All About Fairness of PV

[janet88]

notabox:

Recently moved within 1 km of PHPP for my ds. Would have applied for pv at PHPP to increase his chance had we not chosen another school to do pv initially.


For popular schools, even those staying <1km may not be guaranteed a place so I would have thought any kiasu parent will up their chances by getting into phase 2b. To have a school take away that chance by not allowing pv to be those staying <2km would be cruel and even discrimination?

PVs serve the school. Religious groups are in a way part of the school's 'parent' as in Methodist, Presbyterian, Buddhism, clans. So, there is no way PVs can be given more credit.

markfch,
Some parents even do PV in 2-3 schools to increase their chances and also to learn more about the school culture. notabox must have her reason to choose Pei Hwa.

[markfch]

janet_lee88:

markfch,

Some parents even do PV in 2-3 schools to increase their chances and also to learn more about the school culture. notabox must have her reason to choose Pei Hwa.

I've a friend that did exactly that. That's why I won't be surprised that I know notabox. At the rate that I'm yakking away, I'm be GM (like you) in no time. Then can go area 51 . But must control a bit, ds already felt neglected.

[verykiasu2010]

janet_lee88:

notabox:

Recently moved within 1 km of PHPP for my ds. Would have applied for pv at PHPP to increase his chance had we not chosen another school to do pv initially.


For popular schools, even those staying <1km may not be guaranteed a place so I would have thought any kiasu parent will up their chances by getting into phase 2b. To have a school take away that chance by not allowing pv to be those staying <2km would be cruel and even discrimination?

PVs serve the school. Religious groups are in a way part of the school's 'parent' as in Methodist, Presbyterian, Buddhism, clans. So, there is no way PVs can be given more credit.

markfch,
Some parents even do PV in 2-3 schools to increase their chances and also to learn more about the school culture. notabox must have her reason to choose Pei Hwa.

you can be PV at a few schools, but can only be within 1 km of 1 or at most 2 schools (NYPS / RGPS), (MGS / PHPS) .....

[notabox]

janet_lee88:

PVs serve the school. Religious groups are in a way part of the school's 'parent' as in Methodist, Presbyterian, Buddhism, clans. So, there is no way PVs can be given more credit.

Well, my heart just goes out to PVs who failed to get a place for their kiddo after dedicating their time to the school. Unlike church/clan members who can have a few choices of school at phase 2B and can decide during registration which is the school they will have better chance, PVs have only that 1 choice.

[3Boys]

Pretty funny actually, this thread.


Funny that the PH principal would have resorted to this tactic without forseeing the fall out.

Funny because it is a zero-sum game, and by opening PV to only >2km, you have inadvertently disadvantaged another group of constituents <2km

Funny because if PH had controlled the PV intake carefully, even with the more than 2km restriction, then it would not matter a whit whether some ‘clever’ parents exploit the technicality by moving to <1km.

Is PV fair? I have done PV, gotten my son in because of it, but to my mind, is so inconsistent in its practice and so riddled with loopholes as to border on being corrupt.

The answer is really to just get rid of it…

[ChiefKiasu]

I have split this thread from the PHPS thread because it did not belong there. I have also removed irrelevant comments from this thread because they can be misinterpreted as personal attacks.


All schools and parents have to play by the rules set by MOE. The only variance that Principals have is the selection of PVs for Phase 2B qualification.

The rules laid out by the Ministry very clearly indicates that it prefers students going to schools based on the following priority:

1. Siblings are encouraged to go to the same school to reduce burden on parents, and so that they get to look after one another.

2. Parents are encouraged to send their children to their former schools to maintain school spirit and camaraderie.

3. Parents are encouraged to send their children to nearby schools to cut down on travelling and to reduce the burden on both parents and children.

Based on the above, unless a Principal feels that he/she wants to bring in more children of former students or students of a certain faith, it is very likely that he/she will encourage parents to go for PV only if they already stay close by. On top of the long term benefits, it also reduces the risk that the PV may not even have a chance to ballot for a place in the school in Phase 2B, even after completing the number of hours of PV work to qualify to register in Phase 2B.

Can a Principal allow only parents staying beyond 2km to become PVs? Yes, but it will go against the grain of conventional wisdom of wanting kids to do less daily travelling. And how will parents who stay near the school think? Why are they being discriminated against when their school is a stone’s throw away from their homes, versus someone who stay on the other side of the island? And because they couldn’t get to that nearby school, these parents may be forced to send their kids to another school much further away.

Can PVs shift nearer to schools to improve their chances in P1 registration? Of course they can. Is doing this cheating? Cheating occurs when someone manipulates or plays outside of the stated rules. There is no law against PVs moving house, and there never will be. It is just impractical to expect people to stay put just because they are doing PV for a school. And if a PV moves closer to a school, and not further away from it, most Principals will welcome that, because it means their students will be less fatigued from all that travelling.

What we have in the world is not fairness, but regulated means of allocating scarce resources. What will appear fair to people who benefit from the rules will appear unfair to those who don’t. There is no right or wrong - it’s just who’s view you choose to see from.

I’m just glad we do not have to resort to something like bidding for a Certificate of Entitlement to get into a school. That, I think, will be a tragic end to an otherwise good education system we have in Singapore.

[RRMummy]

ChiefKiasu:

I have split this thread from the PHPS thread because it did not belong there. I have also removed irrelevant comments from this thread because they can be misinterpreted as personal attacks.


All schools and parents have to play by the rules set by MOE. The only variance that Principals have is the selection of PVs for Phase 2B qualification.

The rules laid out by the Ministry very clearly indicates that it prefers students going to schools based on the following priority:

1. Siblings are encouraged to go to the same school to reduce burden on parents, and so that they get to look after one another.

2. Parents are encouraged to send their children to their former schools to maintain school spirit and camaraderie.

3. Parents are encouraged to send their children to nearby schools to cut down on travelling and to reduce the burden on both parents and children.

Based on the above, unless a Principal feels that he/she wants to bring in more children of former students or students of a certain faith, it is very likely that he/she will encourage parents to go for PV only if they already stay close by. On top of the long term benefits, it also reduces the risk that the PV may not even have a chance to ballot for a place in the school in Phase 2B, even after completing the number of hours of PV work to qualify to register in Phase 2B.

Can a Principal allow only parents staying beyond 2km to become PVs? Yes, but it will go against the grain of conventional wisdom of wanting kids to do less daily travelling. And how will parents who stay near the school think? Why are they being discriminated against when their school is a stone's throw away from their homes, versus someone who stay on the other side of the island? And because they couldn't get to that nearby school, these parents may be forced to send their kids to another school much further away.

Can PVs shift nearer to schools to improve their chances in P1 registration? Of course they can. Is doing this cheating? Cheating occurs when someone manipulates or plays outside of the stated rules. There is no law against PVs moving house, and there never will be. It is just impractical to expect people to stay put just because they are doing PV for a school. And if a PV moves closer to a school, and not further away from it, most Principals will welcome that, because it means their students will be less fatigued from all that travelling.

What we have in the world is not fairness, but regulated means of allocating scarce resources. What will appear fair to people who benefit from the rules will appear unfair to those who don't. There is no right or wrong - it's just who's view you choose to see from.

I'm just glad we do not have to resort to something like bidding for a Certificate of Entitlement to get into a school. That, I think, will be a tragic end to an otherwise good education system we have in Singapore.

:goodpost:

but to your Certificate of Entitlement to get into a school... :scared: :faint:

[verykiasu2010]

RRMummy:

ChiefKiasu:

I have split this thread



.

:goodpost:

but to your Certificate of Entitlement to get into a school... :scared: :faint:

don't ever try to sow that seed in the mind of the power that be on COE for P1 registration .... ...all the founders of those schools would certainly turn in their graves

[Funz]

I am one who is still waiting for PH’s reply to my PV application. I would like to believe that it is true that the school does favour those living >2km, cos I belong to that group. That said, it actually does not make much sense to do that.


I guess a fairer system is to ballot by removing the 1km, 2km classification since all PVs, regardless of where they reside would have put in the necessary hours to qualify. Let the rest be decided by luck, or in the case of the PH principal, GOD.

[KSP]

I know some super popular schools don’t even accept PV more than 1km.