Any parents of gifted children here ?
-
kiasulang:
Likewise, I think you have overestimated the power of IQ tests and importance of the magic numbers. Here's a link on the development of IQ tests http://psychology.about.com/od/psychologicaltesting/a/int-history.htm (don't we enjoy culling info & researches from the internet to back up our beliefs?). This particular section catches my eyes.
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.
However, Binet himself did not believe that his psychometric instruments could be used to measure a single, permanent and inborn level of intelligence (Kamin, 1995). Binet stressed the limitations of the test, suggesting that intelligence is far too broad a concept to quantify with a single number. Instead, he insisted that intelligence is influenced by a number of factors, changes over time and can only be compared among children with similar backgrounds (Siegler, 1992)
Indeed, I believe many factors (such as more educated parents, nurturing environment) would affect the magic IQ number. And till now, has there been any credible IQ studies on kids from similar backgrounds vs different backgrounds to prove that gifted or IQ tests can indeed sift out true inborn intelligence? Even for the WISC test, can one deny a preschooler who's been spoken to in adult language since young would have a higher verbal score than one who who has only been exposed to baby language? Has anybody done a study to prove that IQ doesn't change over time? Then why the need to keep revising the numbers and ceilings? If we were to do a study over time, would the IQ results be the same for kids who lived a century ago and kids in today's fast moving world?
Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.
Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?
If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.
Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them. -
Hi everyone,
Please learn to respect different opinions.
I don't see why anyone has to criticize one parent's choice to homeschool, or to send his child for assessment, or send her child to Shichida etc. It is the parents' choice and it does not concern anyone else. Why are some people so ready to hurt other people's feelings ? Please learn to be more sensitive to others.
There is a reason why the title of my thread is \"Any parents of gifted children ?\" For those who do not believe in the term \"gifted\", why bother reading or posting in this thread ? You are free to create any other thread and post there. BTW, there is another thread called \"Is your child gifted ? Probably not.\" http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=913&start=30 That thread should be the place to argue about the term \"gifted\". -
chamonix:
Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.kiasulang:
I believe you have underestimate the IQ test systems, no amount of work you have done, can increase the IQ score. They have been around for decades and used as reference for admitting to some of the prestigious junior school and even U in the world. However, being gifted doesn't means you will be high achiever, unless you are intellectually gifted, self-discipline and hardworking plus luck.
The number system has always been around us, PSLE score, GCE score, A level score.....
Why do you think our GEP has survived 25 years and still counting? Every year the number about 500 will be selected. Our population is very small compared to others, how come we are always mentioned in international competitions? What makes the tiny country stands out in the world, I think this number is the key to success.
I believe bad behaviour is not one of the characteristics of giftedness. It is the growing stage of every child, whether within the parents' control or outside influence. When my elder son was young, about 3 years old, many of my friends and relatives saw him as a nuisance. However, I would say that he was only exploring his world. Today, I'm happy.Is GEP really surviving in our school context? Then how do you explain the GEP classes in secondary schools were totally scrapped? And really, can one equate gifted with GEP? If so, why are there minimum requirements to be met in GEP? To sift out those who got in by chance? Well then, doesn't that shed light on how credible the GEP tests are.
charmonix:
It sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???Does the number really make our country stand out internationally? Pardon me, I keep meeting people who wonder if Singapore is part of China. Since our education is so successful in churning out the precious successful number, then why is our education policies and systems changing constantly? And what does the number represent to others? The sad fact that Singapore is good at drilling. Have all the magical number make any significant contributions to the world? What makes them more superior than the rest?
charmonix:
How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?If Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison were to take the so called gifted tests when they were 4 or 5 years old, I do wonder what the number would be.
charmonix:
Yes, bad behaviour is part of growing up. No matter how badly our kids behave, most of us would discipline them and still think them as angels. However, I have heard of kids that misbehave in classes and show no respect to others. All their parents have to offer is that the kids are gifted and teachers should show more understanding towards them.
There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so. -
kiasulang:
Indeed. No one can force anyone to believe what others think. As many have expressed here, they don't need the magical number to believe that their kids are unique and special.
No test systems can claim that they are 100% sound. It is naive to think that one with reasonable mindset would believe that. It can only serve as an indicator like I had mentioned some treads before. It serves me well and I'm happy with it. Obviously, no one can force anyone to believe that.kiasulang:
Weird but from what I understand, the now so called school-based gifted education programme does accept kids who were not formerly from the primary GEP programme.Please refer to MOE site before you made that statement. GEP classes are not scrapped in Secondary school, they are merely not centrally run by GEB. Instead they are replaced by school-based gifted education programmes in their respective IP schools.
kiasulang:
Well, that's my encounter from staying abroad. And yes, I am putting my kids in the local primary school. Basically, I have neither complaints nor praises about our local education system. It has given me a good education despite its many imperfections.sad to read that you have received such negative feedbacks. I do have a few foreign friends who only praise our system. I have always supported my education systems. Through constantly changing and fault-findings, we can achieve a better one. I wondered if you would put your children to one of our primary schools???
kiasulang:
How do you know they will not score beyond the max limits? Why don't you ask them?
No, I don't know. If I ever have the chance to ask them, I'll definitely ask them to pay you a visit and share more on being gifted.kiasulang:
Yes, I agree. Not all but there are some black sheep.There are always extreme cases with extreme parents. That doesn't mean majority of kids are so.
kiasulang:
No, I don't believe that gifted can be trained. But I believe that there's a greater percentage of gifted children present in Singapore based on the current available gifted tests, meaning I believe we have more intelligent kids around. If the gifted tests were made affordable for preschoolers, I believe we will see a greater number of gifted cases than the current numbers.I have said before, a child can only be born gifted, and formally tested can you be certain that he/she is gifted. No amount of training, we, parents can do to make that happen. It is a gift, apart from that they are as normal as every one. However, no one will deny the fact that his child is gifted to him.
-
kiasulang:
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your kid's number seriously.
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by many smart (but unlabeled) kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too. What I think of gifted kids is that they are special (and sometimes, a pain) in their own ways. -
chamonix:
I'm not bother by any body. I'm just disgusted about what you said in this tread. I don't understand why you resent so much about assessing a child. Are you afraid of being disappointed? Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.kiasulang:
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too. -
kiasulang:
I'm not bother by any body. I'm just disgusted about what you said in this tread. I don't understand why you resent so much about assessing a child. Are you afraid of being disappointed? Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.[/quote]That goes for how I feel towards you too. The only thing you value most and talk about is just getting kids tested and the numbers they are tagged. Without the numbers, the kids are nothing... really a sad and revolting thought.
As I have mentioned countless times, I respect and keep stressing that the IQ quotient is important to the parents concerned. Neither does the number nor how the parent utilizes the number has no impact on me or others. You don't owe anybody an explanation. I may be wrong, but you seem bothered that nobody takes your number seriously.chamonix:
[quote=\"kiasulang\"]
It means a lot to me because it determines the number of child I woulld like to have.
Perhaps I come across as being sceptical about giftedness. But my view is every kid is gfited in his or her own way. Not meeting the list of standard gifted criteria doesn't imply the kid is any less precious than one who appears to meet the mark. Not having a IQ number tagged on the kid doesn't mean the kid is any less capable than one who has been formally labelled. And vice versa, a kid who's been suspected to be gifted or has been tagged gifted is neither more superior than the average normal kids. I am proud to say that I'm surrounded by average normal kids who are a joy to be with. And for friends with gifted kids or kids from GEP, I feel happy and proud for them too.
Indeed, I don't have a concrete number to talk about. Perhaps, you should announce the precious number and gather like-minded parents and discuss about the Numbers . Get my kids assessed just to join your club? No thanks, I wouldn't want to end up being obsessed with Numbers. Got better things to do.
Btw, I have nothing to whine. Both my kids are intelligent and happy children with absolute zero need for tagging. The tests will not tell me anything I don't already know nor change the way I view and love them. With or without the gfited label (by professional), to me, they are and always will be far more intelligent and precious than any other kids who has been tagged. -
insider:
Hi Insider,kiasulang:
Come join the club only if you have a child either in mensa or GEP before you whine. If not I have nothing to write to you.... with so much writing and nothing concrete.
As an educator, I celebrate the joy of taking care / educating young kids, whether they are average kids, beautiful / ugly, or with special needs (learning disabilities / physically handicapped / gifted / etc).
Since Chamonix's repeated words of she also shares similar stance of we should celebrate kids of any abilities seems to be fallen on deaf ears guess there is no point having further chicken and duck talk here. (I actually find her writing gentle and sensible all the while until maybe later part got agitated. I am reading her writing from an intellectual exchange point of view instead of trying to 'win' anything. Even till then, she still maintains her position that she is not objecting anybody from sending their kids for whatever testing that each deems fit.)
Go enjoy looking at your Numbers and do your own celebrations. Cheers!
Thanks for lending a voice. For a moment, I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.
Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this... -
chamonix:
No, you are not the odd one. I will not tag my child with a number or label. It is only indicative of some form of guidance and direction at best and that's all. Nothing is so absolute in life.I thought I must the only odd one to think kids are much more than just numbers.
Yup, enough of chicken and duck talk here. Never did I expect a simple sharing would spiral into this...
Some of us need a structure to guide our lives.
Some of us need a passion to guide our lives.
Most of us need both.
The extreme will always stand out. -
I'm not sure if I have the full picture - it's a LOONNG thread - but it seems like there is an ensuing argument about sending children for assessment?
Personally, I don't give 2 hoots about measuring the intelligence of my own children. Maybe I'm afraid I'll be disappointed by the test results as kiasulang postulated, but more because I have already accepted that my kids are just bright kids and not gifted by GEP's yardstick so I don't need no confirmation of that fact. But I can imagine how parents with truly gifted kids (in the GEP sense) would value such measurements just so they can confirm their suspicions and take the necessary action to work with such kids.
Also, I don't recall seeing anything posted by anybody who say that such assessments are evil. In fact, I felt that Chamonix went out of her way to explain her stand, which happens to be quite similar to mine. So I'm really puzzled how the discussion got so personal.
There is no need to use strong language directed at any individual in the Forum. If we parents cannot engage in discussions in a cordial manner, how can we expect our children to do so in their discussions?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better đź’—
Register Login