Uproar over new rental flats

[tankee]

hquek:

I read quickly through the article. It was so funny that one resident suggested the flats should be 8 storeys tall rather than 14....me wondering if he's living on the 9th storey.


Anyway, my family used to stay in rental flats....but those were in central area. I don't assume that govt wants to continue with these rental units in such prime districts. Rental per month for each unit I think is about $30.00 (from way back, don't think they increased); and private property is more like $1k psf for 99 year hor.

Think there will be uproar whereever they intend to build. Remember the hoo haa over foreign worker dorm at Serangoon?

probably 9th and above.

uproar over workers dorm I can still appreciate. but against fellow citizens?

[skunk]

tankee:

uproar over workers dorm I can still appreciate. but against fellow citizens?

humans will always find their own reasons to discriminate against the have-nots.

Just as u have a reason to differentiate between foreigners n fellow citizens, they have a reason to discriminate even among citizens.

Just as a drug addict inside Queenstown Rehab is also a citizen, I might also discriminate against him.

It's not like in the old days, when people are poor, 90% of the time it's because of circumstances. Now, 90% of the time when people are poor, it's because they got some kind of inherent problem that prevents them from getting ahead in a very fair and meritocratic society.

I've volunteered and held key positions in charitable societies, and my word can be taken for it.

Many of the poor today have drug problems, marital problems, gambling problems, alcohol problems, mental problems...all kinds of problems u can think of, they have it. Would u like to stay near them?

It's not like in the past, when someone's poor, it's likely simply because the parents are poor, having just escaped from the Communists in China.

Of course, there are still genuine cases around, but u can trust my word, they're only like 10% or so.

I'm not supporting discrimination, but i can understand why people discriminate. Not anyhow, but often for very good reasons.

[mintcc]

wah…I would think marital problems are considered "circumstances". Don’t agree that people should be discriminate just because they are poor or have problems.

[tamarind]

[quote]
Now, 90% of the time when people are poor, it's because they got some kind of inherent problem that prevents them from getting ahead in a very fair and meritocratic society. [/quote]There are people who have studied hard and worked hard all their lives. Then at 40 years old, they were retrenched. In the engineering field, it is very difficult to find another job after 40 years old. I heard that most end up as taxi drivers.

Read this blog :
http://derekwee.blogspot.com/2006/10/future-of-singapore.html

Of course if these people are wise enough to buy an HDB flat instead of private property, then they will not end up in rental flats. But if they bought private property, they may not be able to pay the monthly loan, and may have to find cheaper places to live.

These people may lower their salary expectations, and try to apply for lower paying jobs. But very few employers will want to employ a former manager as a junior staff.

It is not always true that people are poor because they have not studied or worked hard enough or not smart enough, even in Singapore today.

There are also those who poured all their money into their business, then failed and lost everything. Can we have some empathy for them ?

I guess it is difficult for younger people to understand that, even though a person may be very smart, and very hard working, he may not be successful in life. He is just not fortunate enough.

I do have a feeling that Singapore is becoming more and more elitist. Those people who were born in upper middle class families, simply cannot understand what the poor families are going through. And the worst thing is that, they do not have any compassion for other people. ( I am not referring to anyone in this thread)

[skunk]

mintcc:

wah...I would think marital problems are considered \"circumstances\". Don't agree that people should be discriminate just because they are poor or have problems.

U mean to say they \"shouldn't be discriminated\"?.....Yes, I agree they shouldn't be discriminated....I'm just saying I can understand why they are discriminated against...and the reasons are not all wrong.

Marital problems are not \"circumstances beyond control\". If one had chosen a spouse carefully, and not rush into marriage, a lot of problems could be avoided. If one is tolerant and loving, many problems could be avoided. If one has done one's duty as a loving spouse, many problems could be avoided. If one is faithful, many probs could be avoided. In short, I cannot think of a problem in marriage that is \"beyond reasonable control\".

But if a family is poor from taking care of a child born with genetic problems, such I would say, is a circumstance beyond control. But out of all the \"poor\" people, I would say, only 10% of them belong to this group.

In fact, the charity group i used to work in, we had a single dad raising 2 mentally retarded girls....his wife ran away already. Guess what, within a few years, he had learnt to stand on his own feet, and told us he did not need charity anymore.

And we had been helping a family \"afflicted\" with alcoholism for 20 over years, and till today, they still can't stand on their own feet.

My experiences dealing with this people face-to-face and on a regular basis, has revealed that today's \"poor\", indeed, many of them have only themselves to blame

[tree nymph]

tamarind:

[quote]
Now, 90% of the time when people are poor, it's because they got some kind of inherent problem that prevents them from getting ahead in a very fair and meritocratic society.

There are people who have studied hard and worked hard all their lives. Then at 40 years old, they were retrenched. In the engineering field, it is very difficult to find another job after 40 years old. I heard that most end up as taxi drivers.

Read this blog :
http://derekwee.blogspot.com/2006/10/future-of-singapore.html

Of course if these people are wise enough to buy an HDB flat instead of private property, then they will not end up in rental flats. But if they bought private property, they may not be able to pay the monthly loan, and may have to find cheaper places to live.

These people may lower their salary expectations, and try to apply for lower paying jobs. But very few employers will want to employ a former manager as a junior staff.

It is not always true that people are poor because they have not studied or worked hard enough or not smart enough, even in Singapore today.[/quote]Hi!

I agree with you. Even though I'm not in the Engineering Line, I do worry about what if I got retrenched. And then what can I work as to make a living and continue to provide for my kids. And I kept having the sales assistant/cashier image coming into my mind...

[skunk]

tamarind:

It is not always true that people are poor because they have not studied or worked hard enough or not smart enough, even in Singapore today.

that doesn't fall into the definition of \"poor\", in the context of this thread, in discussing govt rental flats.

To qualify for a govt rental flat, if i'm not wrong, monthly income must be below $1200.

Whenever i talk about \"poor\", I'm talking about this group....those whose disposable incomes are so low, they have problems getting by on a day-to-day basis. Some of them have their electricity and water supply cut off.

I used to serve at a hospice...and I've seen a man without arms and legs, but he managed to partially support himself by selling paintings done with his mouth. I find it hard to empathise with people who are able-bodied, worse, with qualifications, who are unable to eke out at least a respectable level of living.

[mintcc]

skunk:

I'm just saying I can understand why they are discriminated against...and the reasons are not all wrong.


Marital problems are not \"circumstances beyond control\". If one had chosen a spouse carefully, and not rush into marriage, a lot of problems could be avoided. If one is tolerant and loving, many problems could be avoided. If one has done one's duty as a loving spouse, many problems could be avoided. If one is faithful, many probs could be avoided. In short, I cannot think of a problem in marriage that is \"beyond reasonable control\".

But if a family is poor from taking care of a child born with genetic problems, such I would say, is a circumstance beyond control. But out of all the \"poor\" people, I would say, only 10% of them belong to this group.

In fact, the charity group i used to work in, we had a single dad raising 2 mentally retarded girls....his wife ran away already. Guess what, within a few years, he had learnt to stand on his own feet, and told us he did not need charity anymore.

And we had been helping a family \"afflicted\" with alcoholism for 20 over years, and till today, they still can't stand on their own feet.

My experiences dealing with this people face-to-face and on a regular basis, has revealed that today's \"poor\", indeed, many of them have only themselves to blame

It is really sad that you have come to this conclusion after volunteering in a charity group. You say you do not discriminate against the poor but in saying that \"My experiences dealing with this people face-to-face and on a regular basis, has revealed that today's \"poor\", indeed, many of them have only themselves to blame :\" It sounds like you have already arrive at a \"consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice\"

It appears you are fortunate in your marital experience. Perhaps you can look at some of the experiences of people in the relationship section of the forum before you make such a sweeping statement as \"In short, I cannot think of a problem in marriage that is \"beyond reasonable control\"

[mintcc]

tamarind:

I do have a feeling that Singapore is becoming more and more elitist. Those people who were born in upper middle class families, simply cannot understand what the poor families are going through. And the worst thing is that, they do not have any compassion for other people. ( I am not referring to anyone in this thread)

Totally agree tamarind...there are many stories of people who are caught in the poverty cycle and simply need help to get out....at normal rental rates in HDB being so high, a family without sufficient income for the moment really do not have a lot of option. They need money before they can send the child to childcare and they can't get money unless they work. Sometimes, such people just need a little help to tide them over the difficult times.

[tamarind]

skunk:

that doesn't fall into the definition of \"poor\", in the context of this thread, in discussing govt rental flats.


To qualify for a govt rental flat, if i'm not wrong, monthly income must be below $1200.

What if both hubby and wife are retrenched, and have $0 income ? I know of real life cases. As I wrote earlier, even if they want to look for low paying jobs, people may be too prejudiced to employ them.

[quote]I agree with you. Even though I'm not in the Engineering Line, I do worry about what if I got retrenched. And then what can I work as to make a living and continue to provide for my kids. And I kept having the sales assistant/cashier image coming into my mind...[/quote]tree nymph,
I was thinking of receptionist, but I don't think I can even get a job as a receptionist !

mintcc:

Totally agree tamarind...there are many stories of people who are caught in the poverty cycle and simply need help to get out....at normal rental rates in HDB being so high, a family without sufficient income for the moment really do not have a lot of option. They need money before they can send the child to childcare and they can't get money unless they work. Sometimes, such people just need a little help to tide them over the difficult times.

I totally agree with you too, especially your last statement.