Children of average ability

[tamarind]

buds:

3. If the group were given more blocks to dabble with, teachers cud
observe many a sightings with these cuties. One may be arranging all
same coloured blocks in a row-like-train.. Another may be counting
quite far already, than we thought he could! One other mate cud be
arranging domino-like patterns with flat blocks.. Or a few may be
engaged in stair-like structures ( exploring dimensions! ) And many
many other observations, other than construction-based creativities.

buds,
There was a pile of blocks in the middle of the table. I found it a little disturbing that none of the kids took the initiative to take more blocks from that pile. Were they made to play with the same things everyday ? Were they bored ? They were just holding the blocks in their hands, waiting for time to pass. Another possibility could be that the teacher restricted each child from taking too many blocks, because they are supposed to \"share\".

The kids were not even moving away from the chair. These kids were below 3 years old. At that age, my kids could not sit still for more than 1 minute. The teacher must have done a good job \"training\" them to sit still. But that is not something that I want my kids to be trained at.

ks2me:

Normal cc is not meant for your children as your standards and expectations are on the high side. For you, you have to choose the premium ones and then you may have the issue of whether you want to pay so high for cc fees. Just like choosing 6-star hotel vs 3 star hotel.

I have also visited Pat schoolhouse at Arena. I was not impressed. If I pay that kind of money, then they better meet my very high expectations. The children still have to sleep on canvas beds. Can't they afford decent mattresses ? I am a very fussy mommy !

ks2me:

Also, the expectation of what the cc needs to do is unreal like \"leaving children to play on their own is a no-no?\" Don't we do that at home too otherwise you will be choked or else why buy so expensive toys? so that you can play with the child all the time? Wink Sometimes this 'value for money' concept is taken overboard, sounds like the 50cts bigger than the wheelcart wheels. CC staff are also humans, need a breather sometimes.

Some of our Lego sets have lasted for more than 4 years, and they are still like brand new. This is why I prefer such toys, although they are expensive, their quality is superb. Even after being thrown around, stepped on, etc. Most importantly, these toys help to develop creativity and fine motor skills. Lego and Playmobil have been around for more than 30 years, so there must be many other people who think that they are good. However, as I wrote in my earlier post, even without expensive toys, playing with other things that can be found at home can be just as fun.

When our kids were less than 3 years old, my mother or my maid took turns to play with them, every minute that they were awake. Children below the age of 3 need to be taught how to play. In the past, younger children follow older children around and learn to play from them. However, in every CC nowadays, children are grouped by age, what can they learn from each other ?

After 3 years old, both my kids learn to play on their own. We are all so relieved !

ks2me:

As for ill treatment, if you do not allow a child to learn either to eat well or stand up for herself/himself when so-called abuse, you will be leaving the child in a sorry state when you are not there to protect her/him. Eating is basic and if it requires alot of cajoling and sweet words, something is wrong...and definitely cannot be expected in a cc.

My point is that some children just cannot learn to eat well on their own. Not every child will eat when he/she is hungry. Some children simply do not like to eat. And I think that simply letting the child go hungry for the whole day is very cruel. These children are not suitable to be in CCs.

[csc]

tamarind:

If I pay $1000 or more a month, I will certainly not tolerate Singlish speaking teachers !


My girl's teacher's English is grammatically OK, it is just that she speaks like any other Singaporean. I listen to BBC so I am hoping that my kids speak like those BBC news presenters

Both my kids' teachers are not the the screaming type otherwise I would have moved them elsewhere.

In most local primary schools, it is not uncommon to find Singlish speaking teachers too. Good English-Speaking teachers are lacking these days.

And you'll not only find screaming teachers who are under lots of stress handling a class of 30 to 40 children but more often than not, screaming discipline masters in the hall before assembly and sometimes, screaming principals... :x

For those parents who cannot tolerate such scenes and have the skills and patience to teach their children better, I think home-schooling is the best...

Actually a friend of mine is home-schooling her three sons... guess who's screaming...? :lol:

[jedamum]

i think this thread has spiraled into childcare and homeschooling vs preschool teaching discussion.

[buds]

Heyya csc,


Thanks for pointing it out!
Yes, yes.. i agree.

I am blessed that the gift of teaching comes natural for me
as i have been in the industry for awhile. It is very helpful
for me to teach my own - which is not neccesarily easier!
But it does save money! Hehee.. Having to stay home this
knowledge came in handy, thank god!

As i understand how some parents may not be versed in trying
to teach their children, i have come up with a way to help them.
During my full time working days, i ALWAYS include post lesson
briefing for all my students' parents/guardians. I bring them into
the class with the materials still laid out and first show how i
conducted my lesson. Meaning the parents get to see how the
actual lesson was conducted for the day and parents get to
see whether their children understood lesson learnt for the day
in front of them and watch their children's responses.

After which, i ask for the children's assistance if they cud help
put back some of the materials we used and its during this few
minutes i spend time with the parents. I ask parents if they need
me to answer any doubts they have about the lesson, about how
the child is progressing or if they wish to know more on how to
do home re-inforcements. If time permits, i will show them step
by step how to conduct that similar lesson at home. For such pre-
active parents, i love to share external materials for them to do
with their children at home. Usually, by the next lesson i wud have
prepared a fun package for them to bring home! This wud assist
the working parents to go straight into the teaching/reinforcing
without having to source and make the materials themselves.

So far, through this effort, parents have better understanding of
what is covered and how to reinforce as for most enrichment
lessons are like hourly and on weekly basis. Since i observe an
open policy for my lessons, i never really had problems with the
parents or the children. It helps the children to master the lesson
learnt better with parents involvement which is good and parents
get to learn the simple skills they can use to teach siblings. I
suppose its a win-win situation for me.

Parents happy, teacher happy!

PS - I apologise if my indulgences via my posts have neglected
parents who may not be able to teach their own. Very insensititve
of me... Am guilty of getting caught up in the housewives rambling,
hehee.. Forgive the oversight, k? :oops:

[buds]

Heyya jedamum,


Ya hor! You're right lah..
Make that one big spiral!
Hehee..

K, lets not stray from the topic header..
Back to talk on working with our children
and children of average ability.

Paiseh.. Paiseh..
:oops:

PS : Think must start new thread on ramblings of the average kiasumum!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Wuahahahahaaa! Hey, appreciate the positive observation, jedamum. Tks!

[buds]

Its always important to see the big picture in things we do and say.

The times that we fail to do so may result in unwanted or unnecessary
misunderstandings or petty conflicts. But, i personally find that
to resolve the situation and have the big picture cleared up will ease
the feeling in the gut. I would not mind being subjected to humility if
it indeed was a flaw on my part, un-intentionally..

Many things to clear up today, so that we can all finally end this
chapter and start afresh from where we left off. Lets begin...

For users who find its not of their common interest reading any
post, there's always a choice not to read. This is a forum... a
platform for public discussion. Users have rights to agree and disagree
and to remain anonymous. It is also an unspoken rule to remain
cordial with everyone we encounter here and hostile language or
equivalent best be avoided.

>Posts/Comments on childcare
>These are mainly from an educator's point of view first cause
i have been in this mass market provided for parents all over.
And i have worked with the cheapo-profit-making types and also
slightly upmarket ones, however my stand is still that if one can
afford to care for their children it is still best. Its like taking a maid.
Those who have seen the extremes, they swear they'll never ever
hire one again whatever the cost. Likewise for myself, i have seen
extremes. Both sides of the extremes to be fair. But more of the
ugly sides i'm afraid. Just like maids.. Visit the All About Maids Forum
if you don't believe me. Majority have negative feedback on maids.
But not neccesarily avoiding the fact, there are great ones... if we're
lucky. I've been lucky a couple of times when working on a short
overseas stint some years back.

Now that i am also a parent, there will also be personal comments on
the services of a childcare as well, environment, curriculum and also
the teachers. Personal opinions are where others are welcome to differ.
Human beings are all different, unique to their own characters and
personalities as well as the ways we have been raised. No two person's
opinions may be exactly alike unless cloned. In case of like-minded
comments, most times its totally coincidental. Or at times for jest sake.

Truthfully, there may not be a childcare that meets up to anyone's
expectations because the child is ours and what we do for our children
may not measure up to someone else's type of care. So for me, tho
i do have a choice to go premium if i really wanted to, it isn't a big of
a deal, esp if one works full time... but as a personal choice, i chose
not to. Why? Cos i kiasu. I want everything to be provided under one
roof which most are not able to give even at a premium price plus i'm
very particular about staff credibility and capability. So why go bother
other people? Hence, i do myself. Fair, i suppose. And also... FOC.

>Inborn Intelligence
>I don't suppose its appropriate to say that a child is born stupid.
I have heard of borne-geniuses... a fair number of em' famous people. But poor children born with intelligence wud still require stimulation from
the caregiver. Unless without any stimulation or any teachings the
newborn can already walk and talk on their own.

>Lavish Toys
>These i frankly do not own many. However, my agreement with a fellow
user, tamarind, is based purely on agreement with the excellent quality
of these toys and their extreme durability in the long run. I also do not
expect a childcare to have \"expensive toys\" as a major criteria of whether
the childcare is good or not. As long as its safe for children to use, its
good enough. I for one fully understand that term \"profitability\" in centres
cause i've managed a few. Profitability without the expense of lousy heck
care attitude staff and without the expense of an un-prepared environment
ie. not enough pencils, not enough bread, not enough books, etc for the
total number of enrolment in a centre. Profit yes, but do not shortchange
customers. Who are they? The customers are really the children. If they're happy, the parents will be happy. The parents will be more than
happy to pay any price, premium or non-premium.

>Ill-treatment / Abuse
>As an educator, i do not tolerate abuse... of ANY kind. As a parent,
of course all the more, NO! No parent will allow their children to be
subjected to any form of abuse or ill-treatment. Those who have kids
who are verbal, their kids can go home and complain. They will vomit
out the exact detail of what they have done in the centre. Their parents
WILL know. Babies however, do not have the ability to express coherently
compared to a bigger child, the goings-on of his day at a centre... unless
maybe those who are able to speak clearly at an earlier age.

>The verbal abuse mentioned in previous post was not just towards my
child. I first noted verbal abuse on another child whom i comforted in the
centre's toilet area. The child was big, but wasn't a complainer. Just went
into the toilet to have a good cry and came out with face all washed up
nice and clean and ready for another round. This teacher i encountered
was downright nasty. You be the judge.. She uses words like you stupid
girl, or you're such a rascal, eh.. you gangster is it, bloody idiot, and
lots more others which are inappropriate to be printed here. No matter
how bo-chap or understanding a parent may be, this is totally
unacceptable. It may not have happened to my child but my heart went
out to the children who did suffer under the teacher from the pits of hell.
I also felt so bad for the parents who didn't know... They're working so
hard to pay for the premium fees and yet... sigh...

>The verbal abuse automatically subjects the children to emotional
despair, unspoken of... of course. The corporal are like asking another
student to use a ruler and help teacher punish another student like a
tap on the hand. HOW CAN? I disliked every second of my working
hours there, it made me very unhappy. Each time i send out a child to
their parents upon dismissal i felt really bad for them. The feeling so
hard to describe tugging at my heart strings.

>If a form of abuse is done by children, we can teach the child (slowly)
the survival skills but a form of abuse from a person of authority, how?
This is not good for the emotional well-being of any child.

>Cajoling???
>Cajoling directly means, to persuade or soothe by flattery or deceit.
Now, that is an exaggerated expression misconstrued for the discussion
posted. If teachers are human beings, then of course children are too!
There is no need for cajoling at all. Just do not be RUDE or HARSH,
(we're educators for god's sake!) or use harsh and sarcastic verbal
interpretations to get a child to eat.

Furthermore, the first few days a new child esp at 18mths are left in total
care of a childcare, they are helplessly crying... pining and yearning for their parents/caregivers. We, the childcare minders are the ones who
should make them feel as much as possible welcome, cared for and in
safe hands. We want them to know we are here for them, during the
times their parents can't. Needless to say that parents at work too, are
constantly thinking of their babies and how they're coping in the centre..

We are all humans. All of us have feelings.
I EXPECT teachers to be kind and warm to young children so they
can have less of the separation anxiety and adapt quickly to this new
environment which is almost like a 2nd home ( especially for full day
children ).

>Un-observed play time..
>I got the impression from tamarind when she said the teacher left the
kids to play on their own as in really leaving them alone. Meaning the
teacher is out of sight. This IS A NO-NO!! A mishap is a blink away!
So, yes no way can a credible educator do that esp for that young an
age group! Thats my firm EXPECTATION!

>Tho the centres i work with are geared mainstream, we take in the
special children as well as those with illnesses that are manageable for
our teachers to observe care. Leaving the table with children who are
playing to go chat with other teachers or gossip about the parents or
anything other than be in the class to be with the children, is not
acceptable. If parents are okay with such free unobserved play, the
home is FREE OF CHARGE, no need to send childcare for free play.
Thankfully, a couple of centres i have worked with totally do not have
block play to avoid spoil-market teachers chucking the pile of blocks
so they can skive. It was for a good cause. These centres provide
manipulatives and other materials suitable for observed play. I as a
teacher am responsible for ALL the children under my care. If a child
has developed fits when i'm not there, i am RESPONSIBLE. A few autistic
children in my care have varied autism range. I must monitor that the
no one gets hurt from an occasional tantrum or temper flare. A poke in
the eye, a fall over the chair or just the seemingly normal bump-in
can cause unwanted mishaps in a class no matter how small. Staff have
their breathers lunch-time! After lunch, back to work. Back to the respon-
sibilities of a teacher. Period.

>I personally have not left my children to play on their own in their
early years. They are always with me for any kind of play. Personal
choice! And I don't feel choked at all. I enjoy the playtime together.
The only time i carry out the household neccesities are when they sleep!
Through the observed play children have in their early years, they play
well when they're older and until such time they can be trusted to play
without adult supervision. In a centre that one has paid for, all eyes
MUST be on the children. And here, they have stringent requirements for
a proportionate ratio of teachers:class size. This is a good measure.

>Mass Market
>Childcare is definitely mass market. More so now, when many families
cannot afford to sustain a comfortable lifestyle with a single income from a sole breadwinner - be it the mother or father.

I served the mass market for a looong time, i know the insides and outs
of it. The good, the bad and the ugly and also the fair and lovely too! To name a few examples from the many exemplary teachers i had the honour to work with. One former colleague who made sure she called
parents personally during the first week every single day of a new child's
entry even when this is not required or compulsory with the
communication book now widely used in centres. She used her lunch time
to catch up quickly with parents so the parents can work without any worry in their minds. Another made sure the children are cleaned up from
eye wax, fresh diaper was put on, cleaned up children's face and hair all
combed, prior to collection from parents. She even prepared warm milk
to pass to the children while waiting...

Fellow supervisors and senior teachers chipping in to help clean the toilets
when the cleaner couldn't manage (with coats and all) ... and colleagues
who help out with dismissal time even when they could jolly well go
home, cos another teacher was down attending to a child who isn't feeling
well and had vomitted all over the centre...

The are always 2 sides to a coin. 2 sides to a story.

>Topic Stray
>I humbly agree that this thread may have strayed unintentionally..
Now with this off my chest, ( at least for me.. ) i would gladly resume
to how the posts in this thread should read. >Working with children &
working with children of average ability. Promise! Hehee..

For the parents who have given me the nudge to what seemed like my
ramblings and rantings of a typical housewife, thank you for your sincere
& positive observation... i truly appreciate it. I'm human too and i do
have \"off\" days .. pls... pls... accept my apologies for it wasn't intended
to be so. As for snobbish? Thats far from what i am, in real life or in this forum.

Hope we can carry on from here afresh..
Sincerely... from the bottom of my heart,

[tamarind]

insider:

It's great that you have apologised to some of those mums who cannot afford to be at home coaching their children full time and who may have guilty feelings about it. Some of your writings (and some of Tamarind's) actually 'rub salt into wounds', I know it's unintentional but it may still hurt.

Some things that you wrote in other threads also \"rub salt in my wound\". Though you may not realized it. But don't ask me to say exactly which ones OK ? I forgot already. I also know that you did it unintentionally.

In the forum, we have to learn to respect different views. Just like in real life, our colleagues or friends may say something unknowingly that make us unhappy.

We come to the forum so that we can find like minded people. I am so very happy to find buds.

However, if we are restricted to write about only things that \"pleases\" other people, then what is the point of writing in the forum ?

Everyone will definitely read about something that they don't like in the forum. I have also read a lot of things that I am not happy about. Well, I have learn that if I don't like the views of someone, then whenever I see her post, I don't read it at all. You should also learn to do the same. Just because someone posted something in the forum, does not mean that you must read it. You may not agree with the views, but many people out there may think that she is correct.

I know of people who swear off forums because he or she cannot take this type of things.

I fully understand that there are mommies who have no choice but to put their kids in CC. But there are many mommies who gave up their high paying jobs because they don't trust CCs to do a good job in raising their children. If we were to only write views that pleases the first group of mommies, then it will hurt the feelings of the second group of mommies !

Everyone should continue to write what they think, in a civilised manner of course.

buds:

>Lavish Toys
>These i frankly do not own many. However, my agreement with a fellow
user, tamarind, is based purely on agreement with the excellent quality
of these toys and their extreme durability in the long run. I also do not
expect a childcare to have \"expensive toys\" as a major criteria of whether
the childcare is good or not. As long as its safe for children to use, its
good enough. I for one fully understand that term \"profitability\" in centres
cause i've managed a few. Profitability without the expense of lousy heck
care attitude staff and without the expense of an un-prepared environment
ie. not enough pencils, not enough bread, not enough books, etc for the
total number of enrolment in a centre. Profit yes, but do not shortchange
customers. Who are they? The customers are really the children. If they're happy, the parents will be happy. The parents will be more than
happy to pay any price, premium or non-premium.

From a customer point of view, when I pay over $1000 a month, I expect to see no less than Lego blocks, and not any other no name brand. I bought one big box of Lego bricks, 1800 pieces, for less than $100 dollars ! How much less profits can they make ? A box of Lego can last for many years. There is a difference between good quality toys and other lesser quality toys.

My point is only that with the money I save (from not paying the exorbitant fees), I not only can buy quality toys, I can also build a wonderful library of a few hundred children's books, something which I have not seen in any CCs. I do not mean that expensive toys are essential for a child's development, these are only beneficial

My boy attends a half day PCF kindergarten, only $100 a month. Actually I only pay $50 because of government subsidy through CDA. They don't have expensive toys. Their teachers don't speak like ang moh. But I am absolutely fine. I get what I pay for. That is most important.

[ChiefKiasu]

We all take parenting seriously. Why else would we call ourselves KiasuParents? In our earnest attempts at being better parents to our children, we learn from others through talking to relatives, friends, and an open community such as the Internet. We all try different things and we have our share of successes and failures. Some things work for some people but not for others. But the whole point about an open forum is that everyone is free to comment, compliment or criticise. If we have a point to make, we make it. There will be those that support our views, and others who don’t. But the key to learning is to keep an OPEN mind, and to listen to the critics of our points of view to understand their position so that we can get the bigger picture instead of being stuck in our own perception.


There is no need to agree with everything that others say. But there is a need to recognize that while we are all doing the same job, ie. parenting, we all have different skills and motivations which lead us to make different decisions that are relevant to our specific situations. As long as our actions are grounded on love for our children, here is no right or wrong in parenting, just what is more or less relevant to each parent. Some parents can afford to spend more time with their children than others. Some parents prefer to outsource their children’s education to others. Can we really say which parenting approach is better without fully considering the circumstances of each case?

I love reading all the posts from Tamarind, insider, buds, lizawa, sashimi, etc. There are too many to list. I do not agree with everything that is posted, but I respect each and every one as a dedicated parent whose love for their children comes through from the words that ring of endless days and nights of frustration and hardship that comes along with our tag of being a PARENT. Every post challenges my own views of being a good parent - the ones I agree with I try to incorporate in my views; the ones I disagree with I simply disagree with no loss of respect to the poster whom I believe is simply saying what he/she believes in. Who am I to say that my views should be the WAY that will work for every parent under any and every condition and situation?

So, in my most humble opinion, for us to benefit from an open forum, the 3 key conditions that every participant must do are
1) to maintain an open mind, and
2) to respect each other as parents with the best intentions for our own children;
3) to learn to agree to disagree.

[corneyAmber]

ChiefKiasu:

So, in my most humble opinion, for us to benefit from an open forum, the 3 key conditions that every participant must do are

1) to maintain an open mind, and
2) to respect each other as parents with the best intentions for our own children;
3) to learn to agree to disagree.

The above conditions are not enough, just to add 3 Rs and expand on your R.
1. Post Reasonably
2. Write Responsibly (social responsibility as this is public forum)
3. Be Realistic with expectations otherwise do something other than whining
4. Seek to Respect and Thou will be Respected (expanding on chief's point)

Yes, we can agree to disagree. I do not intend to convince anyone. Messages need to be internalised, no one can force it.

[tamarind]

I just watched a TV program on Channel 8 this afternoon. Zoe Tay was showing off her collections of many Louis Vuitton and Hermes bags.


During this time of recession, where many people were retrenched, it is really insensitive of her to show off. Each bag costs more than the monthly household income of many families. And for those who were retrenched, she is really rubbing salt into the wound.

The forum is like a TV show. Whatever we write, is open for the whole world to read. Is it really possible to please everyone ?

Every one has a different set of problems. Someone’s problem may seem like nothing to others, but it may be very important to that person. How can anyone else be the judge and say that he/she is whining ?