Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?

[sushi88]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2104036\" time=\"1680502081\" user_id=\"30663:

If you haven't noticed, the underlying interest or concern about PSLE, TT or affiliation is still centered around secondary school posting, about parent desire to send their kids into good sec schools without PSLE, or PSLE remains the most relevant exam to facilitate secondary school posting, be it IP or mainstream.

Like it or not PSLE = academic studies, so I think there is no point in going OT to discuss other matters since most agree that PSLE is here to stay, or debating if fish can climb trees.

pirate is not OT la...he is just creative and has a good sense of humour.
He is actually on point than most.

Academic studies is the de facto path for all kids as at least primary school is compulsory education but it is not the be all and end all as pirate has stated.

[sushi88]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2104080\" time=\"1680504947\" user_id=\"30663:

\"Better\" is subjective, different families and students find fulfillment, motivation, and purpose in different things.
So who are we to say who is right or who is wrong or conjecture about how other students study to get good grades or how should we live?

The only thing I know is the common here is the desire in parents to send their kids to good schools.

Better here is for those kids who maybe suffering in the system through no fault of theirs but drag along in the system just because 30-40% of the kids want to aim high.

We can always find a way to let the 30-40% soar and let the other remaining % decide if they want to join in the rat race at 12yo or later. The affiliation kids are given this choice, they join the race later. It's something MOE can think about.

[zac's mum]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2104081\" time=\"1680507210\" user_id=\"30663:

Interestingly, not too long after I posted this link, the page is no longer available.
Not sure if this is a technical glitch?

I do not know. But from what I recall, that page merely published a very high percentage of their O level students qualifying for any JC.

That is not a difficult bar to meet at all.

What would be more interesting is:
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACJC?
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACSI Y5-Y6?

But this figure is not revealed.

[Veyron]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2104094\" time=\"1680516773\" user_id=\"100857:

Better here is for those kids who maybe suffering in the system through no fault of theirs but drag along in the system just because 30-40% of the kids want to aim high.

We can always find a way to let the 30-40% soar and let the other remaining % decide if they want to join in the rat race at 12yo or later. The affiliation kids are given this choice, they join the race later. It's something MOE can think about.

Actually, our education system already permits that because students in Singapore, no matter how bad the PSLE result, will still be able to continue their studies and no one will ever be left behind.

So parents and students do have a choice to take PSLE lightly and cruise into secondary education. The only thing which bothers parents is secondary school posting because they know that if PSLE result is not good, they can't get into good schools.

So the problem here is not so much about the education system or MOE, it has got to do with parents' unrealistic expectations and wants.

Affiliation kids do have competition and stress too. In the case of ACS, they are all racing to get into ACS(I) AL13 COP, and IB programs AL7 COP, if they could. If you don't believe just take a look at the number of ACS, SJI boys at United Square or Bukit Timah enrichment schools.

I think its the parents who need thinking not MOE.

[Veyron]

zac's mum\" post_id=\"2104096\" time=\"1680517219\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2104096 time=1680517219 user_id=53606]
I do not know. But from what I recall, that page merely published a very high percentage of their O level students qualifying for any JC.

That is not a difficult bar to meet at all.

What would be more interesting is:
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACJC?
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACSI Y5-Y6?

But this figure is not revealed.[/quote]

From what I can find on google. if COP for ACSI IB is 5, I suppose 41 of them may have gotten in with 5 A1s.
Which is around 17% of the cohort. This is not easy as they have to switch from O-level to IB program with only 2 years runway before IB Diploma.
[quote]ACS(I) 2019 'O' Level Results
https://www.acsindep.moe.edu.sg › lp_announcement

ACS (Independent) students who sat for the 2019 GCE “O” Level Examinations received their results today in school. The cohort of 236 students achieved an average L1B5 score of 12.65 and improved the mean subject grade (MSG) to 2.53. 140 students (59.3%) have obtained 5 and more Distinctions (A1 and A2s) Among them, 41 (17.4%) achieved 5 or more A1s, and 102 students (43.2%) [/quote]

[Veyron]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2104093\" time=\"1680516027\" user_id=\"100857:

pirate is not OT la...he is just creative and has a good sense of humour.
He is actually on point than most.

Academic studies is the de facto path for all kids as at least primary school is compulsory education but it is not the be all and end all as pirate has stated.

No one says education is all that matters, we are merely discussing the merit and challenges of TT schools. Let's not take things too far into the future.

[sushi88]

Veyron\" post_id=\"2104113\" time=\"1680518178\" user_id=\"30663:

Actually, our education system already permits that because students in Singapore, no matter how bad the PSLE result, will still be able to continue their studies and no one will ever be left behind.

So parents and students do have a choice to take PSLE lightly and cruise into secondary education. The only thing which bothers parents is secondary school posting because they know that if PSLE result is not good, they can't get into good schools.

So the problem here is not so much about the education system or MOE, it has got to do with parents' unrealistic expectations and wants.

Affiliation kids do have competition and stress too. In the case of ACS, they are all racing to get into ACS(I) AL13 COP, and IB programs AL7 COP, if they could. If you don't believe just take a look at the number of ACS, SJI boys at United Square or Bukit Timah enrichment schools.

I think its the parents who need thinking not MOE.

I would think you read every post more intently than others since you make this thread.
Parents are only one dimension, there are other reasons, obviously you have overlooked the post it was stated. And even if parents are the reason, there are varying situations how they contribute, not just unrealistic expectations and wants.

Why would I not believe you about how severe or competitive the tuition situation is for those who want to race in the affiliated group? Of course I believe. Also, where is the real stress for this group? Can't get into IP/IB can still get into the affiliated 'O' track. You are the one not believing :lol: there could be a group of kids who do not want to race but are being dragged into this race when they are not ready and not willing. I know some of these kids, just not sure how many nationally.

[Veyron]

sushi88\" post_id=\"2104138\" time=\"1680524999\" user_id=\"100857:

I would think you read every post more intently than others since you make this thread.
Parents are only one dimension, there are other reasons, obviously you have overlooked the post it was stated. And even if parents are the reason, there are varying situations how they contribute, not just unrealistic expectations and wants.

Why would I not believe you about how severe or competitive the tuition situation is for those who want to race in the affiliated group? Of course I believe. Also, where is the real stress for this group? Can't get into IP/IB can still get into the affiliated 'O' track. You are the one not believing :lol: there could be a group of kids who do not want to race but are being dragged into this race when they are not ready and not willing. I know some of these kids, just not sure how many nationally.

If your hypothesis on TT and affiliation helping students who wish to join the \"rat race\" later to be better equipped for exams (\"race\") at S4 is true, then I would expect students' academic standards or outcomes at ACS and ACS(I) to converge at S4 and produce similarly good O-Level results. Unfortunately, that is far from the truth and all ACS parents know that, and that is why ACS parents also need to stress over PSLE. Based on my earlier estimate, I would say around 50% of ACS primary students end up in ACS(I) Express and IB programs with PSLE scores ranging from AL4 to AL13.

172/510 = 34% (AL7-AL13) - Express
82/510 = 16% AL4-AL7 - IP

What does this show? 50% of ACS students are not happy because they got dragged into the race at ACS(I)?
And if I may ask, so what happens if the same group of students still doesn't wish to join the \"race\" at O-Level?

In a race, there is only 1 winner, and that is not the case for education. So please don't stress yourself up by calling it a race.

[Veyron]

Somehow I find our discussion about TT or skipping PSLE is very similar to a classic Catch-22 situation


1) At the moment, parents are stressed because of PSLE high stake exam

2) TT without PSLE, parents are stressed because P1 enrollment will be high stake, no exit option for secondary schools posting, and worry about no checkpoint for students before hitting O-Level

3) Optional opt-out of PSLE, parents stressed because secondary school options will be limited, worrying about making the wrong decision and possibly lowering AL COP standard benefiting PSLE students

So back to the question, Can TT school work in Singapore?

Yes, but no thanks.

[zac's mum]

There are ways to make it work. Unfortunately the proactive suggestions which have been put forth by several parties (not just on this forum) have simply been shot down by naysayers and parties who have a vested interest in maintaining status quo.