Pei Hwa Presbyterian Primary
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phtthp:
The VP of PHPPS just gave me a call to assure me that devotion is optional. She informs me that parents of P1 and P2 students can opt to send their children to school after devotion which ends at 12:50pm but before pledge-taking starts. Also, the form teacher may be informed to sit your child aside from the devotion to do \"silent reading\" during devotion. These were not clearly communicated, intentionally or not, during the 1st day of school.
currently, are there any Malay students from Muslim family, or any Indian students from Hindu family, studying inside Pei Hwa Presbyterian primary, but taking Chinese as 2nd language ?limnieng:
I'm not that upset about my child's outburst, I understand they're dealing with instructions (sometimes contradictory) from different people.
However, I must disagree that I have to adhere to school policy on this matter. This is not simply a matter of schools having the freedom to determine how they want to run their school. This is an issue that violates MOE's directive that all school have to be secular schools and refrain from proselytising regardless of religious affiliation!
Government schools with religious affiliations are still public institutions, and if they are allowed to proselytize to their pupil regardless of the pupils or parents' religion, and then say \"if you don't like it, get out!\", that akin to hijacking governmental resource and infrastructure (i.e. taxpayer's money and the government school system) to promote individual religious agenda. To tell parents and students that the option is either to accept the school's proselytising or to get out is blatant bigotry in a public institution.
Allow me to repost an extract from the PM's National Day Rally speech in 2009:
\"Our schools are another example where we have common space, and where all races and religions interact. In government schools, but even in mission schools. Even in church schools run by religious groups, there are clear rules which MOE has set so that students of all faiths will feel comfortable. You might ask: Why not allow mission schools to introduce prayers or Bible studies as compulsory parts of the school’s activity or as part of school assembly. Why not?
Why not let those who are not Christian or do not want a Christian environment go to a government school or go to a Buddhist school? Well, the reason why not is because if we do that, then we will have Christians in Christian schools, Buddhists in Buddhist schools, Muslims in schools with only Muslim children and so on. And I think that that is not good for Singapore.
Therefore, we have rules to keep all our schools secular and the religious groups understand and accept this. Take for example SJI. It is a St Joseph’s Catholics brother school, but it has many non-Catholic students including quite a number of Malay students who study there. And one year the Josephian of the year in 2003 was a Malay student, Salman Mohamed Khair. And he told Berita Harian that initially his family was somewhat worried about admitting him to a Catholic school and he himself was worried, afraid because he did not know what to expect but he still went because of SJI’s good record. He said “Now, I feel fortunate to be in SJI. Although I was educated in a Catholic environment, religion never became an issue”.
So indeed that is how it should work and I know it works because I understand that Malay students in SJI often attend Friday prayers at Ba’alwi Mosque nearby, still wearing their school uniforms. And SJI thinks it is fine, the mosque thinks it is find, the students think it is fine and I think it is fine too. That is the way it should be.\"
So I think MOE and the government's stance on this issue is very clear, and if my understanding on what PHPPS is doing is accurate, it is in direct violation of school guidelines and causing harm to the social fabric of our multi-religious society.
(these Malay & Indian students : possible that one of their parents may be a Chinese, can be a Chinese father or a Chinese mother)
during devotion time early morning, where do these students go & occupy their time ?
surely there must be an option to opt out, if students & families totally feel un-comfortable, attending devotion time
The following is what I emailed to the P and VPs after our communication:
\"Thank you Mrs Hiew for your prompt phone call and reassurance.
I’m glad to hear from you that the devotion activity is optional, and that this is simply a singular case of miscommunication where the optionality of planned religious activities in the school has not been clearly communicated to parents.
I understand from our conversation that attendance is taken after the devotion, and the children are only marked as late if they failed to turn up for pledge-taking. As the devotion for afternoon classes begins from 12:30pm and last till 12:50pm, we can plan for our child to be in the hall by 12:50pm before pledge-taking. Due to CCAs, there are certain days where the children will be send to school earlier and will have to be in the hall by 12:30pm. Or when children taking school buses have to uniformly arrived in school by 12:30pm. In such cases, I understand that the form teacher will approach the child of non-religious parents and sit them out from the devotion period.
Religious activities in public governmental schools is a sensitive issue that I feel have to be handled with care. I hope the school can clearly inform non-religious parents of any future religious activities scheduled by the school before they are carried out, and how we can arrange for our children to opt out of such activities.
Thank you again for your clarification.\"
I'm glad that PHPPS understands this is the right thing to do, and that future instances of \"miscommunication\" can be avoided. -
Glad that the school has provided a much clearer stance.
In my case, I encouraged my boys to pay attention to the Christian Values sessions. During my elder boy’s time, there was a CV period each week. A preacher from the church next door would conduct the session, telling stories from the Bible, asking the pupils about the Bibles teachings etc. I even agreed to my elder boy’s request for a Bible which he read from page 1 to the last page (I presumed) and he was able to contribute during the CV session. Maybe I was lucky that the preacher was sensitive to the fact that there were non-Christian pupils in the class and did not introduce radical beliefs.
Around that same time, my sisters-in-law became Christians. One of the sisters-in-law told my elder boy something along the line that only Christians go to Heaven when they die and other non-believers go to Hell.
My elder boy who was not quite disturbed by such, came to ask me about what he was told. I was taught Buddhism during secondary school days. Hence I shared my views on what he heard from the aunt. All ended well.
Of course, I gave that sister-in-law a warning. Till today, both sisters-in-law do not talk about Christianity to my boys.
My boys were 4 years apart in age. By the time my younger boy enrolled in PH, the CV sessions was conducted by a parent volunteer, not a preacher from the church next door. Somehow the CV curriculum was not the same as my elder boy’s time and I feel that the younger boy did not get a neutral perspective from the parent volunteer. Subsequently, I did not see CV on the time table for the other years.
Does the time table have a dedicated CV period now? Or only devotion before the class starts?
I rather my children know about other religions, then decide for themselves which beliefs they like to adopt. I do not mind them getting the exposure from the school itself. -
Jennifer:
The school now have devotion everyday before class starts, lasting 20-30 mins I believe, but I'm unsure who conducts these sessions.Maybe I was lucky that the preacher was sensitive to the fact that there were non-Christian pupils in the class and did not introduce radical beliefs......
By the time my younger boy enrolled in PH, the CV sessions was conducted by a parent volunteer, not a preacher from the church next door. Somehow the CV curriculum was not the same as my elder boy's time and I feel that the younger boy did not get a neutral perspective from the parent volunteer. Subsequently, I did not see CV on the time table for the other years.
Does the time table have a dedicated CV period now? Or only devotion before the class starts?
I rather my children know about other religions, then decide for themselves which beliefs they like to adopt. I do not mind them getting the exposure from the school itself.
However, I must point out that it is not about whether the person preaching is qualified or sensitive to non-Christians (though getting someone who understands less about the religion is detrimental on its own), or if the religion has \"radical beliefs\" (But are you saying if the preacher had only Christian pupils in the class, then he'll start to introduce radical beliefs!?!?). I think everyone is in agreement that Christianity is an excellent religion that teaches some good values and beliefs, and the same can be said for Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism etc. But the very act of proselytising a religion to non-believers or people who do not wish to be proselytised to, even if the act of proselytising is concealed in the guise of \"sharing\" or \"story-telling\", is already offensive and insensitive in itself, regardless of how sensitive or qualified the proselytiser is. This is because there is no such thing as a neutral religious belief.
The point is: Government schools, even if they are mission school with religious affiliation, should not and must not exploit the school apparatus to proselytize. These schools can, of course, provide activities and programmes that reflect their religious beliefs and construct their unique school identity. However, these activities and programmes based on religious contents cannot be mandatorily enforced on parents and students across the board via the school curriculum and system. Families with aligned religious beliefs are free to take advantage of these religious programmes provided by the school, but non-believers must be free from the duress of having a religion forced down their throats, especially if it's being strong-armed by a school system that is supposed to be secular.
I think it would be fair to say that \"devotion\" every single day in the morning or afternoon for 6 years is more than simply \"exposure\" to religion. -
Is there any parents from Primary 2 Respect 1 keen to link up? We just joined the class this year.
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The school has been having devotion session everyday since I was a student there 30 yrs ago, and much longer before that. We even have bible studies lessons within the timetable. As much as I believe non believers should be allowed to do their silent reading during this time, and I understand this to be the current practice, I also believe that if parents are not comfortable, they shouldnt be sending their children to study in the school in the first place. Give up the slot, there’ll be many who are eager to take it up with no complains.
Not trying to start a war here. Just my point of view. -
farmermum:
non christians are allowed to do something else. HCL is compulsory from p1. if parents feel their kids can't cope, then it's better to consider another school.The school has been having devotion session everyday since I was a student there 30 yrs ago, and much longer before that. We even have bible studies lessons within the timetable. As much as I believe non believers should be allowed to do their silent reading during this time, and I understand this to be the current practice, I also believe that if parents are not comfortable, they shouldnt be sending their children to study in the school in the first place. Give up the slot, there'll be many who are eager to take it up with no complains.
Not trying to start a war here. Just my point of view. -
my family believes in buddhism.
my kids attended a christian kindy. son attended pei hwa and daughter is in a catholic school. whether it is buddhism, catholics or christian, these are religions which instill right values. my daughter doesn’t attend catholic lessons but civil and moral education instead. until now, they have not asked to be christians or catholics. it’s perfectly ok for them to know more about other religions. -
I think it is not a matter about Christians or non Christians. But rather, the school/ principal has (if I may loosely use this word) "withheld" information on opting out from the devotion before school starts during the parents’ orientation.
I do not think this is what all of us who has integrity will do so. It is human affinity with God .
There are many avenues for the school to try to preach such as the recess prayers and a preacher and what’s not. You don’t have to "withhold" information.
So food for thoughts. With the withholding of information, is this what we are trying to teach the kids to speak the truth and hide the facts? Is this what the school is trying to enforce? -
Choosing which primary school to send our child to is a major decision which most of us will do a fair amount of homework to check out the school- the culture, the PSLE achievements, etc.
Personally I spoke to friends to find out what the school was like before I submitted the application.
I am more inclined to believe that the school made an oversight (some might feel strongly that this is a gross mistake to make) in not informing parents, in written letter or orally that opt out of devotion time is available. -
Jennifer:
agree with you.Choosing which primary school to send our child to is a major decision which most of us will do a fair amount of homework to check out the school- the culture, the PSLE achievements, etc.
Personally I spoke to friends to find out what the school was like before I submitted the application.
I am more inclined to believe that the school made an oversight (some might feel strongly that this is a gross mistake to make) in not informing parents, in written letter or orally that opt out of devotion time is available.
with P1 registration coming up soon, parents need to understand their kids' characters before registering in the school. pei hwa is a SAP school, and HCL is compulsory from P1.
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