School Placement Exercise for returning S'porean children
-
mommyNg:
Just through the gravevine. MOE is generally tight lipped about information. I asked what are the odds of getting first choice, and they read the standard text from MOE website , something like \"depends on vacancies and applicants to particular school\". So why have a list? Again standard website text ... \"child assessed to be on par with the students in the school\". I guess the computer can only accept 6 choices. Methinks they want to avoid having to explain things to some who may inevitably be unhappy.[
Pardon my blurness... how to observe the situation for SPERS? Through grapevine or ask MOE? -
mommyNg:
Another question.... did any of you (or your friends) brought your child back for GEP screening/selection, and perhaps successfully get into the programme? I remember somewhere in this forum someone mentioned they brought their kid back for GEP screening, passed, but didn't get through the selection round.
GEP screening is useful because I think they select 8% (or is 6%?) after the first round. It gives information about where the child stands with respect to the Singapore student population. Most overseas parents are uncertain about where the child is compared with local standards.
In your case it is extra useful if your child passes the first stage, the PSLE strategy maybe worthwhile because 250 is about the top 10%. I think latest you can come back is P5. If child is in the Singapore International School HK, MOE conducts GEP first round test in the school, but you will have to be in Singapore for the second round. I think you have to write in by June for other places (see website). If child makes it to GEP and you decide to return, there are privileges, such as higher odds of getting into IP through DSA and GEP scholarship for Independent school. But I think child has to go through GEP to get these advantages; GEP bragging rights dont count.
If you decide to return, another way to boost the odds is to get exemption from Chinese, which the school and MOE are likely to give if you give good reason even if the child is doing well in Chinese, eg away from Singapore, dont speak Chinese at home, no Singapore style tuition available, hence child at disadvantage etc. Child should still take MT lessons and keep up, since NYGH is SAP school and will require a standard like A* in normal Chinese. No need to be discouraged by this requirement as about 80% of the national cohort gets A/A* in Chinese. Once you're in the school, you can get feedback as to whether child meets the Chinese standard to get into NYGH even though not taking PSLE Chinese. I know a case where returnee exempted Chinese, got posted to IP school, and appealed and got into HCI. Trick is have evidence that the child is capable of handling Higher Chinese and the reason for exemption is that the child needs time to catch up to local standards since at disadvantage without the local support system (e.g. tuition, daily environment). Besides having one less subject to mug, my feeling is that there is more room to improve in other subjects. About 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci whereas it's 80% for Chinese; which means there is more room to improve for other subjects. So even if you get 100% for Chinese, the average raw score for Chinese is likely to be high and hence Chinese T-score may not be that high. Must qualify that this is my speculation and a lot depends on the child's Chinese standard. -
hoskins8h:
Correction: A is 25 percent of each cohort.GEP screening is useful because I think they select 8% (or is 6%?) after the first round. It gives information about where the child stands with respect to the Singapore student population. Most overseas parents are uncertain about where the child is compared with local standards.
In your case it is extra useful if your child passes the first stage, the PSLE strategy maybe worthwhile because 250 is about the top 10%. I think latest you can come back is P5. If child is in the Singapore International School HK, MOE conducts GEP first round test in the school, but you will have to be in Singapore for the second round. I think you have to write in by June for other places (see website). If child makes it to GEP and you decide to return, there are privileges, such as higher odds of getting into IP through DSA and GEP scholarship for Independent school. But I think child has to go through GEP to get these advantages; GEP bragging rights dont count.
If you decide to return, another way to boost the odds is to get exemption from Chinese, which the school and MOE are likely to give if you give good reason even if the child is doing well in Chinese, eg away from Singapore, dont speak Chinese at home, no Singapore style tuition available, hence child at disadvantage etc. Child should still take MT lessons and keep up, since NYGH is SAP school and will require a standard like A* in normal Chinese. No need to be discouraged by this requirement as about 80% of the national cohort gets A/A* in Chinese. Once you're in the school, you can get feedback as to whether child meets the Chinese standard to get into NYGH even though not taking PSLE Chinese. I know a case where returnee exempted Chinese, got posted to IP school, and appealed and got into HCI. Trick is have evidence that the child is capable of handling Higher Chinese and the reason for exemption is that the child needs time to catch up to local standards since at disadvantage without the local support system (e.g. tuition, daily environment). Besides having one less subject to mug, my feeling is that there is more room to improve in other subjects. About 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci whereas it's 80% for Chinese; which means there is more room to improve for other subjects. So even if you get 100% for Chinese, the average raw score for Chinese is likely to be high and hence Chinese T-score may not be that high. Must qualify that this is my speculation and a lot depends on the child's Chinese standard. -
xxjustakidxx:
For Eng, Math, Sci, 25% for A sounds correct, means about 20% for A*; in line with a conversation I had with a teacher.
Correction: A is 25 percent of each cohort.
Just to clarify, when I mentioned 44% for A/A* means 44% got A or better. For some reason, the info I gleaned from the \"official\" data do not break down between A and A*. -
If, as you mentioned, about 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci but it is 80% for Chinese, this means it is easier to get an A/A* for Chinese?? I suppose this means 80% of those students taking Chinese, or does that mean the whole cohort.
I thought there were some discussions in another thread saying that an A in Chinese is worth more in terms of T-score than an A in, say, Math or Eng? Hence, if one is pretty good in Chinese, then he/she should take Chinese (and not exemption) cos’ he/she will have a greater chance of getting a higher PSLE T-score? -
mommyNg:
Yes about 80% of students taking Chinese (other MT similar) get A/A*. As far as I know, all subjects are equally weighted even though Eng and MT are marked upon 200 marks. Officially MOE says that with exemption, T-score is adjusted so that student is \"neither disadvantaged or advantaged\", so my guess is that with exemption, T-score is equally weighted based on 3 subjects. If that is correct, then one should exempt based on whether Chinese T-score is likely to be above or below the average of the other 3 subjects.If, as you mentioned, about 44% of students get A/A* for Eng, Math, Sci but it is 80% for Chinese, this means it is easier to get an A/A* for Chinese?? I suppose this means 80% of those students taking Chinese, or does that mean the whole cohort.
I thought there were some discussions in another thread saying that an A in Chinese is worth more in terms of T-score than an A in, say, Math or Eng? Hence, if one is pretty good in Chinese, then he/she should take Chinese (and not exemption) cos' he/she will have a greater chance of getting a higher PSLE T-score?
My analysis suggests that exemption is likely to be better because there is \"more room to improve\" in the other non-MT subjects as average subject raw scores are likely to be lower. 85% marks for MT is likely to be a lower T-score than an 85% for other subjects.
Having said that, most parents want our children to learn Chinese well and exemption from PSLE may affect the learning attitude. I overcome this by telling my child that exemption is only for PSLE and it is Higher Chinese in secondary school. The point being that PSLE Chinese affects T-score and streaming, whilst HCL at O level is a pass/fail requirement for local university and does not affect A level score.
If I may guess, you're probably not based in Asia, so having access to Chinese education at the required level may prove difficult overseas and the decision to exempt may come naturally. -
hoskins8h:
News today that MOE considering lowering the weightage of Mother Tongue. It till take a few years before they decide and implement. Article also mentions that the current weighting for MT is 25%, so it is equally weighted.
... As far as I know, all subjects are equally weighted ...
I've gathered enough info to be convinced that this is so, because I too was puzzled when I returned to Singapore and found out that Eng and MT was marked upon 200 marks. Thought things were like they were back in my time when the 2 languages were double weighted.
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_517143.html -
hoskins8h, if you are exempted from CL at PSLE, can you take HCL in Secondary School? I’m wondering because I know if you are exempted from CL at PSLE due to a learning disability, you will not be permitted to take HCL nor 3rd language in Secondary School. Is it different for returning overseas students?
-
turquoise:
hoskins8h, if you are exempted from CL at PSLE, can you take HCL in Secondary School? I'm wondering because I know if you are exempted from CL at PSLE due to a learning disability, you will not be permitted to take HCL nor 3rd language in Secondary School. Is it different for returning overseas students?
If you have exemption due to learning disability for MT, then it's illogical to take HCL at O level. Some returning Singaporeans are pretty weak in MT and exemption is natural. For some others, while the child may cope, the child may be at a disadvantage due to not having the local learning support, eg suitable tuition, Chinese lang media exposure. Even kids who attend international schools in China may be weak in Chinese as the schools may cater to an international crowd and treat Chinese as enrichment subject.
My older child is taking HCL in secondary school. As I mentioned, one returnee exempted MT made a successful appeal to be admitted to HCI at sec 1. Going through SPERS, 3rd lang option is not given, but I think if you appeal, can get it. -
hoskins8h:
Thanks for the info.[If you have exemption due to learning disability for MT, then it's illogical to take HCL at O level. Some returning Singaporeans are pretty weak in MT and exemption is natural. For some others, while the child may cope, the child may be at a disadvantage due to not having the local learning support, eg suitable tuition, Chinese lang media exposure. Even kids who attend international schools in China may be weak in Chinese as the schools may cater to an international crowd and treat Chinese as enrichment subject.
My older child is taking HCL in secondary school. As I mentioned, one returnee exempted MT made a successful appeal to be admitted to HCI at sec 1. Going through SPERS, 3rd lang option is not given, but I think if you appeal, can get it. -
hoskins8h:
Thanks hoskins8h for your helpful advice!
If I may guess, you're probably not based in Asia, so having access to Chinese education at the required level may prove difficult overseas and the decision to exempt may come naturally.
We are currently not based in Asia, but my daughter has been going to a Chinese afterschool class everyday that is taught by Chinese locals for the past 2 years. Last year, when we came back for summer, she joined her P1 class for 2 months. There, she took a Chinese class test (Higher Chinese), and she scored about 96%. But I think her reading/comprehension is better than her orals/writing skills anyway (the test was mainly made up of MCQ, cloze passage, hanyu pinyin). I also suppose P1 standards are much easier than upper primary? Then, another consideration is we are probably moving to China next year, in which case we will be sending her to a local international school which follows the local Chinese system for Chinese and American for others (e.g. Maths, Science). So I'm just thinking whether such exposure would be good enough for her if her MT is not waived.
But then again, we can always ask for waiver first and then decide to withdraw the waiver later, right? Do you know when must we submit our waiver? -
mommyNg:
Yes, I would suggest that you ask for waiver first then if you change your mind, can always register for PSLE Chinese at the beginning of P6. I know a case where waiver was turned down when parents asked for it after more than a year. However, in this case, parents were not unhappy as there were reasons for not exempting. mommyNg, I sent PM to give you my views on your situation.
But then again, we can always ask for waiver first and then decide to withdraw the waiver later, right? Do you know when must we submit our waiver?hoskins8h:
If I may guess, you're probably not based in Asia, so having access to Chinese education at the required level may prove difficult overseas and the decision to exempt may come naturally. -
hoskins8h:
Thanks hoskins8h!
Yes, I would suggest that you ask for waiver first then if you change your mind, can always register for PSLE Chinese at the beginning of P6. I know a case where waiver was turned down when parents asked for it after more than a year. However, in this case, parents were not unhappy as there were reasons for not exempting. mommyNg, I sent PM to give you my views on your situation.
:thankyou: -
Hello everyone!
Just signed up myself here and hopefully I come to the right forumWondering is there anyone here had experience dealing with the Sper exam? My DS attended the exam 2 weeks ago and now we are waiting MOE to inform the result
Maybe someone could help me to understand more about the whole process? Thank you!!
-
vnchjpth:
MOE will email you (check MOE website for date) a list of schools that your child is \"eligible\" out of which you can select 6 schools in order of your priority. If your DS does well, all schools (except girls school of course) will be on the list, otherwise some of the top ones wont be on the list. Please refer to previous posts on this forum. I had 4 days to submit the selection online. Posting results same day as other PSLE students (22 Dec), via email.Hello everyone!
Just signed up myself here and hopefully I come to the right forumWondering is there anyone here had experience dealing with the Sper exam? My DS attended the exam 2 weeks ago and now we are waiting MOE to inform the result
Maybe someone could help me to understand more about the whole process? Thank you!!
The posting is final (since no PSLE score to compare), except the tricky part is if you get posted to a SAP school which may require child to sit for a Chinese test. Danger is if the school rejects based on the test, you are out of the system and have to approach the other schools directly (at least that's what MOE told me). NYGH say their requirement is equivalent of A* for CL (not as scary since 80% get at least an A in CL) or Merit for HCL. May not be a problem is your child is strong, perhaps you can call the target school, send samples of school work etc to get comfort that your DS will not be rejected. I dropped all SAP schools since I didnt have time to sit the test before the selection.
Another warning:- I've learnt that one of the IP schools called the parents of an overseas student and asked if the child was returning to take up the place otherwise they would give it to someone else; this caught the family off-guard. I think you should ask MOE what the policy is, because my guess is the child can hold a place through LOA. I think returning singaporeans have a week to register, unlike PSLE students who only have the next day. -
If you are not in Singapore on 23 Dec and after, you should get a proxy to register your child in the school he is posted to.
http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/admissions/secondary-one-posting/files/s1-proxy-form.pdf
You'll need to supply copies of birth cert of child, ICs of both parents and proxy, and proxy needs to bring IC. (It's written on the form). Suggest you also authorise proxy to apply for LOA (Leave of Absence) on your behalf. -
Dear hoskins8h,
Thank you so much for your clear explaination. :thankyou:
It has been a nerve racking experience dealing with the school application process. After hearing so many stories about overseas childern facing hard time finding a suitable school back home, we are really counting on this MOE Spers.
In the previous years the questions of SPERS exam was told to be easier than of the DSA. However, this year was a totally different case, according to friend's kids who took both. I regretted for not preparing DS earlier, especially for math. As only later I realised that many children stopped schoolling from June (summer holiday) and just soly concentrated on the tuition. I didn't understand the exam could be as competitive as this until I saw hundreds of kids in the Suntec convention hall where the exam took place. Thus for those who intend to do the exam next year, I would strongly suggest to start planning earlier. Especailly for kids who are so used to the international school system, SPERS is a completely different experience.
Again, thank you :rahrah: hoskins8h :rahrah: for your very helpful input. Now, I am crossing fingers for the result. :xedfingers:
Cheers! -
Have you heard of any cases as in \"Appeal Applciation\" for returning Sporeans? Some school websites ask the returnig students to submit their appeal form (PDF form) along with past transcripts/cert./achievement to the respective school for reviewing and the result will be out in the last week of Dec. It sounds very similar to the PSLE appeal process, except that the schools do not ask for PSLE scores in RS's cases. Is it a new practice as I never heard that before? :?
-
vnchjpth:
Is there a DSA test for returning Singaporeans??? :? Administered by individual schools or by MOE? I only heard about SPERS and PSLE though.
In the previous years the questions of SPERS exam was told to be easier than of the DSA. However, this year was a totally different case, according to friend's kids who took both.
Good luck to you!!! -
mommyNg:
It is the same DSA meant for local P6 students, but returning Sporean are also eligible to apply through this channel. Friend's child tried some schools but it was difficult. As previous posts mentioned, it is to compete against the local students.
Is there a DSA test for returning Singaporeans??? :? Administered by individual schools or by MOE? I only heard about SPERS and PSLE though.
Good luck to you!!!