[PSLE MT] PSLE less weightage in Chinese / Mother Tongue

[Donkey Kong]

ChiefKiasu:

I only have 1 thing to say in this matter.


Let's ask ourselves: How often in the last year have we applied what we have learnt in Science and Maths in Primary school in our work? When was the last time we had to draw math models to solve our workplace problems? And when did we need to submit a report to our bosses about the water cycle?

Next, ask ourselves: How many opportunities have we missed in the last year in either working in China or doing businesses where mastery of the Chinese language would have given us a great advantage? How many shows have we watched in Korean or Japanese that only have Chinese subtitles?

Finally ask ourselves, in the next 20 years, how will our answers to the above questions change. That will provide the answer to whether Chinese should be weighted lower than Science and Maths in our children's examinations.

Think most of us don't want to lower weightage becoz CL is easy to score! A* :lol: statistics shows more than 75% pupils scored A* in CL.
:celebrate:

If CL standard raised till only 10% score A*, think many pple will vote otherwise. :lol:

Actually, our A* is no fight with Taiwan/China pple. Some of our staff go China, chinese language one-piece one piece ..... very tough.
Only the CL1 A level can match them.... :celebrate:

[ChiefKiasu]

Donkey Kong:

Think most of us don't want to lower weightage becoz CL is easy to score! A* :lol: statistics shows more than 75% pupils scored A* in CL.

:celebrate:

If CL standard raised till only 10% score A*, think many pple will vote otherwise. :lol:

Actually, our A* is no fight with Taiwan/China pple. Some of our staff go China, chinese language one-piece one piece ..... very tough.
Only the CL1 A level can match them.... :celebrate:

On the contrary, there are lots of people including myself with kids that are struggling with CL in school. That is the main reason behind MOE's call for the MT weightage to be lowered, since kids that don't do well in Chinese may not get to go to the better Secondary schools.

My point is simply that if the objective is to get the best students into the best schools so that they have the best chance of succeeding in later in life, then reducing weightage of CL in admission criteria may not achieve this objective since the conditions necessary for success in future careers will likely require a mastery of CL.

[Tnsp]

ChiefKiasu:

My point is simply that if the objective is to get the best students into the best schools so that they have the best chance of succeeding in later in life, then reducing weightage of CL in admission criteria may not achieve this objective since the conditions necessary for success in future careers will likely require a mastery of CL.

Yes.

Reducing the weightage of CL will not achieve this objective of them succeeding in later life, because things are made easy for them. They will get away with the idea that when things are difficult, ask for the easy way out.

It is so sad that the Education Minister failed to see this point.

[3Boys]

CKS,

I respectfully disagree with your analogy. There has been a brain-washing that is perpetuated around the absolute necessity of learning Chinese to be in a competitive situation in China. Does it help? Certainly. Is it a deal-breaker? Not in my experience. Conversely, companies in China will be foolish to limit themselves to deals with folk who can only speak the lingo. In fact, it is my view that as China becomes more like the rest if the world, this will become a progressively less important issue. I.e. I do not necessarily need to learn Russian to do business in Russia, or Portuguese to do business in Brazil. How many CEOs can claim a mastery of all languages of the countries that their affiliates are in? Also, by saying that Chinese language is essential for business linkages, do we then imply that our Malay and Indian compadres are therefore doomed to economic disadvantage and have no entry point into China?

One needs to consider what are some of the universal traits that will enable someone to be economically active, at the basic level. There are many Spaniards, Italians, Finnish, French and Japanese people who speak nothing other than their native language. Yet, they are able to be economically active within their countries, sometimes working for MNCs originating from those countries. Clearly, language proficiency in Chinese, or even English for that matter, is not a major requirement to be successful. However, you would be out on a limb if you did not know math, or some basic science. And of course, you had to have proficiency in the native language.

What is the native language of Singapore? I suppose you could say Singlish, but arguably the official policy (and also in practice), the language of business and transaction is English.

Should there then be a primacy of English over MT? I fail to see how you can argue that it not be so. Likewise Math…

…which is really the crux of what MOE is trying to say.


But again, its highly politicised, isn’t it?

[corneyAmber]

3Boys, I too have to beg to differ with you here.


I have to share some truths with you from a capacity where I have direct experience.

Many US/Europe-based MNCs have invested heavily in China but fail to be profitable for many years, some as many as over 10 years, believe it or not. They merely survive to make ends meet by using the profits from other regions.
Can they pull the plug and go? No, they still believe that it is a place you cannot NOT be there despite the poor returns and because they are known as MNC. What is an MNC without presence in China? chuckle

Internal post-mortem studies pointed to the fact that not knowing the language and rules were indeed a hindrance to their level of penetration in the market. Language is the basic barrier, then there are other barriers to break in that place and with the power of language, it would have been easier. Hiring LOCALs certainly DID NOT resolve the issue, many times it compounded the issues. So more and more foreigners are embarking on the learning of the Chinese language from young, that is the real world.

[HyperKiasu]

minnie2004:

BlackAngel:

ha, i agree to one of the post, Set up a school called: I Hate Chinese secondary school. Those who select to go to this school no need to count chinese in PSLE. just need to use 3 subjects = 300 marks.


DSA Entry Condition: They must prove that they really hate the subject to the core and want to migrate overseas because of this subject. A medical visit to IMH is preferred. This group of losers (or you can call them bright sparks or elites) are given a new syllabus called CL H (H for hatred). They only need to know 3 phrases to pass CL H. 我恨华文， 我讨厌华文， 我不是华人。

:rotflmao:

And it's up to the future employers to decide whether they want to hire graduates from this school

don't worry, the following company will hire them:
Isolation Corp. (listed in desert)

[3Boys]

What really puzzles me is this. If you really had a passion and a gift for CL, of what relevance is the MT weighting of PSLE to you?


Will you set your standard of proficiency based upon the low passing standard that MOE sets? Obviously not. You will be chugging along merrily at HMT level and participating at clan events and enrichment etc. In 25 years, your DS/DD will be able to write into their CVs that they have mastery of CL and will be ahead of other candidates for certain posts. Congratulations! Now move on and give some space to the less well endowed, will you?

There are basically 3 thrusts of the pro-MT camp;

1) Preservation of a competitive advantage in the school academic system
2) Defence of the culture
3) Economic value

If you are in 3) refer to my post above

If you are in 2), then ask yourself, is this keeping a goodly weightage really the way to go? tamarind has some great suggestions about how to give space to parties who may wish to immerse themselves and those who choose not to.

If you are in 1), then it is a straight political fight, no need to talk about fairness or Math or Science or what.

I have a lot of sympathy for Grandma Chong. The type of vitriol was present back then in my day as a student as well, so pardon if I have a cynical view of the pro-MT agenda.

[BlackAngel]

3Boys, you may call me old fashioned. but since young, it just knocked into me (not by parents though) that if i am chinese i should know it. it is my roots. It is pretty shocking that some of us here just view our chinese language as a subject. Of cos i should not criticise people for that, but it is very funny that japs are good at japanese, korea good at koreans, chinese good at chinese. singaporean chinese are good at english, weak at chinese. i think we are victims of the language policy. we sacrifice our roots for our economic growth. that is why we had the situation and debate now. countries like taiwan/hk may seems weaker than us economically, but culturally they are much stronger. but economics is not hard to catch up, cultural part once it is lost , it is lost forever.

[3Boys]

ksi:

3Boys, I too have to beg to differ with you here.


I have to share some truths with you from a capacity where I have direct experience.

Many US/Europe-based MNCs have invested heavily in China but fail to be profitable for many years, some as many as over 10 years, believe it or not. They merely survive to make ends meet by using the profits from other regions.
Can they pull the plug and go? No, they still believe that it is a place you cannot NOT be there despite the poor returns and because they are known as MNC. What is an MNC without presence in China? *chuckle*

Internal post-mortem studies pointed to the fact that not knowing the language and rules were indeed a hindrance to their level of penetration in the market. Language is the basic barrier, then there are other barriers to break in that place and with the power of language, it would have been easier. Hiring LOCALs certainly DID NOT resolve the issue, many times it compounded the issues. So more and more foreigners are embarking on the learning of the Chinese language from young, that is the real world.

We have differing experiences then! Here is the false premise, some western executive embarks on a one year crash course in Chinese language and suddenly makes a big change in China strategy and profitability. Hubris followed by nemesis.

Conversely, how many our our local investors, big and small, with the presumption of knowing the language, strode confidently into the arena thinking they had a 'competitive advantage' and ended up with fingers burnt?

China is a tough market, period, whether or not you know the lingo. And no one has shown me any information that a MNC with a CEO who knows chinese has done better in that market than those who do not.

Business savvy, strategic thinking, leadership, ethical conduct, cultural sensitivity......fungible traits that will help you succeed in business, be it Brazil, Russia, India, France, Germany, Japan......or China.

[corneyAmber]

3Boys,

(1) is no longer an issue if they implement this in 2022, 12 years later, then everyone makes a fair choice how they want to develop their kids.
That is truly fair, in my opinion. No one CAN complain then.

(2) has been defended since the ‘No dialects’ days so how much can people defend if you see that it has successfully eliminated the learning of dialects for our children. In a way the dialect-specific culture has already been diluted. So this will eventually diminish…if emphasis on MT is drawn away…it certainly WILL from experience.

(3) is something driven by the world economy…see the above reply I have for you.

If the government can spend some money to sieve out children with learning disabilities for the Chinese language during the baby check-ups, then we can arrest the issue early in the cycle and take corrective measures. Aptitude for learning should be detected early if they are really trying to fix the aptitude problem, just like dyslexic condition can be detected(go for therapy), lack of mathematical acumen can also be detected(focus on arts subjects)…so perhaps we need a special school to nurture such children born without the ability to learn their mother tongue?