Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?

[sushi88]

Avenue3\" post_id=\"2103622\" time=\"1680309562\" user_id=\"45412:

My perception. Hopefully with age it comes.

If someone says they can't handle stress at any age, the system should not bend for them.

I agree with you.
Some amount of stress is a necessary evil to push us forward in life.
If it is still unmanageable by a certain age, it may not be the system issue if the majority are coping fine.
Then we have to look at ways of handling the exceptions.

[00skyblue00]

If TT means to remove P6 level Proficiency assessment, then the topic is misleading. Removing PSLE is a separate matter, not to be confused with through train.


I am not supportive of not having any sorting mechanism at a major milestone like p6. Removing psle takes away opportunity for children in less fortunate families, the only way for these kids to work hard to change their lives. Many can be smart and of higher abilities but would otherwise be slip through the gap unnoticed.

[00skyblue00]

Many kids can accept the hard truth better than adults, parents.

During covid, my child and those ard her, were given HRW, one week before PSLE. All went to same bus stop after school. Many did very well for prelims.
Guess what the children said, we want to take PSLE together with our friends. We studied so hard, heard about it for so long. We don’t want to skip it. Fortunately, they cleared the HRW in time, took PSLE. Really commendable.
Not all scored as well as in prelim, some did worse in psle. But my child said, no regret, coz she survived and pulled through as a "grownup" now.

[pirate]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2103629\" time=\"1680314631\" user_id=\"100857:

I agree with you.
Some amount of stress is a necessary evil to push us forward in life.
If it is still unmanageable by a certain age, it may not be the system issue if the majority are coping fine.
Then we have to look at ways of handling the exceptions.

I see no evidence that teenagers are more stressed at 12 than when they are 16. Anybody can point me to the evidence?

If it is a matter of intuition, children at 12 are more likely to still be gong gong and go meh than at 16, simply because they are less mature. Or perhaps I should rephrase to at 12 they are more likely to not be stressed by things they would be stressed by at 16.

It may well be that kiasu parents are projecting their own stress onto their children, hence this idea that somehow PSLE is more stressful than O Levels.

In fact, the less stressed a kid is, the more stressed the parents become.

[sushi88]

pirate\" post_id=\"2103642\" time=\"1680321978\" user_id=\"66252:

I see no evidence that teenagers are more stressed at 12 than when they are 16. Anybody can point me to the evidence?

If it is a matter of intuition, children at 12 are more likely to still be gong gong and go meh than at 16, simply because they are less mature. Or perhaps I should rephrase to at 12 they are more likely to not be stressed by things they would be stressed by at 16.

It may well be that kiasu parents are projecting their own stress onto their children, hence this idea that somehow PSLE is more stressful than O Levels.

In fact, the less stressed a kid is, the more stressed the parents become.

I think you just answered your own question on the evidence.
If there is a perceived high-stake exam at 12yo and parents cannot be convinced that it is not a high-stake exam, then the stress exerted on a 12yo will continue and you cannot detach kids from their parents, can you?

[Avenue3]

pirate\" post_id=\"2103642\" time=\"1680321978\" user_id=\"66252:

I see no evidence that teenagers are more stressed at 12 than when they are 16. Anybody can point me to the evidence?

If it is a matter of intuition, children at 12 are more likely to still be gong gong and go meh than at 16, simply because they are less mature. Or perhaps I should rephrase to at 12 they are more likely to not be stressed by things they would be stressed by at 16.

It may well be that kiasu parents are projecting their own stress onto their children, hence this idea that somehow PSLE is more stressful than O Levels.

In fact, the less stressed a kid is, the more stressed the parents become.

I kind of agree with you. My parents simply told me study or get lost....we are not going to support you after certain age. It may be that parents are rubbing their aspirations on kids.

But now a days parents are probably involving tooo much... helicopters

[pirate]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2103645\" time=\"1680324374\" user_id=\"100857:

I think you just answered your own question on the evidence.
If there is a perceived high-stake exam at 12yo and parents cannot be convinced that it is not a high-stake exam, then the stress exerted on a 12yo will continue and you cannot detach kids from their parents, can you?

Ban parents.

[00skyblue00]

Hence, parenting education for parents?

[sushi88]

00skyblue00\" post_id=\"2103635\" time=\"1680318165\" user_id=\"143605:

If TT means to remove P6 level Proficiency assessment, then the topic is misleading. Removing PSLE is a separate matter, not to be confused with through train.

I am not supportive of not having any sorting mechanism at a major milestone like p6. Removing psle takes away opportunity for children in less fortunate families, the only way for these kids to work hard to change their lives. Many can be smart and of higher abilities but would otherwise be slip through the gap unnoticed.

In the proposed TT in the parliamentary debates, it is indeed about scrapping PSLE to give kids thru train to secondary. However, that is a big jump from the current system. So that form of TT is not going to happen for a long while.

I have been pointing out the current affiliation is another form of TT whereby PSLE stays but kids can still TT to a designated sec school if they wish to, i.e not wanting to have a chance at IP track, thereby calling it pseudo TT. This PSLE taken therefore is no longer the high-stake exam because it has no impact on the school posting, only the subjects banding in S1. The group you mentioned with high ability can try for the IP track if that path can develop their potential better.

Also, with this pseudo TT, kids may be able to use P6 to learn some syllabus in S1 like \"subject-trial/tasting\" while preparing for the PSLE. PSLE covers core skills of 4 subjects but the \"subject trial\" in P6 can cover subjects not covered in P6 like History, Geo, Lit? It may in turn enhance their love for English and Science and do better in PSLE? I have always felt that learning History and Geography for 2 years in secondary was kinda short during our time.

The interesting point to establish here is:
1. For the 10% vacancies of IP, how many % of kids are seriously aiming for it by working ferociously on their PSLE?
My guess is 30-40% of the cohort
2. For the remaining 60-70% who are not so competitive , yet have to join the race to be posted to a secondary school of choice just to avoid the perceived bottom stack of schools, is it worth the hardship?
3. Are we dragging the 60-70% kids into this rat race or is it a willing race? Why do we make kids race for a secondary school that is supposedly the same across all the schools as all schools are good schools to MOE?
4. The race is only necessary for getting into IP track because it is only 10%, unless we are saying 80% of the kids are racing to get into the 10% vacancies? Then welcome to the rat race....it is an inevitable race.

[pirate]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2103657\" time=\"1680326461\" user_id=\"100857:

2. For the remaining 60-70% who are not so competitive , yet have to join the race to be posted to a secondary school of choice just to avoid the perceived bottom stack of schools, is it worth the hardship?

Ok. Let's start a pilot scheme with TT to the perceived bottom stack of schools.