How to tell if a child is gifted?

[mosster]

After stumbling on this thread after googling on giftedness, I read all your posts in the past 2 hours. Actually I devoured every comment and each of your comments gave me new hope for my 3 year old son. I have been so stressed and feeling so alone wondering what is the best thing to do for my son - homeschool? start nursery?

My DS1 started reading at 18 months and now at 3 years old, can read almost anything. of course, whether he understands it, is another thing altogether. At 2.5 yrs, he learnt to count in Japanese by himself while we were on holiday in Japan, by reading the English pronunciation from a tourist map while my hubby and I were unpacking in the hotel room. Seeing how he loved counting in a different language, we tried to ask our parents/filipina helpers etc to count to him in their dialect/languages. Since then, he’s learnt to count in 9 languages. After learning to count in the first few languages, he realised that after 20, the way the numbers are said/put together are the same. Soon after, he lost interest in counting in the different languages though he really loves counting. Recently, my dad introduced addition and subtraction to him and that’s his latest craze - giving himself maths questions/stories. I can’t remember even counting at 3, so I don’t know where he gets his great memory from. Well, that’s just some of the things he does, just to give you all a sense how he is.

In the beginning, I gave DS1 some flashcards, but most of the time, we read together. During meals, after meals, before bed, anytime. I worked half time so that I could spend more time with him. After seeing how my older colleagues stressed themselves over their kids only when they hit PSLE, I wanted to nurture my son to have a love for learning from the start, to have an open mind. After I gave birth to DS2, I stopped work altogether to spend time with the boys which was a blessing as DS2 turned out to have serious digestive issues.

DS1 is bright, funny and sweet, but his social skills are really behind. We had to train him, even now, to look us in the eye when he speaks. To join in the playground if there are other kids, he’d rather not go. He is an observer - he will not participate until he warms up, and that can take months. He doesn’t mix with other kids, not even his cousins who he sees every week. After attending some parent accompanied playgroup classes, finally after 3 semesters he can happily participate in class, instead of crying all the way and sticking like glue to me. However, since he’s now too old for that class, we are back to DS1 crying and sticking to me like glue in the new class. Recently, I started him on swimming lessons, and I am encouraged that he is, abeit reluctantly, having his class on his own with the instructor, without me.

My hubby and I have been thinking that perhaps sending him to a nursery would make him more independent and learn more social skills. Problem is all 5 schools we visited were not able/willing to adapt to his +s and -s. Even the school we finally settled on, we are taking a chance that they are truly as warm and adaptable as they claim. We know that, as in the playgroup that DS1 is already attending, he is not going to be learning much from nursery that he already knows in terms of head knowledge. I think if I teach him at home, he would probly learn more. All I’m hoping is in nursery school, he’ll pick up social skills, and hopefully not new bad habits! I feel like I’ve not morally prepared him for school!!

Am I overprotective? should I let him go to nursery, knowing he’ll be kicking his heels and crying all the way? I want him to be able to learn all he can learn, all he wants to learn, but I do so want him to make friends. Gain more grumpton.

I am thinking if preschool is so cookie-cutter, then what options does he have for primary school education?

I"m SO GLAD to have read your posts because they have given me new perspectives to really look at DS1 as an individual, and how do I, in my determination to let him be all he can be, help him be happy with himself when he grows up.

Sorry, I realise this is a really long post! but I really appreciate all your comments. Thank you!!

[mosster]

after reading my own post, I wonder if I am nuts. After all, it is only just nursery after all... right?

[2ppaamm]

mosster:

after reading my own post, I wonder if I am nuts. After all, it is only just nursery after all... right?

Hi, are you addressing this to anyone in particular? If so, please let us know, because it sounds like you are addressing your earlier post to someone. As I do post on this thread, if you are expecting a reply from me, please let me know.

In any case, I read your post and if I were to roll back on times, I'd probably do nothing differently, except spend more time with my child. There's really not much help out there for a severely gifted child, because the population is just so small, and the general education wisdom does not apply to kids who are THAT different. Can't really blame any system. Do further research and you will see the ones that stand out like Einstein, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mozart, Leonardo da Vinci... none of them are socially adept when they were young. They only got 'worshipped' when their gifts are found and flourished.

I've come to terms that perhaps my child is made this way because there's something bigger than what I can see for him. Perhaps. Schools look for perfection in our kids, which is not possible. I gave a doctor friend this advice, and it was she who reminded me again, that, \"You must be on your child's side, because no one else will be. No matter what others say, you know him the best.\"

Live with the fact that your child will never blend in, I've learnt that if I crave that, then I'd be disappointed again and again. But instead, choose a few friends he can cultivate great friendships with. Live with the fact that the teachers will never understand, even if they have been teaching for 25 years. Check the numbers. 25 years of 50 gifted (top 1%) students a year, that's 1,250 students taught. If the child is one in a million, the teacher should have to teach 50 years to meet a child like him. Ha ha... that explains why they'll never know how to handle. So live with that.

In nursery, my daughter was never asked to learn spelling or tested spelling, because she was reading novels. The teachers initiated that. She was allowed to sit below the swing and bask under the sun with a book. In an international school when we were in China, she was teaching the Grade 2 (or primary 2) children reading when she was in K2 herself. So the teacher has to be creative and engage the child.

In the primary school, my boys had a lot of problems, but not the girls. So watch out for the boys. Really. I can't give any advice because all my experiences had been HORRIFYING, despite having sincere, experienced teachers. I don't think it'd be different in different schools. We just don't have enough teachers to teach with love, they have their KPI's ultimately.

Key is, be bold and be a mother to your very gifted child. Otherwise, the world will overwhelm him so much, he will become just another robot creation, waiting for others to think, and he will react. And the ones who think are not the brightest, but the most obedient in schools.

[phankao]

mosster:

My hubby and I have been thinking that perhaps sending him to a nursery would make him more independent and learn more social skills. Problem is all 5 schools we visited were not able/willing to adapt to his +s and -s. Even the school we finally settled on, we are taking a chance that they are truly as warm and adaptable as they claim. We know that, as in the playgroup that DS1 is already attending, he is not going to be learning much from nursery that he already knows in terms of head knowledge. I think if I teach him at home, he would probly learn more. All I'm hoping is in nursery school, he'll pick up social skills, and hopefully not new bad habits! I feel like I've not morally prepared him for school!!

<snip>

I am thinking if preschool is so cookie-cutter, then what options does he have for primary school education?

<snip>

Are you able to find a montessori-style workgroup that can work according to his ability instead?

[2ppaamm]

O, one more thing. To train the child to be more independent - try having more kids and having less time for each! You'll see a vast difference! :lol:

[jtoh]

2ppaamm:

O, one more thing. To train the child to be more independent - try having more kids and having less time for each! You'll see a vast difference! :lol:

:lol: So true.

[mosster]

2ppaamm,

Thanks for responding. I am open to all comments, but particularly I was hoping you could also give your perspective. I’m very inspired by how you find ways to open the options to your children. I am not afraid to take the road less travelled but sometimes, one must meet people like you so that one too can see the other paths that can be taken.

Right now, I am feeling stressed because I’m supposed to start nursery for DS1 the Monday after CNY but I am having such cold feet. I don’t know whether it’s because I’m afraid to let go, or is it my intuition telling me something. It is not going to be easy to send DS1 to school and settling him down there also because DS2 (even now at 1 yr) can only take my breastmilk because of his severe allergies and refuses bottles/cups etc so leaving DS2 with my mum has been very stressful for all of us. Actually because of DS2, I’ve not been away from DS2 or home for more than 3.5 hours since he was born because of his feeding.

Could you advice on the dilemma weighing on my mind now? Fundamentally, is it is better to send DS1 to nursery school or homeschool DS1? maybe till K1? or even P1? DS1 has a love for learning that I hope going to school will not squash. I do not want him to learn to be a robot as you call it. Yet if he stays at home with me, will he be less independent? Less socially adept? How to inculcate good social/life skills for DS1? Even if as you say, he is never going to blend in, then how to at least learn to get along with people. How did your DS1 become so socially adept? One thing that I keep trying to get DS1 to be is more loving to his younger brother.

Yes indeed, since I had DS2, I’ve had so much less time with DS1. Not sure whether it’s because he is growing up or because I have really less time for him, he is willing to play independently for longer periods nowadays.


phankao
Thanks for the suggestion. I have not checked out Montessori programmes so far as DS1 is not really a sensorial learner plus the Montessori schools in my area are so “hot” that I didn’t bother with the queues. How do these Montessori workgroups work? I’ll check them out on the net.

pingsped
Count me in if you are organising something too. Thanks!

[2ppaamm]

mosster:

Could you advice on the dilemma weighing on my mind now? Fundamentally, is it is better to send DS1 to nursery school or homeschool DS1? maybe till K1? or even P1? DS1 has a love for learning that I hope going to school will not squash. I do not want him to learn to be a robot as you call it. Yet if he stays at home with me, will he be less independent? Less socially adept? How to inculcate good social/life skills for DS1? Even if as you say, he is never going to blend in, then how to at least learn to get along with people. How did your DS1 become so socially adept? One thing that I keep trying to get DS1 to be is more loving to his younger brother.

Yes indeed, since I had DS2, I’ve had so much less time with DS1. Not sure whether it’s because he is growing up or because I have really less time for him, he is willing to play independently for longer periods nowadays.

Hi,

I'm not sure if I have the answers to your questions regarding DS1 or DS2. However, I can share my own experience as mother to my own children.

I sent all my children to nursery, i.e. from age 2. All of them did well, except for #4. He is the one they call twice exceptional. Now that he is 10, he tells me that he was being bullied in school, because he was always the youngest in class (he was accelerated), so they bully him. Sad, because he now has massive anxiety problems. I'm not sure if it was the nursery, pre-school or primary school that caused this. Highly gifted children are also prone to anxieties because of their hyper awareness. He was worried about the ozone layer thinning out, worried about the SARs at three years old, worried about me driving in the rain at two, worried about everything. So, it really depends on your child and the centre. If it causes him anxiety, then you have to think of how to mitigate that.

I think there are merit in sending the children to child care. They learn to communicate and learn to learn from others besides you. This is the biggest problem I have with DS2, he largely learn by himself or through me. Teachers find him hard to teach, because he doesn't listen to them, but again, he multi-tasks very well. So even though he does not look like he is listening, he absorbs. I remember his nursery teacher telling me that he was walking around the classroom when she was teaching. At the end of the session, they were asked to do some work. He was the fastest. Not only that, he regurgitated everything she said, and went round helping his friends who were one year older. So, even if he doesn't appear to be learning, he could be.

I always have some sort of learning at home. With my oldest, I had a lot of time. So I'd buy books with lots of stickers and we like doing them. I didn't know he was gifted or not, it did not matter. He would finish two work books in one seating. Now that I have more kids, I realized this is not really normal. Some kids take weeks to do one booklet. But this boy had the love for learning, and I had time. He also loves to read. He reads 20+ book with me s in one seating at 9 months old. I also did not know this is normal or not, but I had time. So, he would go on and on, and I would just be willing to sit there with him. So, nobody can really quash a child's love for learning if you continue to nurture that love at home. This boy is now 16. He still loves to learn and he is not afraid to make silly mistakes. He often tells me he is the most stupid around. And that's fine. That way, he will never be afraid to ask questions and to learn from his own mistakes. I always tell him there's no such thing as a stupid question, and we are never too smart to ask.

If the child stays at home, he can be more or less independent than if he goes to school, depending on the way you 'train' him. If you have maids and parents and grandparents fussing over him, he will be spoiled. If he has to do everything on his own, he will be enabled and empowered. So really depends on your upbringing, and you have to think hard about that. Tough love is what my son calls it. I make them do as much as possible for themselves, including preparing their own meals at 7 years old. If they do not bring the laundry to wash, they have no clothes/socks/uniforms to wear even at 18 months. Clothes do not magically appear in their cupboards. If they do not ask me for help in their work, I will not ask, and they will not do well in school. I do not have maids in this house, neither am I the tuition teacher. And I always tell them we don't need tutors, so wake up in class. They have to take the initiative, especially now that they are bigger. My oldest take out the rubbish at night. My girls sew up their own clothes. When there is need to replace a button or two, a torn here and there, on their clothes, on they toys, on their bags, it's their responsibility. The work isn't perfect, but it will be one day. Even DS2 bakes his own brownies if he wants to bring some to school, he normally shares some with DS3.

As to how to make them blend in, I actually don't know except to help them cultivate a few good friends. In addition, I have the advantage of a large troop. My kids are very close to each other and they share a lot of common interests. I designed it that way. If jie jie likes this, mei mei does it also. If kor kor likes to do this sport, di di goes along. Many parents I do not know ask me how I bond them. Actually a lot of hard work, talks, counseling and fights, but at the end of the day, they cultivate the best of friendships, it is well worth the effort. This, however, does not mean they do not argue or quarrel. But at the end of the day, they are just so happy to have each other. The girls acknowledge each other as best friends, and DS3 thinks kor kor is the coolest guy. DS2 progressed from finding his younger brother irritating to 'ok lah'. DS1 is a few steps removed because he is older and in tertiary already. He is always the one baby-sitting or looking after someone. I guess there's more work needed.

DS1 is by nature a very socially capable boy. I honestly don't know how he learnt all those skills. Perhaps from his father? Or maybe by observing friends. Nowadays, he teaches me more than I teach him. While he is good at handling people, he has many acquaintances but only a few very good friends. And I guess that'll be the way for most of us. He is no party animal, though. He has simple hobbies and tastes, no branded stuff, no expensive habits. He even holds a regular part-time job. I like him a lot, and he makes me very proud about 95% of the time (used to be 90%, it will get better).

Hope the information helps!

[Chenonceau]

Whoa! 2ppaaamm… this is beautiful sharing.


I am thinking Mosster that you may need to read the child. Many people say that children learn social skills in childcare but I have met so many childcare children who claw at each other at birthday parties to get at the food, who ask rude and indiscreet questions of adults… who run around and yell.

I think basic social skills are learnt at home, with siblings and parents. It is the place where people take turns, think for each other, give way, collaborate and love, instead of compete… give and then take in equal measure.

The Daughter has always had a talent with people. She had no problems in preschool. In fact, the few times I brought her there, children clapped when she came through the door. When we came back from our overseas stint, we had peace and quiet at home for 1 day. Then she made ONE phone call and for the next 3 days, the phone rang off the hook. In secondary school, she lead one team a year for project work… and every year, the team would go straight to the top somewhere and be sent to represent the school somewhere. In Sec 4, she and her research team presented their paper at a conference in Germany sponsored by a high tech firm. I learnt a lot from her about how to relate to people. I don’t see her as cognitively very gifted because when she is face to face alone with the exam paper, her marks could be better. Her talent is in how she can quickly understand and manage the feelings of those around her, and how she can enthuse people. In Sec 1, she was telling me a thing or 2 about talentspotting project mates.

Little Boy was the exact opposite. Cerebral, quiet, retiring and reflective. He was miserable in preschool. He didn’t cry but he wasn’t happy. I think every child has his timing. If your Mommy instinct tells you that your son is not ready, then maybe he isn’t. I put Little Boy into school in nursery, and then I pulled him out. He went into K1 again, and got pulled out. He only managed to stay in preschool in middle K1. He had 1 friend then. In K2, he had 3 friends… very close. Every year, he finds himself 1 or 2 people to hang out with.

There are books you can use to help your son socially. Pictures of happy, sad and angry faces… I’m guessing that your boy needs to learn emotion recognition consciously. People like The Daughter could interpret every subtlety in the social terrain, and at 12 years, she could explain it to me in analytical terms so that I could understand. Once I understood, I could not help but think "It’s so obvious. Why didn’t I see it?" In her entire school life, she never complained about bullies… not because there weren’t any, but because she knew exactly how to defuse the situation and still stay friends. I dunno how she does it.

Little Boy needed talk throughs. Till today, Little Boy is wont to look into my face and ask me "Why is your face like this?".

There are also books with little scenarios that you can work through with your boy to give him a run-through of common social situations. And in daily interaction, you can talk through socio-emotional aspects. There are some children who need to learn about the socio-emotional world through their logical mind. Such children, however, don’t seem to need anyone to explain the logic of math and language. Social scenario training can provide a child enough confidence to tackle real life social situations that they would rather stay away from.

Your son may have a natural affinity for language and conceptual learning, but it is possible to round off his education with social training. The Daughter had a natural affinity for social and emotional situations but we needed to round her education off with the more usual math and language training.

It is commonly accepted that children will learn social skills in school. Maybe a normal child with average intelligence in every area of intelligence can do that (even then, looking at the behavior of children who go to full day childcare, I wonder) but if your child needs to be taught the ABCs of emotion recognition so that he feels comfortable to look at people’s faces when he talks to them, then he needs that from you BEFORE he goes into preschool because in preschool, it is assumed that you already know, and if you don’t, you will be bullied.

The thing is, whatever giftedness a child possesses, there are likely to be areas of need that need to be shored up so that they can function effectively when they reach adulthood. Left to his own devices in preschool, he will be traumatised, I think.

[jtoh]

I really enjoyed reading your posts, 2ppamm and Chenonceau. Thanks for sharing.