Can through-train school work in kiasu Singapore?
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sushi88\" post_id=\"2104094\" time=\"1680516773\" user_id=\"100857:
Actually, our education system already permits that because students in Singapore, no matter how bad the PSLE result, will still be able to continue their studies and no one will ever be left behind.
Better here is for those kids who maybe suffering in the system through no fault of theirs but drag along in the system just because 30-40% of the kids want to aim high.
We can always find a way to let the 30-40% soar and let the other remaining % decide if they want to join in the rat race at 12yo or later. The affiliation kids are given this choice, they join the race later. It's something MOE can think about.
So parents and students do have a choice to take PSLE lightly and cruise into secondary education. The only thing which bothers parents is secondary school posting because they know that if PSLE result is not good, they can't get into good schools.
So the problem here is not so much about the education system or MOE, it has got to do with parents' unrealistic expectations and wants.
Affiliation kids do have competition and stress too. In the case of ACS, they are all racing to get into ACS(I) AL13 COP, and IB programs AL7 COP, if they could. If you don't believe just take a look at the number of ACS, SJI boys at United Square or Bukit Timah enrichment schools.
I think its the parents who need thinking not MOE. -
zac's mum\" post_id=\"2104096\" time=\"1680517219\" user_id=\"53606:[quote=\"zac's mum\" post_id=2104096 time=1680517219 user_id=53606]
From what I can find on google. if COP for ACSI IB is 5, I suppose 41 of them may have gotten in with 5 A1s.
I do not know. But from what I recall, that page merely published a very high percentage of their O level students qualifying for any JC.
That is not a difficult bar to meet at all.
What would be more interesting is:
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACJC?
- what % of their O level students qualified for ACSI Y5-Y6?
But this figure is not revealed.[/quote]
Which is around 17% of the cohort. This is not easy as they have to switch from O-level to IB program with only 2 years runway before IB Diploma.
[quote]ACS(I) 2019 'O' Level Results
https://www.acsindep.moe.edu.sg › lp_announcement
ACS (Independent) students who sat for the 2019 GCE “O” Level Examinations received their results today in school. The cohort of 236 students achieved an average L1B5 score of 12.65 and improved the mean subject grade (MSG) to 2.53. 140 students (59.3%) have obtained 5 and more Distinctions (A1 and A2s) Among them, 41 (17.4%) achieved 5 or more A1s, and 102 students (43.2%) [/quote] -
sushi88\" post_id=\"2104093\" time=\"1680516027\" user_id=\"100857:
No one says education is all that matters, we are merely discussing the merit and challenges of TT schools. Let's not take things too far into the future.
pirate is not OT la...he is just creative and has a good sense of humour.
He is actually on point than most.
Academic studies is the de facto path for all kids as at least primary school is compulsory education but it is not the be all and end all as pirate has stated. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2104113\" time=\"1680518178\" user_id=\"30663:
Actually, our education system already permits that because students in Singapore, no matter how bad the PSLE result, will still be able to continue their studies and no one will ever be left behind.
So parents and students do have a choice to take PSLE lightly and cruise into secondary education. The only thing which bothers parents is secondary school posting because they know that if PSLE result is not good, they can't get into good schools.
So the problem here is not so much about the education system or MOE, it has got to do with parents' unrealistic expectations and wants.
Affiliation kids do have competition and stress too. In the case of ACS, they are all racing to get into ACS(I) AL13 COP, and IB programs AL7 COP, if they could. If you don't believe just take a look at the number of ACS, SJI boys at United Square or Bukit Timah enrichment schools.
I think its the parents who need thinking not MOE.
I would think you read every post more intently than others since you make this thread.
Parents are only one dimension, there are other reasons, obviously you have overlooked the post it was stated. And even if parents are the reason, there are varying situations how they contribute, not just unrealistic expectations and wants.
Why would I not believe you about how severe or competitive the tuition situation is for those who want to race in the affiliated group? Of course I believe. Also, where is the real stress for this group? Can't get into IP/IB can still get into the affiliated 'O' track. You are the one not believing :lol: there could be a group of kids who do not want to race but are being dragged into this race when they are not ready and not willing. I know some of these kids, just not sure how many nationally.
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sushi88\" post_id=\"2104138\" time=\"1680524999\" user_id=\"100857:
If your hypothesis on TT and affiliation helping students who wish to join the \"rat race\" later to be better equipped for exams (\"race\") at S4 is true, then I would expect students' academic standards or outcomes at ACS and ACS(I) to converge at S4 and produce similarly good O-Level results. Unfortunately, that is far from the truth and all ACS parents know that, and that is why ACS parents also need to stress over PSLE. Based on my earlier estimate, I would say around 50% of ACS primary students end up in ACS(I) Express and IB programs with PSLE scores ranging from AL4 to AL13. I would think you read every post more intently than others since you make this thread.
Parents are only one dimension, there are other reasons, obviously you have overlooked the post it was stated. And even if parents are the reason, there are varying situations how they contribute, not just unrealistic expectations and wants.
Why would I not believe you about how severe or competitive the tuition situation is for those who want to race in the affiliated group? Of course I believe. Also, where is the real stress for this group? Can't get into IP/IB can still get into the affiliated 'O' track. You are the one not believing :lol: there could be a group of kids who do not want to race but are being dragged into this race when they are not ready and not willing. I know some of these kids, just not sure how many nationally.
172/510 = 34% (AL7-AL13) - Express
82/510 = 16% AL4-AL7 - IP
What does this show? 50% of ACS students are not happy because they got dragged into the race at ACS(I)?
And if I may ask, so what happens if the same group of students still doesn't wish to join the \"race\" at O-Level?
In a race, there is only 1 winner, and that is not the case for education. So please don't stress yourself up by calling it a race. -
Somehow I find our discussion about TT or skipping PSLE is very similar to a classic Catch-22 situation
1) At the moment, parents are stressed because of PSLE high stake exam
2) TT without PSLE, parents are stressed because P1 enrollment will be high stake, no exit option for secondary schools posting, and worry about no checkpoint for students before hitting O-Level
3) Optional opt-out of PSLE, parents stressed because secondary school options will be limited, worrying about making the wrong decision and possibly lowering AL COP standard benefiting PSLE students
So back to the question, Can TT school work in Singapore?
Yes, but no thanks. -
There are ways to make it work. Unfortunately the proactive suggestions which have been put forth by several parties (not just on this forum) have simply been shot down by naysayers and parties who have a vested interest in maintaining status quo.
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Veyron\" post_id=\"2104172\" time=\"1680588303\" user_id=\"30663:
Veyron,
Somehow I find our discussion about TT or skipping PSLE is very similar to a classic Catch-22 situation
1) At the moment, parents are stressed because of PSLE high stake exam
2) TT without PSLE, parents are stressed because P1 enrollment will be high stake, no exit option for secondary schools posting, and worry about no checkpoint for students before hitting O-Level
3) Optional opt-out of PSLE, parents stressed because secondary school options will be limited, worrying about making the wrong decision and possibly lowering AL COP standard benefiting PSLE students
So back to the question, Can TT school work in Singapore?
Yes, but no thanks.
Can ask u a qn ?
In the first case, dont understand why u bother to start this kind of thread ? I am sure there are other types of topic(s) under the sun, more worthwhile. In life, many things demand your attention & time.
Veyron,
can see that u are a very intelligent, hardworking, diligent & meticulous person. From the way u answered, not just this thread, but from other thread as well, can tell your character. Ignore this thread. Forget that u are this thread starter.
Spend your precious, valuable time, on worthy causes.
Just ask yourself this basic, fundamental question.
You look around, u know, inside that white party ruling government, so many of them hail from where ?
Hail from
RI, ACSI or ACS boys.
Even PM LHL himself, also from an IP-JC.
Do u think white ruling party will ever throw away PSLE ?
Of course not.
If throw away PSLE, then whose precious sons of these high powered MPs can get into
( RI / ACSI / Hwa Chong / National JC ... etc ) ?
Just answering this qn alone, u will know the fate of PSLE.
You think, the parents who are MPs inside this white party, are simply contented with sending their precious sons, to attend simple, ordinary \"TT\" schools, without \"putting up an intense, intellectual fight\", at PSLE, 12 years old ? The answer, is obvious.
If indeed one day, \"TT\" schools were to come true, then those who choose to opt out of PSLE,
will have to wait patiently lor
until
ALL students who had taken PSLE have gotten a slot into a Secondary school first, before can come their turn next, for processing. Priority, naturally will be given to those who had sat for PSLE.
Any other left behind, remaining, residual places, inside these TT schools, because they had never sit for PSLE before, will have to take Internal admission tests,
in the event
demand exceed Total number of vacancies available, in each of the TT school. Because
amongst TT schools, some are still better than others.
Unless ...
we are talking about those very un-popular, un-desirable TT neighbourhood schools, where Secondary school students' enrolment Is so low, so poor !
No P6 student want to go there to study. You hear the name of this TT school, students start to \"siam\", run far away. Until MOE no choice, have to step in to intervene, and start merging these un-popular TT schools. Then Yes, plenty of vacancies available, inside there. Don't bother to conduct any admission test, at all. Everyone is most welcome to join, these unwanted TT schools. -
phtthp\" post_id=\"2104213\" time=\"1680607240\" user_id=\"35251:
To answer your question, we may need to look back into the history of Malaya.
Veyron,
Can ask u a qn ?
In the first case, dont understand why u bother to start this kind of thread ? I am sure there are other types of topic(s) under the sun, more worthwhile. Spend your precious time, on more worthy causes.
Just ask yourself this basic, fundamental question.
You look around, u know, inside that white party government, so many of them hail from where ?
Hail from
RI, ACSI or ACS boys.
Even PM LHL himself, also from an IP-JC.
Do u think white party will ever throw away PSLE ?
Of course not.
If throw away PSLE, then whose precious sons can get into
( RI / ACSI / Hwa Chong / National JC ... etc ) ?
Just answering this qn alone, u will know the fate of PSLE.
You think, the parents who are MPs inside this white party, are readily (easily) contented with sending their precious sons, to attend simple, ordinary \"TT\" schools, without \"putting up an intense, intellectual fight\", at PSLE, 12 years old ? Those who opt to sit for PSLE, will get into the better renown Secondary schools, first.
If indeed one day, \"TT\" schools were to come true, then those who choose to opt out of PSLE,
will have to wait patiently
until
ALL those who had taken PSLE have gotten a slot into a Secondary school first, before can come their turn next, for processing. Of course, those who had sat for PSLE, will have priority, to pick their schools, first.
Any other remaining, residual places left behind, inside these TT schools, because they had never sit for PSLE before, will have to take Internal admission tests, in the event demand exceed Total number of vacancies available, in each of the TT school
According to records, 2 of the oldest school in Malaya is the Anglo-Chinese College in Malacca founded in 1820 by Robert Morrison (London Missionary Society) and Raffles Institute, founded in 1823 by Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles as a Boys only school. In subsequent years in the 1800s - 1900s, many mission and Chinese schools were established in Singapore as well. This is to say, long before we have Singapore, many of these \"IP\" schools were already well established. According to NLB record, PSLE was first introduced to Singapore during the British Colonial era in the early 1960s, which was modeled after UK Eleven+ standard exams. PSLE is actually not a Singapore system, simply a different name for the British system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleven-plus
Why do so many \"White Party\" member come from IP schools?
Founding members of Singapore such as Lee Kuan Yew Goh Keng Swee S. Rajaratnam Toh Chin Chye Hon Sui Sen Lim Kim San E.W. Barker Othman Wok etc all have one thing in common. They are all Rafflesian who graduated from RI or Raffles College. It is almost like modern Singapore is created by RI school projects started by Lee Kuan Yew Goh Keng Swee Toh Chin Chye. And in the eyes of the public, these people have already set the gold standards for politicians.
On the opposite side of the aisle, we can also find politicians like Jamus Lim Hazel Poa, Leong Mum Wai, David Marshall, Chiam See Tong, Chee Soon Juan, Sylvia Lim, Gerald Giam, Daniel Goh, Dennis Tan, Louis Chua, Leon Perera, Paul Tambyah etc, who are all from the \"IP\" schools.
I think the interest and merit of keeping PSLE is not to favor politicians or rich kids but to ensure our education system continues to produce quality output and does not become segmented and divided where rich and poor will go on different pathways. Human capital is one of Singapore's most important natural resources.
In UK most students will go through government-funded education, where students will be posted to the closest school from home where they will take SATS at age 7 and 11, not for sec school posting but serve as checkpoints, And the students will take their first exam at GCSEs (o-levels). This is almost like the TT school, but not necessarily in the same school compound, which means property prices around popular secondary schools will become expensive, and this will inevitably favor the rich. Why this could work in UK is because they are less Kiasu. Just like why circle traffic junction can function in UK but not in Singapore.
Alternatively, students may also choose to go for better equipped and higher level education grammar schools for secondary education, by taking an entrance exam in year 6. If they do well, then they can choose their preferred school. This is similar to PSLE (but not at the national level) applying for popular secondary schools. e.g. ACS (I), SJI, MGS. which mean standard of entrance exam will varies from school to school as well.
And there is also the option of private schools like King's College School, where one will find the best education in the country, (maybe similar to our IP schools), but out of reach to most UK citizens due to cost.
If MOE follows the UK system, I think 20% of Singapore students will be in private schools (Perhaps with many PR and foreigners), 80% will be stressing about the entrance exam to get into Grammar school, and eventually, 50% will be feeling they have been \"left\" behind.
As we can see from the UK system, there is no such thing as a level playing field or \"free lunch\". Those with more resources or those who choose to work harder for exams will get into better schools at an early age. At least here in Singapore, all our children are given an equal chance to try for \"King's Colledge School\" (aka IP schools) of Singapore without the need for rich parents or royal lineage and connections. -
Veyron\" post_id=\"2104244\" time=\"1680667731\" user_id=\"30663:
I think when you started this thread you have already decided that the answer is \"no\". Then you went one big round and came back to say \"no\".
As we can see from the UK system, there is no such thing as a level playing field or \"free lunch\". Those with more resources or those who choose to work harder for exams will get into better schools at an early age. At least here in Singapore, all our children are given an equal chance to try for \"King's Colledge School\" (aka IP schools) of Singapore without the need for rich parents or royal lineage and connections.
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