Homosexuality

[WeiHan]

I just feel that people don’t understand what they are talking about. You mean people struggle so much to make a choice that is disadvantages. You see the point? They know that there is prejudice and every factors are stacked against them, yet they choose to be homosexuals? Common sense will tell you that there is a strong innate biological traits that dictates his/her "so-cll choice" strongly. I am not denying that people have no choice at all, some people have a choice bcos they are bisexual.


And I want to clarify one point. Even though science does not claim to know everything but the process used by science is that of objectivity and once it is known, you can’t call it unknown anymore. Fact is that we have understood more and more thing through science. And whether, there is creator or not, we cannot stop thinking and merely attribute everything that we don’t understand to that.

You are entitled to have your own opinion even if it is against all evidences.

[3Boys]

WeiHan:

I just feel that people don't understand what they are talking about. You mean people struggle so much to make a choice that is disadvantages. You see the point? They know that there is prejudice and every factors are stacked against them, yet they choose to be homosexuals? Common sense will tell you that there is a strong innate biological traits that dictates his/her \"so-cll choice\" strongly. I am not denying that people have no choice at all, some people have a choice bcos they are bisexual.


And I want to clarify one point. Even though science does not claim to know everything but the process used by science is that of objectivity and once it is known, you can't call it unknown anymore. Fact is that we have understood more and more thing through science. And whether, there is creator or not, we cannot stop thinking and merely attribute everything that we don't understand to that.

You are entitled to have your own opinion even if it is against all evidences.

Well, yours is an oft used defence, and I disagree. And, it is not against all evidences, as you put it. Did you research this topic entirely from ground up, from an anthropological, evolutionary and theological perspective, or are you parroting the positions of the pro-gay camp, who unsurprisingly would be selective about what they put forth as 'evidence'. You state a position as if it were incontrovertible fact, well, it is not. It is a position, no more, no less. Before you cast stones, how much, dear sir, do you understand about the topic?

Do certain folk have certain propensities to certain behaviours? Of course. Some folk have a propensity to sexual addiction, some to problem gambling, some to alcoholism. Does it therefore make those behaviours excusable or allowable? I am not equating homosexual tendencies to those destructive behaviours, merely making a point that having a propensity to a certain tendency does not automatically excuse it or make it right.

We as humans are presumed to have a higher cognitive order and discerment, i.e., we don't just do what feels right at the point in time, but are able to make judgements about our feelings, actions and consequences thereof. Twin studies will show you there is concordance in MZ twins for homosexual behaviour, which is perhaps unsurprising, but the interesting fact is that there is also a high DIScordance, meaning we are not completely bound by genetics. i.e., we have a choice.

[Muffins]

Hi Kiasimom, I have actually had two experiences with these types of people, in p5, and in p6, but I still do not think that we should discriminate people due to the fact that they like people of the same gender. You should just decide on whether you are comfortable with them being your friends or not, and explain to them. Just my 2 cents worth.

[WeiHan]

3Boys:

Well, yours is an oft used defence, and I disagree. And, it is not against all evidences, as you put it. Did you research this topic entirely from ground up, from an anthropological, evolutionary and theological perspective, or are you parroting the positions of the pro-gay camp, who unsurprisingly would be selective about what they put forth as 'evidence'. You state a position as if it were incontrovertible fact, well, it is not. It is a position, no more, no less. Before you cast stones, how much, dear sir, do you understand about the topic?

Do certain folk have certain propensities to certain behaviours? Of course. Some folk have a propensity to sexual addiction, some to problem gambling, some to alcoholism. Does it therefore make those behaviours excusable or allowable? I am not equating homosexual tendencies to those destructive behaviours, merely making a point that having a propensity to a certain tendency does not automatically excuse it or make it right.

We as humans are presumed to have a higher cognitive order and discerment, i.e., we don't just do what feels right at the point in time, but are able to make judgements about our feelings, actions and consequences thereof. Twin studies will show you there is concordance in MZ twins for homosexual behaviour, which is perhaps unsurprising, but the interesting fact is that there is also a high DIScordance, meaning we are not completely bound by genetics. i.e., we have a choice.

I do know more than the twin studies that pointed to the biological basis for homosexuality including brain structure studies etc..And I have to clarify one common mistake including you that are making. By biological, it is not necessarily genetical.

Your logic that discordance in twin studies implies that we have a choice is flawed. Those discordance cases that showed that the other twin sibling isn't homosexuals. They didn't make any choice to be straight.

[corneyAmber]

Wei Han, theoretical discussion can only get us so far… If you know any homosexual friends, perhaps it can shed better light.

[corneyAmber]

WeiHan:

Yah...as if they will tell you who they are since some people already call them sinners; simply pull out verses from their book to justify themselves.

Btw, I know who they are and they tell me without qualms. Not supporting the idea of propagating this trend of choices does not mean that I am not able to be friends with gay people. This is also a wrong perception. They let me know because they see that I still respect them as an individual and do not discriminate them in any way, at work or at play. Of course, if they ask me would I allow my child to make a choice towards such a direction, it would be an emphatic \"No\" unless there are very good and valid reasons for making that choice.

[WeiHan]

ks2me:

Btw, I know who they are and they tell me without qualms. Not supporting the idea of propagating this trend of choices does not mean that I am not able to be friends with gay people. This is also a wrong perception. They let me know because they see that I still respect them as an individual and do not discriminate them in any way, at work or at play. Of course, if they ask me would I allow my child to make a choice towards such a direction, it would be an emphatic \"No\" unless there are very good and valid reasons for making that choice.

ks2me. If your child is not a homosexual, there is no point for you worrying that he/she will make such a choice because he/she will naturally be attracted to people of opposite sex and no influence can be bigger to change that. If he/she is a homosexual by sexual orientation, it is possible that he/she chooses a spouse of the opposite sex but then it will mean that he/she is not choosing a person that they really love to form a family with and you should know this is tragic both for him/her and their spouses. Did you watch the movie Brokeback Mountain?

[corneyAmber]

WeiHan:

ks2me. If your child is not a homosexual, there is no point for you worrying that he/she will make such a choice because he/she will naturally be attracted to people of opposite sex and no influence can be bigger to change that. If he/she is a homosexual by sexual orientation, it is possible that he/she chooses a spouse of the opposite sex but then it will mean that he/she is not choosing a person that they really love to form a family with and you should know this is tragic both for him/her and their spouses. Did you watch the movie Brokeback Mountain?

I know what you mean WeiHan, but human beings are very complex, I don't think I can claim to know all possibilities too. I know of at least 3 real people I know who changed their orientation because of dramatic events in their lives that affected them. The fear of being near a woman after some dramatic happening has naturally diverted them in the opposite way but they claimed they were born ok and they had normal relationships before..... I also know a group who are born to have such inclination from young so it varies.

So as far as I am concerned as a parent, I do believe in the power of influence, especially bad ones.

[WeiHan]

lovekidsverymuch:

ks2me:

So as far as I am concerned as a parent, I do believe in the power of influence, especially bad ones.

very true ks2me I agree :celebrate:

Well...bad or not bad can sometimes be rather subjective. It depends on your values system.

[3Boys]

WeiHan:

Your logic that discordance in twin studies implies that we have a choice is flawed. Those discordance cases that showed that the other twin sibling isn't homosexuals. They didn't make any choice to be straight.

Really?

And what part of those studies supports this contention?

As you are using the 'propensity' argument as a basis for 'rightness', and propensity is linked to genetic or para-genetic traits (or do you argue otherwise), then what other factor is coming into play to result in discordance? Could perhaps societal shaping and upbringing have a part? Perhaps parents who model gender roles appropriately?

Therefore, is it not possible that one's environment and upbringing can overturn 'propensity' and shape ones values, and allow one to lead a fulfilling mainstream life? That being the case, is it not incumbent on parents to at least attempt to do so, and exclude influences that may play on 'propensity'?

I.e. I recognise that there are individuals more prone to homosexual tendencies. This is a natural biological/evolutionary occurrence, completely to be expected. This is not to say that one needs to act on this 'propensity' or that he is necessarily more fulfilled by doing so. Again, for illustration only, is a 'propensed' gambling addict more fulfilled by acting out his destiny or curtailing it?

So, I do not choose for my children to go down this path. It can be a very destructive and unfulfilling one. I will teach them to be respectful of all individuals for who they are, but it is not the same as saying I accept homosexuality as 'normality'.

Last but not least, I do not predicate my child-rearing on scenarios and values propounded by a hollywood movie.