Any Updates As To When PSLE T-Scores Will Be Scrapped?

[zulu]

phtthp:

ngl2010:

This is scary if the scenario mentioned happens.


http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=87269

shocking !
esp. for weak students

in the author's example, there are two weak students : X and Y
weak because : they are hovering riskily, around the low AL band, at AL5 and AL6.


AL5 : ranges from 65 to 74 marks, and
AL6 : ranges from 45 to 64


example

student X : scored 64 marks, in each of his 4 core subjects
Total Raw score = 64 x 4 = 256

per subject : fall into AL6
hence, Total AL = 6 x 4 subjects ==> AL 24

with AL 24 :
X can only qualify for Normal (Academic) stream.


in contrast, How about student Y ?
student Y : scored 45 marks in 2 subjects, plus 65 in another 2 subjects
Total Raw score = (45 x 2) + (65 x 2) = 90 + 130 = 220

2 subjects, for Y : fall into AL5
another 2 subjects : fall into AL6
hence, Total AL for Y = (5 x2) + (6 x 2) = 10 + 12 ==> AL 22

with AL 22 :
Y qualify to opt, for either Express or Normal stream.
Y can then opt, for the Express stream.


But, Who actually performed better ?
X (at 256), or Y (at 220), for Total Raw score ?

Under the new PSLE AL Banding system :
it means that X who scored 256 marks in four subjects would enter or get channeled into the Normal (Academic) stream.
In contrast, Y who scored lower 220 marks, (256 - 220 = 36 marks), much lower than X, would qualify for the Express stream.
This outcome is unfair to the one, who did much better.
:?

deleted

Edit: I think I finally understand what the author is getting at......

[Hope21]

Currently,more than 70% score A/A* in Chinese under the old system. So most able to score between AL1 to AL4 for Chinese.

For the other 3 subjects,national quality passes(A/A*) are usually around 40+%.

[sushi88]

pirate:

various people:

As a kiasuparent...

As such a kiasuparent, I am afraid nothing can be done to reduce the child's stress. The child will just have to blame his or her bad luck. :razz:

I agree... :rotflmao:

[janet88]

I wonder how Mr Ng worked out this new grading system.

[mum_sugoku]

pirate:

mum_sugoku:

To resolve this issue, how about lowering the requirement for AL1, from requiring a score of 90+ to, say, 75+ (ie AL1 for 75 and above, AL2 for 70-74, so on and so forth), just for MTL only?

So for those who are strong in MTL and weak in, say maths, can reduce the AL1 requirement for maths to 75+ etc, just for maths only?

Just wondering how is a suggestion like this even fair to other children who are wired differently from those who are weak in MTL? Sounds like nothing more than \"make the subjects my kid is strong at count for more, and the subject my kid is weak at count for less\". :roll:

When I made such a suggestion, I was looking at the issue from a different angle, completely overlooking the issue of fairness.

My consideration is, under the new system, the likelihood of AL score being (drastically) dragged down by Chinese will get very much higher, causing more and more (kiasu) parents/students to resent the subject and wish it excluded from AL score. We'll then see more and more parents petition for the exclusion. Ultimately, it could get so overwhelming that government just yield to the pressure (in order not to lose votes :evil: ). If that happens, students will pay less attention to the subject, causing the (already lousy) standard of Chinese to deteriorate further.

But if you just lower the bar, the resentment will not be that great, so less chance of parents wanting it excluded, less chance of government yielding, students still need to pay attention to Chinese to do well for decent score, win win, right?

[sushi88]

The bigger stress of parents come from:


1. Not able to get the kids to be consistent in their performance (yo-yo in attitude)
2. Kids who always perform borderline to the stellar level (so near and yet so far..just missing that extra bit..so frustrate the parents)
3. Non-motivated kids due to either immaturity, life-is-too-good-to try-hard, lack of interest.
4. Not recognizing a kid has other talent precious other than academic (which is not the strength)
that can be developed. Primary school education is basic so at least must pass.
5. Kid has no other talent and no talent in studies (this case seemed the worst but every kid has some form of talent, just gotta look hard enough)

Can a change in the PSLE system change any of these?

A system is dead once set....the kids are alive.

The way I see the new system can reduce stress is the \"face factor\" and mind you, this is an important factor for stress relief in our competitive society.

Under the neck-to-neck ranking system, it is starkly obvious when a child does not get into a \"good enough\" school...people will directly attribute it to results, like it or not.

In the new system, if a child is in any school, it is attributed to choice. Even if one does not get into their choiced school, parents can say \"sway lor...kenna balloted out\"... So stress is reduced right?

[grimm]

mum_sugoku:

pirate:

[quote=\"mum_sugoku\"]To resolve this issue, how about lowering the requirement for AL1, from requiring a score of 90+ to, say, 75+ (ie AL1 for 75 and above, AL2 for 70-74, so on and so forth), just for MTL only?

So for those who are strong in MTL and weak in, say maths, can reduce the AL1 requirement for maths to 75+ etc, just for maths only?

Just wondering how is a suggestion like this even fair to other children who are wired differently from those who are weak in MTL? Sounds like nothing more than \"make the subjects my kid is strong at count for more, and the subject my kid is weak at count for less\". :roll:

When I made such a suggestion, I was looking at the issue from a different angle, completely overlooking the issue of fairness.

My consideration is, under the new system, the likelihood of AL score being (drastically) dragged down by Chinese will get very much higher, causing more and more (kiasu) parents/students to resent the subject and wish it excluded from AL score. We'll then see more and more parents petition for the exclusion. Ultimately, it could get so overwhelming that government just yield to the pressure (in order not to lose votes :evil: ). If that happens, students will pay less attention to the subject, causing the (already lousy) standard of Chinese to deteriorate further.

But if you just lower the bar, the resentment will not be that great, so less chance of parents wanting it excluded, less chance of government yielding, students still need to pay attention to Chinese to do well for decent score, win win, right?[/quote]Don't worry, at the moment they will probably lose more votes if they exclude Chinese as the conservatives / traditionalists will be fuming. Maybe another generation later we will have a shot say removing it completely.

[anxious.01501dad]

mum_sugoku:

When I made such a suggestion, I was looking at the issue from a different angle, completely overlooking the issue of fairness.

My consideration is, under the new system, the likelihood of AL score being (drastically) dragged down by Chinese will get very much higher, causing more and more (kiasu) parents/students to resent the subject and wish it excluded from AL score. We'll then see more and more parents petition for the exclusion. Ultimately, it could get so overwhelming that government just yield to the pressure (in order not to lose votes :evil: ). If that happens, students will pay less attention to the subject, causing the (already lousy) standard of Chinese to deteriorate further.

But if you just lower the bar, the resentment will not be that great, so less chance of parents wanting it excluded, less chance of government yielding, students still need to pay attention to Chinese to do well for decent score, win win, right?

I think the MTL is a recognised \"problem\". Hence, this subject has always been graded using a different curve compared to EMS, as shared by Hope21 above. Under the current system, the mean t-score is at 50, yet the % of \"A\" scorers is more than 70% for MTL including Chinese. To me, that will translate to at least 20% of \"A\" grade scorers getting a t-score of <50 for their MTL whereas an \"A\" grade scorer in the other 3 subjects can be assured of a t-score of >50. To me, an \"A\" for MTL in the current system is a \"feel good\" grade as it may well be the subject that drags down the overall t-score if it is a weak A. With the rising of China, this should provide more motivation to learn Chinese as it will impact the child's future.

[floppy]

sushi88:

In the new system, if a child is in any school, it is attributed to choice. Even if one does not get into their choiced school, parents can say \"sway lor...kenna balloted out\"... So stress is reduced right?

The root cause of the stress faced in PSLE isn't in the exam per se. The stress comes from the parents and their level of expectations. Changing the system that the exam is graded won't reduce any stress or anxiety as long as the parents eyes are dead set on one or two schools and comparison between their peers.

[Zappy]

floppy:

The root cause of the stress faced in PSLE isn't in the exam per se. The stress comes from the parents and their level of expectations. Changing the system that the exam is graded won't reduce any stress or anxiety as long as the parents eyes are dead set on one or two schools and comparison between their peers.

Fundamentally, it all boils down to a single equation.

There is a limited number of slots at highly-desired schools, (be it top tier, 2nd tier or whatever you want to categorize them into )with a much larger number of students that want to get into those schools.

So unless you have a situation where anyone can get into any school and they will expand the enrollment in an unlimited way, there has to be a cut-off somewhere.

If T-scores are not desired as a cut-off, a new method AL is born.
If AL turns out to be more stressful, then another way will be created in future.

Whichever way it is, with demand > supply, a cut-off will need to be determined and parents / students will devise some ways to gain an advantage, be it more tuition to boost academic scores, special classes to ace interviews, renowned coaches to groom sports/ artistic/ musical talent.

So the stress levels will always be there - just a matter of how it is channeled based on what system is in place during that time. And the arguments of how some people are advantaged over others will persist too.