Any parents of gifted children here ?
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chamonix:
Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.kiasulang:
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.
charmonix:
It sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?
charmonix:
How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.
charmonix:
Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them.
There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so. -
kiasulang:
Indeed. No one can force anyone to believe what others think. As many have expressed here, they don't need the magical number to believe that their kids are unique and special.
No test systems can claim that they are 100% sound. It is naive to think that one with reasonable mindset would believe that. It can only serve as an indicator like I had mentioned some treads before. It serves me well and I'm happy with it. Obviously, no one can force anyone to believe that.kiasulang:
Weird but from what I understand, the now so called school-based gifted education programme does accept kids who were not formerly from the primary GEP programme.Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.
kiasulang:
Well, that's my encounter from staying abroad. And yes, I am putting my kids in the local primary school. Basically, I have neither complaints nor praises about our local education system. It has given me a good education despite its many imperfections.sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???
kiasulang:
How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?
No, I don't know. If I ever have the chance to ask them, I'll definitely ask them to pay you a visit and share more on being gifted.kiasulang:
Yes, I agree. Not all but there are some black sheep.There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so.
kiasulang:
No, I don't believe that gifted can be trained. But I believe that there's a greater percentage of gifted children present in Singapore based on the current available gifted tests, meaning I believe we have more intelligent kids around. If the gifted tests were made affordable for preschoolers, I believe we will see a greater number of gifted cases than the current numbers.I have said before, a child can only be born gifted, and formally tested can you be certain that he/she is gifted. No amount of training, we, parents can do to make that happen. It is a gift, apart from that they are as normal as every one. However, no one will deny the fact that his child is gifted to him.
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kiasulang:
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your kid's number seriously.
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by many smart (but unlabeled) kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too. What I think of gifted kids is that they are special (and sometimes, a pain) in their own ways. -
chamonix:
I'm not bother by any body. I'm just disgusted about what you said in this tread. I don't understand why you resent so much about assessing a child. Are you afraid of being disappointed? Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.kiasulang:
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too. -
kiasulang:
I'm not bother by any body. I'm just disgusted about what you said in this tread. I don't understand why you resent so much about assessing a child. Are you afraid of being disappointed? Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.[/quote]That goes for how I feel towards you too. The only thing you value most and talk about is just getting kids tested and the numbers they are tagged. Without the numbers, the kids are nothing... really a sad and revolting thought.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.chamonix:
[quote=\"kiasulang\"]
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too.
Indeed, I don't have a concrete number to talk about. Perhaps, you should announce the precious number and gather like-minded parents and discuss about the Numbers . Get my kids assessed just to join your club? No thanks, I wouldn't want to end up being obsessed with Numbers. Got better things to do.
Btw, I have nothing to whine. Both my kids are intelligent and happy children with absolute zero need for tagging. The tests will not tell me anything I don't already know nor change the way I view and love them. With or without the gfited label (by professional), to me, they are and always will be far more intelligent and precious than any other kids who has been tagged. -
insider:
Hi Insider,kiasulang:
Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.
As an educator, I celebrate the joy of taking care / educating young kids, whether they are average kids, beautiful / ugly, or with special needs (learning disabilities / physically handicapped / gifted / etc).
Since Chamonix's repeated words of she also shares similar stance of we should celebrate kids of any abilities seems to be fallen on deaf ears guess there is no point having further chicken and duck talk here. (I actually find her writing gentle and sensible all the while until maybe later part got agitated. I am reading her writing from an intellectual exchange point of view instead of trying to 'win' anything. Even till then, she still maintains her position that she is not objecting anybody from sending their kids for whatever testing that each deems fit.)
Go enjoy looking at your Numbers and do your own celebrations. Cheers!
Thanks for lending a voice. For a moment, I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.
Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this... -
chamonix:
No, you are not the odd one. I will not tag my child with a number or label. It is only indicative of some form of guidance and direction at best and that's all. Nothing is so absolute in life.I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.
Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this...
Some of us need a structure to guide our lives.
Some of us need a passion to guide our lives.
Most of us need both.
The extreme will always stand out. -
I'm not sure if I have the full picture - it's a LOONNG thread - but it seems like there is an ensuing argument about sending children for assessment?
Personally, I don't give 2 hoots about measuring the intelligence of my own children. Maybe I'm afraid I'll be disappointed by the test results as kiasulang postulated, but more because I have already accepted that my kids are just bright kids and not gifted by GEP's yardstick so I don't need no confirmation of that fact. But I can imagine how parents with truly gifted kids (in the GEP sense) would value such measurements just so they can confirm their suspicions and take the necessary action to work with such kids.
Also, I don't recall seeing anything posted by anybody who say that such assessments are evil. In fact, I felt that Chamonix went out of her way to explain her stand, which happens to be quite similar to mine. So I'm really puzzled how the discussion got so personal.
There is no need to use strong language directed at any individual in the Forum. If we parents cannot engage in discussions in a cordial manner, how can we expect our children to do so in their discussions? -
icemountain:
ks2me, pardon me but your post is full of ranting, presumptions and personal judgments. If you didn't mean to come across as harsh, I'm sorry to tell you it sure doesn't seem that way.
Sorry you read wrongly, read again, emotions must be overwhelming... I admitted I was harsh to the parents clearly in the post.icemountain:
There is nothing to criticise for those sending kids to school cos if we don't, we would be criticised and \"persecuted\" by the authorities. Don't get me wrong, I am not against homeschooling, only having a view of people with few kids using homeschooling as an excuse to fulfill own desires, nothing so beneficial for the children. My concern is for the children. Just a wake-up call for people without the sound objective plus I don't like the idea that the homeschool kids eventually can potentially lose out in PSLE exam to kids going to school having same aggregate because of the rules fixed by MOE. If MOE rule cannot change yet, it would be best that parents think carefully the merits of homeschooling.I'm not propounding why homeschooling is better than going to mainstream. I chose what I want to do for what I believe. At the same time, I do not criticise those who prefer sending their child to school. I'm sure those who homeschool would appreciate the same respect from those who do not agree. To each his own, live and let live. No need to bring in GOD here IMO.
icemountain:
Firstly, your child is not the \"ONLY\" child, this does not apply to you unless you admit to stifling your kids with homeschooling?What is wrong with what I WANT and WILL for my child? How is it different from parents who send their children to all sorts of enrichment classes, tuition, the best schools etc? How is it different from every parent who is looking at this forum? From the way you have written, it seems you think a homeschooled child has every step of his life planned out for him.
icemountain:
Obviously you do not have a child going to school so all these are your presumptions. If there are 30 children in the class, do you think the teacher can be so watchful on top of their heavy admin work? I tell you how they cope. They pull out the \"streetsmart\" kids in the class to help maintain this order and control. And if anything goes wrong, it would be the children reporting what has happened, not the teacher. haha. Now you know what some homeschool kids can be missing? Also the size of school in primary schools is alot larger, there will be many moments a child can be left alone, like going to the toilet/changing(there are toilets in many parts of the school) or running around looking for their schoolbags, going to the bookshop.....etc.. Some children can be so lost...do they need to learn how to steer themselves on their own? and do you know that the safest training ground is actually the school?I do not agree with your view that a child must be left alone out of parents' sight to fend for himself and a homeschooling child is necessarily \"protected\". If fights were to occur in school, would you not want the teachers to intervene? If a child goes to school, wouldn't he be under the watchful eye of his teachers? When is he ever left alone?
icemountain:
I am also a parent, instinctively we will look, even feel the presence. Letting go is complete when a child completely disappears under your nose and in another environment. Also, it may not be your issue, the child assumes mum is always there....so the sense of responsibility for oneself diminishes....\"She(mum) will look out for me\". This is the handicap impact on the child. It hurts to know the truth but better to come to terms with it.For one, I do not hover around my child when we go playgrounds. I don't know of many parents who do. If she were to have any disagreements, I let her be and would intervene only necessary. If she were to go school, I would rightly expect teachers to do the same.
icemountain:
Sorry if I have mistaken, I apologise sincerely because this thread is about 'gifted kids' ma... OK, gather your thoughts again... we are talking about homeschooling for \"only\" and for gifted \"only\" because this is thread for 'gifted' kids! got it? Maybe you just jump into this discussion without looking at the focus, I forgive you (tongue-in-cheek)I do not choose to homeschool because I think my child is advanced or superior. And homeschooling parents I've met do not say that their children are gifted too so I'm puzzled at your presumption. If people still thinking homeschooling = hothousing, I'm quite disappointed that this misconception still prevails. Perhaps it's better for them to read up more and get to know homeschoolers before making this assumption.
Misconception will always be there but the point here is not about homeschooling = hothousing so generally. Honestly, I am still not clear what you are trying to defend or argue. Cool down first and re-read my post, then you know it does not apply to you.
I just took your last statement to make a point on homeschooling for \"only\" because it refers to social interaction. I also qualify that the discussion is not directed at you but generally those with 'only' kid and homeschooling the kid. Hope this clarifies, no point growing a gray hair over my posting not meant for you specificallyicemountain:
Glad to know that she is not an \"only\" child.Edited to add: And nope, she's not the only child.
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I try to follow these rules when posting in forums. Hopefully everyone can read and understand these rules.
I wonder if some people really talk(in real life) like the way they write online ?
THE CORE RULES OF NETIQUETTE
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html
Quote:
Rule 1: Remember the human
The golden rule your parents and your kindergarten teacher taught you was pretty simple: Do unto others as you'd have others do unto you. Imagine how you'd feel if you were in the other person's shoes. Stand up for yourself, but try not to hurt people's feelings.
In cyberspace, we state this in an even more basic manner: Remember the human.
When you communicate electronically, all you see is a computer screen. You don't have the opportunity to use facial expressions, gestures, and tone of voice to communicate your meaning; words -- lonely written words -- are all you've got. And that goes for your correspondent as well.
Rule 2: Adhere to the same standards of behavior online that you follow in real life
In real life, most people are fairly law-abiding, either by disposition or because we're afraid of getting caught. In cyberspace, the chances of getting caught sometimes seem slim. And, perhaps because people sometimes forget that there's a human being on the other side of the computer, some people think that a lower standard of ethics or personal behavior is acceptable in cyberspace.
The confusion may be understandable, but these people are mistaken. Standards of behavior may be different in some areas of cyberspace, but they are not lower than in real life.
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