USgrad

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Lynn2010:

USgrad:

I think the issue isn't so much whether a degree is recognized, but rather how it compares with other degrees. An NUS degree may be recognized but chances are you won't compare as favorably with a summa cum laude graduate from Harvard applying for the same job. A correspondent course or part time degree may be recognized but if you're competing against a graduate from the local uni or those who have studied on campus in a recognized overseas uni for an entry level position, chances are you'll not be viewed as favorably. Unless you have relevant or related experience such that you can bring in expertise, contacts etc that will be valuable to the company.


IMO, a part time degree from those PEIs is usually only of value if you stay within the company and they needed you to have the qualification to justify a promotion, or in very specialized areas not offered in the local unis. If you're planning to use it to apply for an entry level graduate position, it'll be tough.

Absolutely agree!!! Distant not distant doesnt matter much. Whether self study or not doesnt matter too. What if someone self study for example 6 O level subjects and gets straight As versus someone study through a very popular/good school but get As & Bs?

For O and A levels, as well as IB, you take the same exam at the same time if you're from the same country. So all that matters is the grade, which reflect comprehension and achievement.

A uni degree is different. All unis differ to some extent in terms of what is being taught, the expectation and the ease of getting an A. For uni education, the major way to learn is by interaction with faculty and peers etc, not just by self-study. Anyone can read a book and regurgitate what is found in the book in answer to question. What a uni education provides is the exchange of views and ideas, as well as debating such views and ideas. Even if the subject matter of what is taught and tested doesn't differ much amongst unis, a top uni is highly sought after because you get to interact and exchange views with the best and brighest.

There is a world of difference between a degree obtained by distance learning and on campus, and that is reflected in the job prospects, pay etc.

wonderm:

verykiasumummy:

how do u define easy to obtain?? some of the courses are assignment based, is this called easy to obtain?

No, it is hard to judge just like that. You would need to look into it deeper to make a judgement or ask around from people who are familiar with the specific field of study.

It usually takes 3 to 4 years full time to obtain a baccalaureate degree. Any degree that takes you that amount of time, or shorter, to obtain, and on a part time basis is definitely not going to be of an equivalent standard. Added to it, many of these part time courses have very low entry requirements.

Bookwrappers:

Even if ICA does recognise some uni, it doesnt mean all certs from the same uni are recognised. If u get what i mean.

You're definitely right. A degree from, say, LSE in London is definitely going to be viewed very differently from a part time degree obtained locally through a PEI or by distant learning.

I think the issue isn’t so much whether a degree is recognized, but rather how it compares with other degrees. An NUS degree may be recognized but chances are you won’t compare as favorably with a summa cum laude graduate from Harvard applying for the same job. A correspondent course or part time degree may be recognized but if you’re competing against a graduate from the local uni or those who have studied on campus in a recognized overseas uni for an entry level position, chances are you’ll not be viewed as favorably. Unless you have relevant or related experience such that you can bring in expertise, contacts etc that will be valuable to the company.


IMO, a part time degree from those PEIs is usually only of value if you stay within the company and they needed you to have the qualification to justify a promotion, or in very specialized areas not offered in the local unis. If you’re planning to use it to apply for an entry level graduate position, it’ll be tough.

verykiasu2010:

the high school diploma is awarded at the end of 6 years


middle school years are on the way to the high school

year 1 - 4 = middle school, to you perhaps

year 5 - 6 = high school / pre-university / Form 6 / senior high ..... depend where you are comparing with

Which state is that? I've never come across such a system, which sounds more like the UK and Singapore system.

Typically, for most states in US, high school / senior high is 4 years starting from Grade 9 and follow the college naming of freshmen, sophomore, junior and senior. You graduate with a high school diploma as a senior (ie 4th year or Grade 12) the year you turn 18. There is a formal graduation ceremony where the high school graduate don a gown and mortar board, much like college commencement. Most elementary school is up to Grade 5 and middle school / junior high is from Grade 6 to 8.

twilight:

I believe that is less true these days, when competition is so much stiffer in the 1st tier universities. Even though AP, IB, A levels are not mandatory, admission officers may still take into account all these. Many admission officers say they look for students who have taken the most challenging course load, so this indirectly implies that AP, IB, A levels etc are all considered.

I have several friends who have gone to university way earlier than peers. One is very gifted in physics and had applied to MIT at the age of 14, after completing the equivalent of grade 12, but was rejected. I believe MIT has had their share of child prodigies, so they shouldn't have rejected him based on his age. He did tell me the reason, but I don't feel inclined to share it here. Still, he managed to get into university at 15. Another friend went to university after O levels as well, as did her sister. She's currently in some university in Canada, studying nutrition. Not a top university, but she said that's not her priority, getting into a good university for post graduate is what's important. Another friend entered university at the age of 15 and is studying some engineering. The thing is, 2 of them are really gifted, and their IQ has been tested to be really high. The other friend, I think she is gifted as well, just probably not to the extent of prodigy, and all of them are studying something related to science, and I've not really heard of any friends gaining acceptance into US universities after O levels. I don't know where they applied to though. They could very well have only applied to the highly selective ones, of which even A level students would have small chance of getting in. I only know of one friend who studied philosophy in a US university after O levels. I think this could be because abilities in science can be more easily quantified. I'm not sure though, as I'm personally not very interested in humanities.

That said, there's really no harm trying to apply to universities. The thing is just that it's more likely that the universities will choose you, rather than you being able to choose the universities you want. Since JC starts in end January and US university offers only come in around March, unless you apply for ED, maybe she can attend JC first. If somehow she doesn't resent it, then maybe she can defer her place, or just forfeit it, if she doesn't mind applying all over again the next time. It's really a hassle to apply to US universities.[/quote]

Actually, competition for the top tier universities had always been stiff. It's just that these days, straight As are a lot more common so more straight As students get rejected. AP is different from A level of IP - like CLEP, it's taken for credit exemption by high school students in the US. That's why it's possible for the top students to complete their degree a year or 2 earlier. Taking the most challenging course load is not about A level or O level, but more about your subject combination, the number of subjects you've taken etc. For transfer students, for example, 2 students with the same GPA may be distinguished if 1 have taken mostly 100 level subjects while the other have done more upper level subjects, or 1 have done more subjects per semester.

I think there is a lot of difference between a 14 or 15 year old and someone who have completed O level after spending 4 years in a secondary school. If the O level graduate is an outstanding student, she'll likely have held substantial leadership positions. As most of the top leadership positions are given to the most senior students ie those in Sec 4, it'll be difficult for a younger student to have substantial track record for leadership. And leadership is definitely a very important consideration for most colleges.

I'm not sure how your 14 year old friend complete the equivalent of Grade 12, and if he had very good grades for all his other subjects besides physics. If his grade for other subjects are not A or equivalent, he'll definitely lose out applying to MIT who have more applicants with straight As than places. Many straight As students do get rejected by MIT even with A levels. The way Harvard or MIT define giftedness or child prodigy is quite different from the way we see it. There are not many who managed to gain entry to those universities before the age of 16. He'll probably also compare less favorably in terms of leadership and other extra-curricular achievements. If he had close to staight As, he should have a good chance of getting into other very good universities like Caltech, UCBerkeley, UMich or GaTech.

In my opinion, unless you're a child prodigy looking to do research or music, where interpersonal skills and leadership are not so important, going to college at 15 or younger is not exactly a good idea. It's not easy for you to fit in with your peers and even if they accept you as a young friend, they're not going to relate to you the way they relate to those of the same age or vote you into any leadership positions. All the more so if you're an international student and a minority. And holding leadership positions is definitely an important consideration for most employers. Also if you want to go to grad school, more so if you want a scholarship to do so.

slmkhoo:

If the child is mature and really knows what she wants to do, I can see the argument for letting her do it sooner. But I think it's a rare child who knows that at 17yo. And especially for humanities/social sciences/law subjects, maturity does count for a lot. Younger students usually don't do as well as older ones, and mature students usually do well as they can draw on experience of life as well. I think students who excel at pure sciences and maths are probably better candidates for going to unversity early.

Actually, I think most students do have a fairly good idea as to what they want to do at 17 years old. The polytechnics are a lot more specialized compared to universities and many enter at 16 or 17.

Even those who are not totally certain what they want to do, many do know the general direction they should be heading. Or at least what they definitely won't want to do. The beauty of a US education is that you spend quite some time in the first year or so on general education subjects, regardless of what you choose to major in. After the first year in college, they'll have a much better idea what they want compared to someone who is in a JC with limited exposure beyond the sciences and limited areas in humanities. And it's not difficult to change your major even after you've declared it - a physics or maths major can easily switch to engineering, or vice versa, without losing any of the credit earned.

meinteel:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

I went to a US university fair at Suntec last year and that was what I was told by the universities present at that time.[/quote]I've been to such a fair before. Most of the booths were manned by students who are back on vacation or alumni who happen to be here at the time. Very few fly their admission office staff here. I suppose what they tell you should be correct for their university, though I doubt it's applicable to all universities in the US. Best to check directly with the university.

slmkhoo:

USgrad:

[quote=\"meinteel\"]
Singaporeans who have achieved a merit (pass grade) in Singapore-Cambridge GCE O levels or above would not be required to take TOEFL. This arrangement is so far, exclusively for Singaporeans only.

Is there such an arrangment? I know of universities that require TOEFL even for transfer cases ie those who have achieved an A or B in another accredited US college for the English subjects, on top of a distinction in O level English. 1 of such university is University of Washington.

The most sought-after colleges may be less likely to waive TOEFL, I think. My husband applied to do a PhD (in the '90s though, so things may have changed) with a first class degree from a top UK university, and was still required to submit a TOEFL score![/quote]That's a surprise. But it's probably because he spend less than the required number of years studying in the UK (I'm assuming he had his education in Singapore prior to going to university in the UK). And then again, in the 1990s, it wasn't uncommon for overseas universities to require TOEFL if your education had been in Singapore. Haven't heard of any universities requiring TOEFL for those from UK.