Asian Mums are more SUPERIOR?
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2ppaamm:
Don't think I was harsh on Amy Chua. But I think she is taking her style is also an easy way out. The easiest way out, is like what she described, to be permissive and not discipline. Hers is the second easiest way out, which is to demand and discipline without consideration of the child's needs. The third way out is to respect the child's needs and do what you think is right for the child. The last is to train the child to find out his needs and passion, and then steer him/her to the best possible outcome. The last is what I want to be. I guess I'd never achieve, but I'd always try.
No, you haven't. You really do have a lot of energy and intellectual capacity to manage your children. If I cloned myself, I don't think I could accomplish half of you do. Your children seem to have benefited tremendously, and that is worthy of admiration, 'coz it ain't easy! -
3Boys:
No, there isn't. My point was made in response to the negative vibes being thrown around mothers who push their kids hard. Being a taskmaster is being frowned upon and the standard is set for a parent to be a supermom who learns all the skills in order to be able to sit down with each and every child to develop their potential to the maximum. I'm sure there are such parents around, but I am not one of them and I suspect its not realistic for a large number of other parents as well.[/quote]When my dd1 started learning the piano, I learnt together with her. It was not so tough as I used to learn the organ when I was a child. When she reached higher grades, we learnt to share our knowledge and discuss the questions in her theory papers. Her piano teacher even asked me to sit for the exam together with dd1. Dd1 was so thrilled and became more motivated to do well. Nothing beats this learning experience.
But is there a necessity to really learn the instrument with your child for the child to suceed in doing so? My boys can play their instruments well , but I never do learn the pieces they are learning and can't play as well. I don't sit with them for practices either.phankao:
[quote=\"3Boys\"]
If a mother does not have the wherewithal to even sit down and play the piano with the daughter, what chance has she to go the extra step and be the holistic developer?.
Next, I think I might have to pick up ballet for dd2...haha...
I let my dds learn according to their interests. Dd1 showed flair in piano skills so piano lessons were arranged. Dd2 has always enjoyed flitting around at home, so ballet lessons were arranged. Staying home helps me to identify their interests more distinctly and maximize their potentials at the earliest time. I don't follow Amy Chua's idea of having to learn only the piano or the violin. I felt my role is to identify what my children passionately enjoy doing, then I provide them with the resources and training. -
Battle Hymn of the Chinese Pet Pooch
http://petunialee.blogspot.com/2011/01/battle-hymn-of-chinese-pet-pooch.html -
2ppaamm:
I could do that on piano too. But my stiff fingers cannot possibly do that on the violin. I know, I've tried. So I couldn't take up the challenge no matter what. I did learn to play the violin myself - but for myself, not because of my boy. And I did learn comfortably up to gr 5 standard for violin and did pieces up to gr7 standard too, but not all types of pieces I could handle, lor - sadly. (the youngsters run thru' 10x and would get it and I do over several days also cannot). And I never did learn the instrument that my other son learnt - too difficult!
She threw her arms up in desperation and said, \"You do it, lah!\" Well, I couldn't. I thought to myself, what right do I have to demand she does it when I couldn't myself. It took me a week, but I worked on the part myself. My stiff old fingers which was aching from all the housework. But I did it. One afternoon, when she was playing the same piece, I played alongside her in the upstairs piano when she was downstairs playing.
She did not express much. She came upstairs and said, \"You can play it, when did you practice?\" I told her that I wanted to show her it is possible and from then on, she never challenged me again, and she did finish her grade 8 when she was 11 with a good score. She knew that even though she is not the most gifted on the piano, it is possible to do something beyond her abilities. I had to show her that I can too.
They've all done well nevertheless. I just want to hear improvement and know that they've put in work. The details, I can't really help them. But I do say \"by end of this week, this piece must be note-perfect\". And then the next goal would be \"by this week, can this piece by rhythm perfect?\"....and so on. But no, I don't sit and practise with them. Sadly with an in-arms baby when they were all developing fast in their music, this \"babysitting\" music practising was not possible.
So, in short, it is not always necessary. But you can pick up from the way they practise ... eg. the problem areas ... mention \"how about you do this very very very slowly for 10 or 20 times and we see what happens - just TRY\". And by the 3rd day, usually they can do it, and then increase the speed, and praise praise praise \"see, can you see you've just managed to smooth out that *kink*? See, you can do it! Now, why don't you try the other section\", and so on. Am afraid I only do this like a few times a month bc so busy running after all the kids and the baby! -
With music, I was lucky, but I wished I had been luckier.
On the piano, I am grade zero. When I was a eleven, I wanted to play the piano. My mother put me in piano classes but my father would not allow me to move the piano into the house even though my mother had already paid for it because his friends told him so (I still don’t understand why). So, I made a keyboard out of a piece of drawing block, drawing lines and colouring in the black keys using black coloured pencils and covered it up with the plastic wrapping paper that we used to wrap books with. On that plastic silent piano I made great progress. I finished Grade 1 books in a week, then moved to Grade 4 books in a year. Whenever this plastic piano gets torn and tattered, I’d spend time making an even stronger one by putting a stronger backing to it. Strangely, even playing on these silent self-made pianos, I had developed a perfect pitch by ‘hearing’ the pitch in my head and playing the music on my fingers.
One year later, my father moved to stop my piano classes because of PSLE. He wanted me to focus on my studies instead of humming to that piece of paper. So that’s the end of my piano exposure. Loved it, but never had a chance to pursue it meaningfully. I did well for the PSLE, we did not have a T-score, but I knew I did well because I went to the top girls’ school, and I was placed in the top class. In those days, you don’t need tuition or study very hard to do that, so I did not understand how that plastic piece of joy would have made a difference. It was sad for me.
In secondary school, I picked up 6 other instruments by my own, and completed Grade 7 theory through self-study, I scored distinctions for all the grades. Somehow, I was identified gifted by a SSO flutist who wanted to keep me as an apprentice. I didn’t believe a word she said, I thought she just wanted me to pay her $10 more per month, now how could I ever be gifted?! Then, I dropped the flute as well, even though I made it to the best orchestra for youths at that time, and shared the stage with the most famous musicians. I never thought I was anything talented.
With my children, I have never wanted them to pursue music. It was all a coincidence. I was working near NAFA and walked into the school one day out of curiosity. Then, I was told there was an audition and I just signed my son up. Surprisingly, he became the oldest kid who got into the gifted program. Being a pure amateur, he managed to clear 3 grades while the rest of the more experienced cleared 2 in 6 months. Music entered my children’s lives this way.
Sometimes, I reflect upon why I put my children through music classes and bother to sit through the practices day after day, month after month and year after year, child after child. It was not easy to breastfeed and sit at the piano while they practiced. It was not easy to sit through sometimes six hours when I was pregnant and sweating from the pain in my back and the pressure from the baby’s head pressing against my bones. It was even harder to explain to the teachers why my son could not play this difficult part and why he scored 135 and not 140+, and because I didn’t grill him enough, the teachers and principal therefore want him to repeat that grade to ‘reach his potential’. It was also extremely difficult to make the decision to pull my children out of gifted programs everyone crave to get into.
Like all the great mothers who have shared here, I guess our goals are quite the same. We want our children to achieve something beyond what their minds’ eyes can see. And we encourage them through actions, through words of encouragement and through our noses. At the end of the day, that diploma or grade 8 certificate means nothing compared to the tenacity they have learnt. I use my untrained fingers to show my children that if I can do it, so can they. Others use even better and more sophisticated methods. In the end, it is not the excellence that I want to instill but the perseverance. The former builds pride, but the latter builds character.
My oldest two no longer attend formal music lessons, and DS1 only plays some dissonance sound on the piano once in a while and I often wonder if he will ever use the 3 diplomas he earned through our hard work. But it did not matter. I know that because of his music education, he learnt how to work hard, sometimes into the nights, to believe in himself, and to use all resources within him to achieve the impossible. He’ll never be a Mozart or any kind of performer. But he has bettered himself through music. I’ve fulfilled my job in giving him an education. -
3Boys:
Both of you have a point. I suppose if a child had chosen to do something, say learn the piano, it's right for the parents to insist that he put in the effort and not give up if the going gets tough. On the other hand, if the child has no interest whatsoever in piano, then it's not a good idea for the parents to force the child to do it just because it's a good idea.snowman.697:
Just my 2 cents... I believe that if you are forced into doing sth that you aren't interested, it is not possible to give your best. Although mrs chua may think she knows the best for her child, let her daughters have a say too, then they can come to an agreement. Forcing a child to do what u want them to do because u think it's the best might give excellent results at the beginning, but if the child isn't interested in it, how do you continue all the way past adulthood and beyond?
But if you never tried, and gave up at the first hint of adversity, how do you excel at anything? If its worth doing, for sure it will be tough.
There're an exception though. A child can't afford not to do some of the core academic subjects like maths and languages. Like it or not, he has to do it up to a certain level. -
2ppaamm, after reading some of your posts, I think you’re such an exceptional mum with amazingly gifted kids. Yes, it’s definitely more difficult to train a child to discover their passion, than just disciplining and pushing them to do what we want.
Mind sharing where your 14 year old girl is headed for university? What is she going to major in? -
2ppaamm:
You are amazing. And you have 2 pianos in the house? We have 8 persons living in a 1100 sq ft - no space for too many instruments. I thought your elder daughter did violin at NAFA? Thought was your no.1 & no.3 that did piano at NAFA.With music, I was lucky, but I wished I had been luckier.
On the piano, I am grade zero. When I was a eleven, I wanted to play the piano. My mother put me in piano classes but my father would not allow me to move the piano into the house even though my mother had already paid for it because his friends told him so (I still don't understand why). So, I made a keyboard out of a piece of drawing block, drawing lines and colouring in the black keys using black coloured pencils and covered it up with the plastic wrapping paper that we used to wrap books with. On that plastic silent piano I made great progress. I finished Grade 1 books in a week, then moved to Grade 4 books in a year. Whenever this plastic piano gets torn and tattered, I'd spend time making an even stronger one by putting a stronger backing to it. Strangely, even playing on these silent self-made pianos, I had developed a perfect pitch by 'hearing' the pitch in my head and playing the music on my fingers.
One year later, my father moved to stop my piano classes because of PSLE. He wanted me to focus on my studies instead of humming to that piece of paper. So that's the end of my piano exposure. Loved it, but never had a chance to pursue it meaningfully. I did well for the PSLE, we did not have a T-score, but I knew I did well because I went to the top girls' school, and I was placed in the top class. In those days, you don't need tuition or study very hard to do that, so I did not understand how that plastic piece of joy would have made a difference. It was sad for me.
In secondary school, I picked up 6 other instruments by my own, and completed Grade 7 theory through self-study, I scored distinctions for all the grades. Somehow, I was identified gifted by a SSO flutist who wanted to keep me as an apprentice. I didn't believe a word she said, I thought she just wanted me to pay her $10 more per month, now how could I ever be gifted?! Then, I dropped the flute as well, even though I made it to the best orchestra for youths at that time, and shared the stage with the most famous musicians. I never thought I was anything talented.
With my children, I have never wanted them to pursue music. It was all a coincidence. I was working near NAFA and walked into the school one day out of curiosity. Then, I was told there was an audition and I just signed my son up. Surprisingly, he became the oldest kid who got into the gifted program. Being a pure amateur, he managed to clear 3 grades while the rest of the more experienced cleared 2 in 6 months. Music entered my children's lives this way.
Sometimes, I reflect upon why I put my children through music classes and bother to sit through the practices day after day, month after month and year after year, child after child. It was not easy to breastfeed and sit at the piano while they practiced. It was not easy to sit through sometimes six hours when I was pregnant and sweating from the pain in my back and the pressure from the baby's head pressing against my bones. It was even harder to explain to the teachers why my son could not play this difficult part and why he scored 135 and not 140+, and because I didn't grill him enough, the teachers and principal therefore want him to repeat that grade to 'reach his potential'. It was also extremely difficult to make the decision to pull my children out of gifted programs everyone crave to get into.
Like all the great mothers who have shared here, I guess our goals are quite the same. We want our children to achieve something beyond what their minds' eyes can see. And we encourage them through actions, through words of encouragement and through our noses. At the end of the day, that diploma or grade 8 certificate means nothing compared to the tenacity they have learnt. I use my untrained fingers to show my children that if I can do it, so can they. Others use even better and more sophisticated methods. In the end, it is not the excellence that I want to instill but the perseverance. The former builds pride, but the latter builds character.
My oldest two no longer attend formal music lessons, and DS1 only plays some dissonance sound on the piano once in a while and I often wonder if he will ever use the 3 diplomas he earned through our hard work. But it did not matter. I know that because of his music education, he learnt how to work hard, sometimes into the nights, to believe in himself, and to use all resources within him to achieve the impossible. He'll never be a Mozart or any kind of performer. But he has bettered himself through music. I've fulfilled my job in giving him an education. -
rosemummy:
behind every sad/bad situation, there us always a positive end. My daughter how i struggled with my asd chikd abd could not find help. or perhaps shefound some interesting characters on cable tv. She now wants to be the best psychologist in singapore one day. She will be majoring in that.2ppaamm, after reading some of your posts, I think you're such an exceptional mum with amazingly gifted kids. Yes, it's definitely more difficult to train a child to discover their passion, than just disciplining and pushing them to do what we want.
Mind sharing where your 14 year old girl is headed for university? What is she going to major in? -
phankao:
We have now three keyboards in the house. #2 was in NAFA violin when #1 was doing piano in NAFA. We then had to move to China for a few months and did not take the internal exams. As such, both were out of NAFA. When we returned, NAFA took #1 back (first in history) but I didn't bother to ask for #2 to return, because I really couldn't help her much on the violin. The violin is so small, and I get a neck ache from playing and scrambling for the strings, and I was too stingy to buy a full-sized violin. She then asked me to teach her the piano. I did, until grade 5, even though I did not have any qualification. I then got #1's teacher to teach #2 and #3. By then, I had taught #3 to grade 3 as well. We didn't put any more children through NAFA, in fact, we stopped #1 attending NAFA regularly as well when he was asked to repeat a grade despite scoring a distinction in ABRSM. I felt it was a demotivational thingy but I understood that NAFA was trying to 'make the best out of him'. Sometimes, I wonder if that was the right decision, but it's not important to make the right decision. We RIGHT every decision and move on.
You are amazing. And you have 2 pianos in the house? We have 8 persons living in a 1100 sq ft - no space for too many instruments. I thought your elder daughter did violin at NAFA? Thought was your no.1 & no.3 that did piano at NAFA.
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