Any parents of gifted children here ?
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kiasulang:
I have mentioned earlier, it's only \"useful\" for the parents concerned. Whether a kid is determined as gifted or not, he or she is not exempted from the life of a normal child and schooling. It's sad if a parent needs the number to justify effort in nurturing the kid. For me, whether the kid if gifted or not, the parents should, within their means, nurture (not necessarily academically) their kids or address any problems the kids may have in growing up.
The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"
Source : http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=N2Uk58uFSD4C&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=all+siblings+are+qualified+as+gifted&source=web&ots=-t40DJUh5c&sig=DExj9HwOgMVYN5hz-KGwQWl0EyE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
In general, I have nothing against \"gifted\" labels. However, I have often come across badly behaved kids who are excused just because they are supposedly \"gifted\". Sad but it's true that \"gifted\" is sometimes an excuse for bad behaviour and others are supposed to give leeway to them.
In fact, if Singapore were to perform a gifted test at toddler and preschool level, the percentage of \"gifted\" kids we have as compared to other countries might be stunning. -
chamonix:
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have. I have said before, a child can only be born gifted, and formally tested can you be certain that he/she is gifted. No amount of training, we, parents can do to make that happen. It is a gift, apart from that they are as normal as every one. However, no one will deny the fact that his child is gifted to him.kiasulang:
The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"
Source : http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=N2Uk58uFSD4C&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=all+siblings+are+qualified+as+gifted&source=web&ots=-t40DJUh5c&sig=DExj9HwOgMVYN5hz-KGwQWl0EyE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
I have mentioned earlier, it's only \"useful\" for the parents concerned. Whether a kid is determined as gifted or not, he or she is not exempted from the life of a normal child and schooling. It's sad if a parent needs the number to justify effort in nurturing the kid. For me, whether the kid if gifted or not, the parents should, within their means, nurture (not necessarily academically) their kids or address any problems the kids may have in growing up.
In general, I have nothing against \"gifted\" labels. However, I have often come across badly behaved kids who are excused just because they are supposedly \"gifted\". Sad but it's true that \"gifted\" is sometimes an excuse for bad behaviour and others are supposed to give leeway to them.
In fact, if Singapore were to perform a gifted test at toddler and preschool level, the percentage of \"gifted\" kids we have as compared to other countries might be stunning.
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy. -
insider:
For every story, there is always a two sided views. If you are comfortable with your side of story, why not stick to it? I guess every one has its own side of story to tell. I'm glad that my side of story churns out well.kiasulang:
The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"
Source : http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=N2Uk58uFSD4C&pg=PA76&lpg=PA76&dq=all+siblings+are+qualified+as+gifted&source=web&ots=-t40DJUh5c&sig=DExj9HwOgMVYN5hz-KGwQWl0EyE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
If want to really go into research info like above, its never ending coz for every article like the above, there is always at least another to counter such. We tend to pick research reports that support our own belief swell by it and ignore those that contradict, regardless of actually which end is more sound. That's human I guess to have such blind spot...
We are only providing our side of view. It's unfortunate that your side of story might not be what you have desired, but I'm sure you can find comfort one way or another.
If I can't tolerate the so called 'weakness' of my child then, I'm sure I wouldn't be a happy parent today. I sincerely hope you can be tolerant, to love someone is to love both his strength and weakness and then influence him to be a better person.
Today, I'm glad that my younger son picks up after his older brother. At least, I can confirm that the above study is 100% true to me. -
insider:
I wouldn't be bothered if this the criteria for others. I said it means a lot to me. It been absolutely true too.kiasulang:
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Huh huh, today I gathered another 'crtiterior/reason' for some parents to have more kids. I have known about considerations for affordability, who is to care/educate, etc, now I know one more possible for consideration is this \"IQ Number\" (i presume is if first child IQ is high, then have more; first child IQ lower then can stop? BTW, majority kids average IQ.)insider:
Do you know that in order to be admitted to high IQ societies? You need to produce those scores.kiasulang:
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems,
IQ test system has been there for a purpose (because there maybe nothing more concrete available and so still have to depend on this out-dated 'measuring scale' to 'measure' the kids) but one should not over-estimate it's usefulness either... (my teaching/training materials / experiences / etc have never focused on IQ and IQ has been debated/questioned much about it's one-sided implication.)insider:
If you read carefully, you will know that I mean the 500. If you have a child in there, you will understand what I mean.
Singaporean kids are famous for their exam taking skills. Many of them score distinction in Chinese without actually knowing how to speak or read a decent Chinese books. Many of them can score distinction in E Maths, A Maths, etc without knowing the real application of maths. \"Number is the key to success\"??? People skills maybe more important to obtain success (with reasonably results) and not necessary must be among one of the 'Number'. (I for one loath local stifling education that churns out mostly 'square' kids coz of this striving towards the so called 'Number').kiasulang:
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.insider:
That's harsh....kiasulang:
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.
Good that you are happy coz your child (I believe belongs to one of the 'Number's) may not exhibit those tyrant like behaviours like some other gifted children. If my sis's son (my 13 years old 'gifted' nephew) is my son, I may have murdered him long along ago and maybe kill myself after that (\"exploring the world\" is one thing, \"destroying the peace and harmony within a family\" is another. Being gifted is not his fault but his giftedness comes with a hefty price for my sis and everyone in her family). -
kiasulang:
The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
This is really sad.
If my friend has read the above research (thankfully she did not), she would not have gone on to give birth to two more children, one of which is in the gifted program. (in my opinion, being gifted and being in the gifted program are different)
You see, her eldest son is born with great learning disability... he is in a school for special kids.... he can't even do things normal kids do....
But, that did not stop her from wanting to have more children.... though the risk is there.....She loves them all the same as they are all God's gifts to her.. -
ks2me:
ks2me, pardon me but your post is full of ranting, presumptions and personal judgments. If you didn't mean to come across as harsh, I'm sorry to tell you it sure doesn't seem that way.icemountain:
That being said, I do think the concern of social interaction with peers is way overrated. Social interaction to me means my child should be able to speak to and form friendships with people of all ages and not just with people of the same age.
Is your child an only child? I feel sorry for her. You \"WANT\" and \"WILL\" too many things for her. If I were her, I will grow up resenting everything. Even if not only child, 2-3 is still small sample for homeschooling. [btw, this is not directed personally at you, just generally parents with an only child]
I find parents who homeschool one child very stifling. It's like keeping the child to yourself and only inculcating in the child what you want. And people who claim that their child is gifted/advanced and can only be homeschooled, that actually compound their problem of not fitting into the peer group even more. I find the parents are driving the issue deeper, to make the child appear more special because all the traits seem to fit the \"gifted kid\" profile? It's called self-fulfilling prophesy. It may be subconscious, but pls think harder. Even if you bring to the playground to play with other children, it is still under the close scrutiny of your eyes. When does your child really get to fend for herself in your total absence? NEVER. Homeschooling single child is an egoistic approach for new parents, especially those kids who appear advanced. They think they are only the best for their children! I am sure your child will grow up resenting every bit of it when they realise what they have been stopped from experiencing. Smart children can think, so parents, don't assume you are the clever one. All these stem from very SELFISH desires of the parents. I am sorry I cannot see the benefit.
Social interaction is NOT the only reason to attend school and not over-rated. If your child is only child, who do you think the child can depend on when you are gone? Attending school learns the rules of the school as well. Learns teamwork, organisation, leadership and how to go about aligning with a system and getting things done. All these not important? because your child is going to be astronaut, doctor, scientist, president, or God????
I may sound harsh to the parents but I fear for these children after reading all the articles. I am even more peeved to read how homeschool children appear to be disadvantaged in the education major exam system. Then why do this to your child just to fulfill self ego? I may be my child's best teacher but you know what? I am always happy to give ALL credit to the teachers, I won't even bother to claim any credit. Honestly, there is no need to declare to the world how good a teacher a parent is. It is inherent that as a parent, we appear to be the world to our kids, is that not enough?
Also, if a parent needs to justify the reason for staying home and not work, this homeschool reason is so LAME. Stay at home because you enjoy the child, there is just as much benefit to the parent as well as the child. Don't think it is only for the child. Be honest with yourself.
Since preschool is not compulsory, if people want to homeschool, so be it. But people who homeschool from primary onwards, please think very carefully your main objective, better not be a selfish one and push all the goodness to the child/children. I despise that. If one cannot be honest and use their child as a vehicle for their own desires...what kind of of values can that parent deliver to the children.
There may be a category of parents who think this way too: Since I have already quit my job to be at home, I might as well fully utilise it and do homeschooling.... Pleassssssssssssse.... quitting the job does not mean quitting the brain... Think before you do it as a matter of convenience.
Lastly, if a single child is a 'special need' in terms of disability child, then my heart goes to the parents who need to homeschool. These are genuine reasons I find sometimes it is hard for them not to do it.
Btw, I am saying all these not from \"papertalk\" and not to sound spiteful or destructive cos I have nothing against anyone. Everything I believe, I have personal experience in it and just walking the talk and now talking the walk. I believe in being as constructive as possible, in my comments as well as handling of the children.
Sorry if I have offended anyone in my contribution that is full of dynamite power, but that is not the intent. Hope you can read between the lines.
I'm not propounding why homeschooling is better than going to mainstream. I chose what I want to do for what I believe. At the same time, I do not criticise those who prefer sending their child to school. I'm sure those who homeschool would appreciate the same respect from those who do not agree. To each his own, live and let live. No need to bring in GOD here IMO.
What is wrong with what I WANT and WILL for my child? How is it different from parents who send their children to all sorts of enrichment classes, tuition, the best schools etc? How is it different from every parent who is looking at this forum? From the way you have written, it seems you think a homeschooled child has every step of his life planned out for him.
I do not agree with your view that a child must be left alone out of parents' sight to fend for himself and a homeschooling child is necessarily \"protected\". If fights were to occur in school, would you not want the teachers to intervene? If a child goes to school, wouldn't he be under the watchful eye of his teachers? When is he ever left alone?
For one, I do not hover around my child when we go playgrounds. I don't know of many parents who do. If she were to have any disagreements, I let her be and would intervene only necessary. If she were to go school, I would rightly expect teachers to do the same.
I do not choose to homeschool because I think my child is advanced or superior. And homeschooling parents I've met do not say that their children are gifted too so I'm puzzled at your presumption. If people still thinking homeschooling = hothousing, I'm quite disappointed that this misconception still prevails. Perhaps it's better for them to read up more and get to know homeschoolers before making this assumption.
Edited to add: And nope, she's not the only child. -
kiasulang:
I don't think it's only the 500 who contribute to the success of our country....there are many others including foreign workers who have played a part in that... Everyone is indispensable, you know.... Without the others (i don't know how many), you think the 500 can do it on their own?
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
Also the children should not be reduced to statistics ... one of the 500?
Every CHILD is unique, special and precious.
It takes more grace and love to accept one who is less than perfect and not our own. -
csc:
Certainly, you are right to mention that. It's sadden to see that a study report which means a lot to me can be daunting to others.kiasulang:
The number certainly means a lot to me. Study found that \"when one child child in a family has been formally identified as gifted, all of the siblings brought forward for testing also qualified as gifted\"
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
(in my opinion, being gifted and being in the gifted program are different) -
csc:
kiasulang:
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the [b]number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
If you are to follow the discussion closely, I mean taking part in international competitions (math, science, etc).csc:
I don't think it's only the 500 who contribute to the success of our country....there are many others including foreign workers who have played a part in that... Everyone is indispensable, you know.... Without the others (i don't know how many), you think the 500 can do it on their own?
Even for a movie to be successful, every castings, and personnels are important. However, who gets to be mentioned? -
kiasulang:
Likewise, I think you have overestimated the power of IQ tests and importance of the magic numbers. Here's a link on the development of IQ tests http://psychology.about.com/od/psychologicaltesting/a/int-history.htm (don't we enjoy culling info & researches from the internet to back up our beliefs?). This particular section catches my eyes.
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.
However, Binet himself did not believe that his psychometric instruments could be used to measure a single, permanent and inborn level of intelligence (Kamin, 1995). Binet stressed the limitations of the test, suggesting that intelligence is far too broad a concept to quantify with a single number. Instead, he insisted that intelligence is influenced by a number of factors, changes over time and can only be compared among children with similar backgrounds (Siegler, 1992)
Indeed, I believe many factors (such as more educated parents, nurturing environment) would affect the magic IQ number. And till now, has there been any credible IQ studies on kids from similar backgrounds vs different backgrounds to prove that gifted or IQ tests can indeed sift out true inborn intelligence? Even for the WISC test, can one deny a preschooler who's been spoken to in adult language since young would have a higher verbal score than one who who has only been exposed to baby language? Has anybody done a study to prove that IQ doesn't change over time? Then why the need to keep revising the numbers and ceilings? If we were to do a study over time, would the IQ results be the same for kids who lived a century ago and kids in today's fast moving world?
Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.
Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?
If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.
Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them.
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