive Tree at United Square. They kept changing ST. ST kept resigning after targets were set and DS got acclimatized. By the 4th ST, I gave up. Looked up Dynamics. Found that pretty German blonde's CV. She was equipped with PROMPT qualification. She taught my son well. Then, she had to go back to Germany to get married. (More of industry high turnover norm than Murphy's Law). Her replacement was an Aussie woman. She set goals that sounded more like grammar than speech. By then, I realized DS was more or less talking enough and it was not worth paying ST rates to learn grammar so I stopped it. I think DS was 4 y.o. then.

I never considered Dynamics EIPIC because I didn't think it would match up to AWWA's.

Yes, compliance was an issue I had with my son. However it should not be an issue for an experienced ST. You are right in not getting the full mileage out of each session. That's how the cookie crumbles for people like us, unfortunately. Sigh

Hi tyeogh,

Thanks for your detailed sharing about your experiences with EIPIC and ST. I actually took two weeks to come to a decision on my choice of EIPIC and feel affirmed after your sharing.

Thanks for sharing on ARC too. I've heard rave reviews on ARC and may consider switching there. Any idea if a clinical diagnosis of ASD is enough or is a psychological assessment compulsory?

I wish your boy all the best. It's heartening to know that he has progressed much.

Hi tyeogh


Thanks for your detailed sharing. Really appreciate it.

My DD had her hearing test done. Her hearing is fine. Thanks for your concern.

I’m glad to hear your positive review of AWWA. Hope I’ll experience something similar.

Now my only misgiving is will 2 to 3 days of EIPIC be enough for my DD? As the diagnosis given is GDD (though my initial suspicion was autism; anw it can’t be ruled out yet; I hope no one thinks that I’m gate crashing this thread), she’ll only qualify for 2 to 3 days of EIPIC. But I suppose I can put into practice strategies I’ve learnt on the other days. I’ve considered putting her into private EIPIC at Dynamics for about $300 more for a 5 day programme (the per hourly cost is actually lower than AWWA’s though there are other initial blood suckling charges) but the logistics will be crazy.

When your DS was 2.5 years old and attending EIPIC, did he attend any day care or play group / nursery programme? Wondering if I should cut that out to save money. Wanted to withdraw DD in Dec but KKH OT says interacting with other kids is good for her so I let her stay in daycare but cut it down to 3 days instead.

So u actually started engaging a private ST when your DS started to talk? I’ve made an appt to consult a private ST already cos I’m peeved with the super long waiting time at KKH. I hope my girl will be compliant enough otherwise it’s money going down the drain.

Hi tyeogh


My DD is due to enter EIPIC. Agree on the long waiting list of the various VWOs. As AWWA has a shorter waiting time, I’ve opted for AWWA. Didn’t know about the price increase (since I’m new), but I did a quick calculation of the costs of the various centres I’m keen on n realized that AWWA has the highest per hourly cost, in fact, higher than some private centres. Now I know why.

Mind sharing with me your opinion on AWWA’s EIPIC? Did u feel EIPIC is helpful for your DS? Did the teachers n therapists there help him to talk eventually? Or did u go for some private speech therapy? My DD is 2.5 years old n still not really talking.

And btw, if u live in the east, you may consider kids cove. I’m not sure if there’s vacancy but do call and ask. The monthly cost is cheaper (after subsidy) but they do not have in-house therapists all the time. And u have to top up for 1 to 1 therapy.

TIA!