Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?
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Veyron\" post_id=\"2100961\" time=\"1678762986\" user_id=\"30663:
You know how MOE is, they like to do pilot schemes. If they did the research and studied the proposal, and response from the public is positive, I am sure they will start with maybe 2 to 4 schools first before expanding it to a bigger number of schools.
In terms of take-up rate, I think there are possible 2 scenarios and both will also lead to problems.
Scenario 1
Low take-up rate as most parents will prefer to PSLE path. And after 2 or 3 years, MOE decided to stop this TT pilot program because the school doesn't have enough students to support the program.
Scenario 2
As you suggest, throw in some not affiliated well-known primary schools for TT program. Take up rate overwhelm and shortage of vacancies make TT primary school enrolment become super high-stake for parents. P2A 1km ballot, P2B 1km ballot, P2C 1km ballot. Which means driving up property prices and benefiting the rich and disadvantaging the low-income.
I think all the troubles of turning the entire school system upside down may not achieve the desired outcome (ie, no PSLE stress and yet do well for O-level) and may even make the education system more stressful and confusing.
The current registration phases to popular schools is already super high stake. It does not mean that because of that, we don't consider the idea of TT. And do you think the registration for P1 will always stay the same forever? I am sure there will be changes to this first even before we talk about through train to secondary schools.
The fact is, they still go ahead with FSBB even though it is \"troublesomne\" for students to switch classes throughout the day, they still go ahead with IP schools even though it makes the education system more competitive, plus other like creating SAP schools, DSA and Independent schools. -
kaisuism\" post_id=\"2100967\" time=\"1678764494\" user_id=\"199574:
A pilot scheme will be easy if it doesn't require parents to commit their preschool children to 10 years education test program because if the outcome is unfavorable, ie poor O-level result after 10 years, or unhappy students or parents etc. MOE will likely be blamed and critics will say MOE could have done this or that better. (as if we know how this is going to turn out)
You know how MOE is, they like to do pilot schemes. If they did the research and studied the proposal, and response from the public is positive, I am sure they will start with maybe 2 to 4 schools first before expanding it to a bigger number of schools.
The current registration phases to popular schools is already super high stake. It does not mean that because of that, we don't consider the idea of TT. And do you think the registration for P1 will always stay the same forever? I am sure there will be changes to this first even before we talk about through train to secondary schools.
The fact is, they still go ahead with FSBB even though it is \"troublesomne\" for students to switch classes throughout the day, they still go ahead with IP schools even though it makes the education system more competitive, plus other like creating SAP schools, DSA and Independent schools.
P1 enrolment for some schools is indeed overwhelming however the motivation behind is still good education which ultimately leads to good secondary school posting. With PSLE route, everyone is still given a fair chance regardless of which primary schools, and students have 6 years to develop themselves before school selection. For TT program, it will be 2 in 1 combo and certainly, the stake and risk will be much higher. -
Singapore, as a small country, we need to understand what is competition. Shielding is not helping. Competition is real in the world!
As for the PSLE, it can be as stressful as we want it to be.
If we choose to compete at PSLE, then accept the stress.
If we know the education journey has many paths to arrive at Rome, then take our time to get there through the various alternatives offered to get there. Then take PSLE as a mock exam and lessen the stress on ourselves but look forward to the next milestone.
As parents, the most important is to understand our kids’ abilities and needs. Changing the menu frequently and not making sure the kids learn how to appreciate food is not going to change anything. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2100973\" time=\"1678765918\" user_id=\"30663:
Maybe I am a little harsh on MOE saying they are lazy. With FSBB still new, this TT will not happen so soon because it takes time to even think it is feasible, let alone implementing it. But at least, think about it first. Don't just dismiss it because of current condition.
A pilot scheme will be easy if it doesn't require parents to commit their preschool children to 10 years education test program because if the outcome is unfavorable, ie poor O-level result after 10 years, or unhappy students or parents etc. MOE will likely be blamed and critics will say MOE could have done this or that better. (as if we know how this is going to turn out)
P1 enrolment for some schools is indeed overwhelming however the motivation behind is still good education which ultimately leads to good secondary school posting. With PSLE route, everyone is still given a fair chance regardless of which primary schools, and students have 6 years to develop themselves before school selection. For TT program, it will be 2 in 1 combo and certainly, the stake and risk will be much higher. -
kaisuism\" post_id=\"2100978\" time=\"1678767450\" user_id=\"199574:
This TT idea has been floating around for a while and no one at MOE dares to say no as it will go against the spirit of making primary school less stressful.
Maybe I am a little harsh on MOE saying they are lazy. With FSBB still new, this TT will not happen so soon because it takes time to even think it is feasible, let alone implementing it. But at least, think about it first. Don't just dismiss it because of current condition.
MOE is under tremendous pressure to abolish PSLE, while at the same time confronted by decades of school selection data to suggest that abolishing PSLE will lead to other issues which may even be harder to address. To be fair, MOE didn't say no but raised concerns about the implementation. What worries me most is after going through all the effort of trying TT program, parents and students are still stressed and unhappy, and parents are blaming TT program when students don't do well or are overly stressed at the o-level.
Then what's next? kick the can down the road again to have thru-train JC. -
How about this. Drawing suggestions from discussions thus far. Remove PSLE and make all pri Sch TT to a cluster of schools nearby that pri Sch. Make it optional to take PSLE and pass certain hurdles if kids want to get into IP school otherwise progress to TT sec Sch and take O level at year 10. For those affiliated schools, continue to take in affiliated students and leave 20% for dsa. All students who don’t want take PSLE can take a shot at dsa to enter the IP schools or those affiliated Sch that they were not affiliated to. Like that everyone happy?
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Hmm… the answer to whether TT will work, according to MOE’s measures, probably lies in the statistics generated from all the DSA students.
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bbbay\" post_id=\"2100984\" time=\"1678771663\" user_id=\"175278:
Logically speaking …..why not? If time spent on drilling on exams can be replaced with enriched curriculum to learn about the world (ie sustainability, inter-dependency of ecosystems, astronomy, nature and science, geology etc) or to pursue their passion why not. Today, there are a sizeable number of athletes/performers who are so good but refuse to join the national squad bc they simply hv no time to balance both.
Hmm… the answer to whether TT will work, according to MOE’s measures, probably lies in the statistics generated from all the DSA students. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2100983\" time=\"1678770539\" user_id=\"2358:
By making PSLE optional for all students in every school, there will be no need to term them as thru-train, as all secondary schools in Singapore, except IPs schools, will take in students without PSLE as long as there are still vacancies left after S1 posting for PSLE students. The only challenge perhaps is to decide if the student should be put into express or NT etc? Perhaps a special temp class should be created for non-PSLE admission students to allow the school to decide which class the student should be posted to. Or using of P6 prelim result?
How about this. Drawing suggestions from discussions thus far. Remove PSLE and make all pri Sch TT to a cluster of schools nearby that pri Sch. Make it optional to take PSLE and pass certain hurdles if kids want to get into IP school otherwise progress to TT sec Sch and take O level at year 10. For those affiliated schools, continue to take in affiliated students and leave 20% for dsa. All students who don’t want take PSLE can take a shot at dsa to enter the IP schools or those affiliated Sch that they were not affiliated to. Like that everyone happy?
To make it fair for all students, those who opt out of PSLE at P5 should not be eligible for DSA selection as this goes against the purpose of having a less stressful education pathway for primary school students. And also have to be fair to students who have to juggle PSLE and DSA-related activities.
By offering PSLE as an option, I believe more sec schools will have vacancies after S1 posting and AL COP may also be lower as a result of fewer applicants vying under PSLE S1 posting. This means students who take PSLE will be less stressed as well.
And for MOE, there will be no need to make special arrangements to accommodate any unexpected swing or low in demands for \"thru-train\", no need for special purposed to build TT infrastructure, and more importantly to fulfilled their obligation to allow students the option of skipping PSLE.
So the decision to take or skip PSLE will be in the hands of parents, not MOE and parents will have to accept that opting for the non-PSLE route will limit their choice of secondary schools. Which I presume will not be a problem since the goal here is to offer a less stressful primary school education and students will not feel bad if they do not do well in PSLE. And when they are promoted to Sec school, they will join other students from PSLE S1 posting. So there is no need to worry about being isolated from the mainstream. -
Imp75\" post_id=\"2100985\" time=\"1678772459\" user_id=\"2358:
MOE could study the statistics on all DSA students’ performance in O/A levels exam, since their PSLE exam results have almost no bearing on their Sec school enrolment, just like in a TT program where students will skip PSLE and only take O level as first major exam. DSA student performance in O/A level exams may provide some close indication on how a TT program may turn out. Just an opinion of mine.
Logically speaking …..why not? If time spent on drilling on exams can be replaced with enriched curriculum to learn about the world (ie sustainability, inter-dependency of ecosystems, astronomy, nature and science, geology etc) or to pursue their passion why not. Today, there are a sizeable number of athletes/performers who are so good but refuse to join the national squad bc they simply hv no time to balance both.
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