Is Algebra allowed for PSLE Math?

[sushi88]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2104035\" time=\"1680501713\" user_id=\"201257:

Ironically, the HOD used the same Channel New Asia article to justify her stand to the parents.

\"Any solution used in PSLE maths papers, including algebra, will be given full credit if concepts applied correctly: SEAB\"

The HOD said that is why no method marks will be credited in the PSLE if the student uses Algebra and the final answer is wrong. Because if the final answer is wrong, that means that the Algebra is not applied correctly. The HOD's understanding of 'FULL CREDIT' is in the context of a 'all or nothing' mindset.

In other words, the student has only 2 possible outcomes if they use Algebra in the PSLE, either get FULL CREDIT for a correct solution or ZERO CREDIT for a wrong solution. There is no middle ground.

Never got a reply when I pointed out that method marks are still credited by the markers when Algebra is being used to solve math questions in Secondary schools.

Do you have an example of a question+solution done before using algebra and was not given any marks for method that you can share it here? If it is a theoretical question that you have discussed with the teacher and the HOD, then I can see where the communication problem is.

[sushi88]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2104033\" time=\"1680501164\" user_id=\"201257:

Wouldn't that lead to accusations of double standards being levied at SEAB and Ministry of Education?

One set of (stricter) rules for children using Algebra in the PSLE Math. No compassion and allowance for carelessness. The student either get FULL marks if you get the question completely right, or ZERO marks if you make a teeny tiny calculation error midway through and get the final answer wrong.

Another set of (more lenient) rules for children using MOE's officially sanctioned 'Models' or 'Heuristics'. Even if the final answer is wrong, the student gets some method marks credited.

I don't see why method marks can be given when Algebra is being used to solve math questions in Secondary schools, but this is not being applied at the Primary level.

The question is just a simple logic question but the way you have written sounds different.

[fionachia0034]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2104037\" time=\"1680502182\" user_id=\"100857:

Do you have an example of a question+solution done before using algebra and was not given any marks for method that you can share it here? If it is a theoretical question that you have discussed with the teacher and the HOD, then I can see where the communication problem is.

I wish this were a theoretical question bandied about as a philosophical exercise.

This is actually affecting my son's and some of his classmates' learning.

I will refrain from sharing too many details as we are considering bringing this to the attention of MOE.

[ChiefKiasu]

I can only solve problems with algebra :oops:

If I'm born into today's school system, I will :faint:

[sushi88]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2104085\" time=\"1680511102\" user_id=\"201257:

I wish this were a theoretical question bandied about as a philosophical exercise.

This is actually affecting my son's and some of his classmates' learning.

I will refrain from sharing too many details as we are considering bringing this to the attention of MOE.

Fair enough. Wish you all the best in your query and let us know the reply and rationale.

Meanwhile, there is really no need to fret over this point too much. Whichever method is used, the checking method is the most important to ensure that the answer is correct. If the checked answer is correct, it is highly unlikely the algebra method applied can be conceptually wrong unless there are coincidences of answers which would be very rare.

Just want to point out that the 2 methods are not that much different, except one has one variable and the other has two or more variables. Both are essentially using algebra.

[sushi88]

ChiefKiasu\" post_id=\"2104086\" time=\"1680513120\" user_id=\"3:

I can only solve problems with algebra :oops:
If I'm born into today's school system, I will :faint:

Chief, If you are born into today's school system, you will just ace it, I am quite sure of that.

[lassie girl]

The ministry’s published statement has said as much - if u can reach the final destination (ie correct answer), they won’t question how u got there (eg whether u crawled or u walked the journey) and u will get your full marks as having accomplished the “task”. What if u force them for the “how”, because u used a different method learned elsewhere but didn’t reach the final destination? Can u request for them to award marks for the distance u covered by walking or maybe running? :?


If the answer is yes, then the floodgates will be opened. We will soon see eager parents with time and resources teaching or sending their children to tuition centers offering algebra classes (not saying which method is better or easier). So what then should the schools do? Do they now teach algebra as well? If they don’t, the ones with lesser resources will be disadvantaged… I always wonder if they fast forward and teach algebra in primary school, will the future cohorts end up with having to do A math in S1 or S2? Why crawl when u can run to your destination? :evil: are we ready for this “fast-track”? :heresmyfish:

Is the intention then to force them to say no? :siam:

To ensure a fair test, the “skill” (or method) that is being taught is the one they are testing - to find out if a group of students are responding well to the education provided. That’s why marks are given for the “skill” they have learned, no matter how far they have gone using the methods taught (in their workings). But I thought they are also flexible enough to award full marks to those who can master algebra well (ie must be correct final answer).

Good luck for your query.

[phtthp]

What action then, can u possibly take ?



Proposal / suggestion
===================

to all parents with kids sitting for Psle this year 2023, next year 2024 or in subsequent, future years :-
============================


1) dig out all those past year PSLE Maths qns that you think can be solved, for the past decade (10 years), using Algebra method.

You provide the step by step solution(s) clearly,

using either one unknown x or 2 unknown (x and y), depending on how the qn asked.

Don’t just dig out and practise merely one qn only.
But,
dig out as many past year qns as possible, that can be solved, using this Algebra method.

Then ,
collate ALL these qns solved using the Algebra method at one shot and email to 2 different group of people, for help.


1) email to your own primary school.

Email and show to your kid’s primary school Maths HOD, at the same time also cc your kid’s class Maths Teacher

+

2) email also to
that specific SEAB Officer in charge, or the Head of Invigilation overall in charge of marking several thousands of P6 students’ PSLE Maths answer scripts.

Ask them this question :-

If my P6 son or daughter were to use Algebra method (x or y), to solve this qn during this coming year end 2023 PSLE Maths,
can u please
help to mark his answer, and let us (parents) know how many marks will he get ?

Be concise, be specific in your question. And wait for these 2 group of people, to reply you.

Once u get their answers, u may come to this forum, share your findings or post your findings into "Straits Times", so that other p6 parents and children, can also benefit from your sharing / finding.

Also,
do remember to
paste the reply obtained, from SEAB + your primary school’s Maths HOD (if u wish to).

We are more concerned, with the reply from SEAB, because after all, they are the markers, in our kids’ PSLE answer scripts. As PSLE AL score, is the ultimate decision marker, to decide which Secondary school your P6 child gets posted into, out of his list of 6 choices Secondary schools submitted, during the S1 posting exercise.

[phtthp]

fionachia0034\" post_id=\"2104085\" time=\"1680511102\" user_id=\"201257:

I wish this were a theoretical question bandied about as a philosophical exercise.

This is actually affecting my son's and some of his classmates' learning.

I will refrain from sharing too many details as we are considering bringing this to the attention of MOE.

Fiona Chia,

You may take the proactive step, as been suggested. And see how SEAB mark those past years' PSLE qns, for those students who had solved using the Algebra method.

[sushi88]

phtthp\" post_id=\"2104163\" time=\"1680582507\" user_id=\"35251:

Proposal / suggestion
===================

to all parents with kids sitting for Psle this year 2023, next year 2024 or in subsequent, future years :-
============================


1) dig out all those past year PSLE Maths qns that you think can be solved, using Algebra method.

You provide the step by step solution(s) clearly,

using either one unknown x or 2 unknown (x and y), depending on how the qn asked.

Don't just dig out and practise merely one qn only.
But,
dig out as many past year qns as possible, that can be solved, using this Algebra method.

Then ,
collate ALL these qns solved using the Algebra method at one shot and email to 2 different group of people, for help.


1) email to your own primary school.

Email and show to your kid's primary school Maths HOD, at the same time also cc your kid's class Maths Teacher

+

2) email also to
that specific SEAB Officer in charge, or the Head of Invigilation overall in marking thousands of P6 students' PSLE scripts.

Ask them this qn :-

If my P6 son or daughter were to use Algebra method (x or y), to solve this qn coming this year 2023 PSLE Maths, can u please help to mark his answer, and let us (parents) know how many marks will he get ?

Be concise, be specific in your question. And wait for these 2 group of people, to reply you.

Once u get the answers, u may come to this forum, share your findings or post your findings, into Straits Times, so that other p6 parents and children, can also benefit from your sharing / finding.

Don't ask parents to go on a wild goose chase when they do not understand the issue at hand in detail. Their kids may not have encountered the same issue and the samples they produce could return with the same answer from both parties and that may leave a ?? in their heads why you ask them to do something like that and waste everyone's time to simulate something their kids do not even know how to and confuse them? And the fact that you can suggest them to do something like that means you are not understanding the issue parent fionachia0034 has described. :slapshead:

Let parent fionachia0034 make her query because she has a specific situation encountered with real experiences and examples of solutions together with some of the parents in the same school. It is sufficient for them to make a case of query and I believe in MOE/SEAB to address this clearly with a rationale as PSLE is a major national exam.

Also, I re-read Ms Ho Peng's reply from MOE:
\"Other than the model drawing approach, pupils are also taught different problem solving methods. They are encouraged to try different approaches and have the flexibility to choose the method that works best for them in solving the problems. They are also encouraged to present their solutions clearly so that these can be understood.\"