Throwing Tantrum

[ChiefKiasu]

smurf:

Hi MLR,


hmm...say if you keep 'giving in' to a child, like what u did (trying to clean up the mess without scolding/reprimanding him), would he in the long term take advantage of you? like, mummy isn't going to scold/beat me, so I can ontinue doing that. yipee! cos that's what my boy is doing...I try not to be angry with him..but he seems to take advantage of the situation and keeps doing the naughty things.:(

I think the idea is to calm him down first, and then talk and do a post-mortem with the child to explain what was wrong with his behavior.

[MLR]

Hiya smurf


No, its not giving in to him. After DS’s ‘bathing dino’ incident he had to help me clean up, like bringing his wet clothes to toilet, put back his hand soap and pail and also an apology to me for all the work. Also, he didn’t get to watch tv and had to be in time out corner for 30 mins.

About the serotonin level and coping with stress, its just to share that your child is sometimes not just being willful, just that his body chemical workouts is different. It is not an excuse for him to throw tantrums, just so that you prevent him from going into one and leads to hysteria.

In your case, it would be tougher cos he is 4 going 5. Having said that, its never too late. My suggestion would be to outsmart him, you know what are the things that get him started, so you should warn him about starting it. On the way, you hv to start telling him that if he start a tantrum or get upset becos he doesn’t get what he wants, then you would be angry and punish him. And when he starts to whine, you remind him about what you said, which is a form of distraction.

An example is DS not wanting to go to school every mornig for the past 2 weeks. He keep wanting to go zoo, cos we had a family day out with his cc’s zoo trip 3 weeks ago. He would start his chant about "no, I don’t want school, I want to go to the zoo" when I get him to change into his uniform. Intitially I would try to explain that we can’t go to the zoo everyday and we had just went. He starts to cry and a couple of times ended up vomitting his milk. This week, I change my tune to yes, we are going to the zoo, but we have to go to the school, so that we can go to the zoo together with your teachers and friends. Ended up he would out on his own shoes, hopped onto his stroller and tell me to be quick. By the time he reaches cc, meet his friends and teachers, he start talking to them about going to the zoo and got nicely distracted.

Of course since DS is not yet 3, its easier to "trick" him. For your case, you just hv to take a step at a time. And when you find him trying to outsmart you instead, take it as a good thing, cos he is smart and he is YOUR son.

I also feels that he is challanging your authority, so you got to step up and win his respect instead. Avoid doing something predictable, cos he smart and he knows how to push your button. If the pre-warn method don’t work, try the surprise method. Meaning that don’t tell him what or where you are going, just deflect his questions, and when start his tantrums, just turn back home or goes to the playground and let him let off steam instead.

Hope these suggestions help…Hang in there…

[mintcc]

ChiefKiasu:

smurf:

Hi MLR,


hmm...say if you keep 'giving in' to a child, like what u did (trying to clean up the mess without scolding/reprimanding him), would he in the long term take advantage of you? like, mummy isn't going to scold/beat me, so I can ontinue doing that. yipee! cos that's what my boy is doing...I try not to be angry with him..but he seems to take advantage of the situation and keeps doing the naughty things.:(

I think the idea is to calm him down first, and then talk and do a post-mortem with the child to explain what was wrong with his behavior.

I find that sometimes when they have this kind of melt downl, it is useless to implement punishment. For my DS, it will just make the situation worst. So I usually calm him down and only explain to him why what he did is not right after he is calm. But of course there are times when they \"pretend\" to have a melt down and those times usually land him to his nauthty corner...

[Funz]

Hi, interesting thing about the spirited child thing. For a period I suspected DD was a spirited or intense child. Some of the characteristics


Intense - more drama, more emotions, more cry response
high engergy - not to be mistaken as hyperactivity. These kids can stick to a task. Only problem is they need to be constantly occupied and engaged
low adaptibility
sensitivity to external stimuli
persistent

DD seem to exhibit all these. So I borrowed "Raising a Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka (I think). But never got around to really reading it. And watching a lot of Super Nanny. I picked up some tips here and there but since every kid respond differently to different method, it was a lot of trial and error for us to figure out how to handle DD. Looking back now, I think the few things that worked was teaching DD to handle her emotions and for me and DH to plan, plan, plan and prepare. We were kept on our toes most of the time. We will think ahead about what are the pitfalls and how to overcome them. Basically we anticipate how she will behave and have contingencies to handle each scenario.
I am always assuring her by acknowledging that we know she is upset and it is ok to cry but she needs to tell us what is upsetting her so we can help her. When DD was younger, we had to prompt her to tell us what is upsetting her. Then we had to show her better ways to deal with the situation that has upset her instead of crying and screaming. As she grew, we had more tools for her to manage her emotions.
We avoided loud, violent, sad shows and even storybooks with sad endings. There was once when she saw an episode of Tom & Jerry where Tom supposedly died, she came howling and crying and had nightmares for days and she refused to let anyone watch that cartoon for the longest time. She was about 3yrs old then. Over the years, we tested water by exposing her to things with sad endings but we had to be there to explain things to her. She was so affected by the Sichuan earthquake that she woke me up in the middle of the nite crying and saying that she is afraid that our house will collapse on us. I had to dig out my rusty geography knowledge to explain to her how earthquake happens at 3am in the morning. Till today, she is still worried whenever DH has to travel. She will grill him about where he is going and if that country is sitting on any plates, etc.
We have to plan out time with our kids. There is no such thing as see how or just play by ear where weekends were concerned previously. Even if we are not heading out, we have to plan some activities at home to keep her occupied. When planning an outing, we have to stay 2 step ahead of her and tell her what to expect, what we expect of her, in the that event that we need to change plans, what to expect, etc. Even a simple trip to the supermarket with her has to be done in such a manner.
Now that she is 6yrs old, things are a lot better. Looking at her today, no one would have guessed how tough those years were. She can still get difficult sometimes but compared to what we went thru when she was younger, it is mild.

[MLR]

Funz:

Intense - more drama totally, so much so that teachers thought I send him to enrichment classes for drama and play ,

persistent, which most times taken as being stubborn

[quote]every kid respond differently to different method, it was a lot of trial and error for us to figure out how to handle DD. Looking back now, I think the few things that worked was teaching DD to handle her emotions and for me and DH to plan, plan, plan and prepare.[/quote]This is SO true. DS is going three now and we as parents are going thru a steep learning curve on how to deal with him as well as ourselves.
[quote]When DD was younger, we had to prompt her to tell us what is upsetting her. Then we had to show her better ways to deal with the situation that has upset her instead of crying and screaming. As she grew, we had more tools for her to manage her emotions. [/quote]We are at this stage right now, he is able to communicate pretty well and we are trying our best not to let our own emotions get in the way (especially me).

Thank you for sharing your experiences, glad to know that it will not be forever....

[Funz]

MLR:

We are at this stage right now, he is able to communicate pretty well and we are trying our best not to let our own emotions get in the way (especially me).

Thank you for sharing your experiences, glad to know that it will not be forever....

That is the thing dd too can communicate very well. She started talking very early. In full sentences, dun remember any baby talk from her actually. And because of this, DH and I were sooo frustrated cos we expect her to be able to verbalise her emotions as well. We were always asking her, you can talk, why can't you just tell us what is it that you need instead of crying and screaming? But her ability to talk is not a reflection of her emotional maturity. We learned that eventually and that was when we started helping her address her emotions.

Glad to be able to share something.

[Skippy]

Hi Tamarind

Just thought I would mention that the ‘naught mat’ or ‘naughty corner’ is advocated by the Super Nanny as she calls herself on television. The Super Nanny herself admits that she has not read a single parenting book, nor she has got any children herself, nor does she have any formal qualifications on parenting - yet millions of people are now putting this into practice.

How could I as a parent, take any advice from this lady considering the above non qualifications? It’s food for thought isn’t it?

When I watched recently a reality TV show where the mum has 8 kids, she said "at any given moment someone is using the naughty mat in our home" meaning some kid is sitting there angry as ever at some time throughout the day - she seemed rather proud of these statistics !

To me, it showed me and all the viewers that it does not work. Which means they are not learning from this experience. If it worked, then no kid should be there after visiting the mat or the corner for the first 2 times !!

Skippy

[smurf]

DS2 17mths old. can't talk, not even addressing me. but, has a temper which is explosive. :!:


when he can't get what he wants, such as ice cream, sweets, toys,etc, he throws tantrum. and he can scream and shout at the top of his voice, stomps feet, beats people, and throw things. and he can throw thing until the thing break. :!:

Should I beat him? I told him cannot do that, but he still does that and at 17 mths, I dun think he will remember or understand NOT to do that again.

Also, if he is displeased, he can stare at you and blink, u know like, 'buay song' like that.haha. after the blink, he will walk away. leaving u dunno what to do. :?:

[momoshop]

smurf:

DS2 17mths old. can't talk, not even addressing me. but, has a temper which is explosive. :!:


when he can't get what he wants, such as ice cream, sweets, toys,etc, he throws tantrum. and he can scream and shout at the top of his voice, stomps feet, beats people, and throw things. and he can throw thing until the thing break. :!:

Should I beat him? I told him cannot do that, but he still does that and at 17 mths, I dun think he will remember or understand NOT to do that again.

Also, if he is displeased, he can stare at you and blink, u know like, 'buay song' like that.haha. after the blink, he will walk away. leaving u dunno what to do. :?:

Hi Smurf

I face similar problems with my No. 2 too . He is now 30 months and only just begun to speak. We have always worried about his speech ability but put off the \"testings\" as we want to give him a chance to develop and see, without being too KS.

There is a lot of frustration with not being able to speak. From 17months, I believe they have a strong cognition of situations, wants and preferences. However, not having the means to express those lead to immense frustration. If you understand this source of frustration, it will help you cope with the \"tantrums\" better. That is a starting point.

If I am not wrong, your child is able to focus on what he wants for a long period of time? What we call \"more focused,more determined\" and hence, when he does not get what he wants, he perserves more than other kids?

If that is the case, pls also see these as strengths in the child. A mind of his own, an ability to stand up for what he wants strongly and a will to perservere. I know it can be tough, but these are really positive kids. To give you an example, My no. 1 has always been more \"amicable\". He can be easily distracted form his tantrums, or persuaded to try other toys/ activities to avoid the tantrums. So in every sense, compared to no. 2 He is an easier kid to manage. However, over times, we worry that he is easily distracted and have less sense of what he wants. And we now have to teach him to stand up for what he wants, and to perservere when he meets difficulties.

So, if you begin to understand the source of frustration (not being able to express his wants), and that his tantrums do point to some positive characters traits, all these will equip you with more patience when dealing with your kids. That is what helps for mine.

Then next is to learn to \"read\" your child correctly. For a kid who can express yet, a lot of tantrums rerult from mis-understanding. Many times, my no. 2 will have given signal of displeasure, and before he goes into a meltdown, if you are able to communicate through him by affirming his emotions (e.g. frustration - you are angry that you can't fix this/ desire - you want to have that sweet?), once the child knows that you understand him, he will be arrested/ paused and that gives you a chance to prevent the meltdown. In this process, you are also teaching him words of expression that he can use when he grows older.

Pls do not resort to beating as he will not understand at 17 months. patience is the key, and understanding him will go a long way. I find the book \"How to Talk to kids so that kids will listen\" to be very useful. In it are very useful tips to help you communicate with your kids so that they know you understand them, Sometimes it is as simple as going along with them and say their words back at them \"so you want the cake?\" when they express they wanted a cake.

Kids get frustated (so do we) when they think that parents do know understand them. And in a case of a child who is not speaking yet, the only way to understand them better is to look at thier cues. Are there specific actions that they do for certain objects that they want, e.g. bolster or book etc (my no. 2 started saying \"ster\" at 24 months we it took me a long time to understand that it refers to his bolster cuz I was a wking mum then).

Also sometimes it helps to notice what comforts and calms down your child. To give you an e.g..
We moved recently to another country and I became a full time mum at home with the kids. And No 2 was a nightmare with his tantrums cuz we could not really dicipher what he wanted. It took a long time for us to know what he wants, and even then he was like close to 30months already and not speaking very well.

Back in Sg, he would comfort himself by crying in front of a toy shelf (always run there to cry and sulk, for some time alone, and then pick a toy out from there to play and then be diverted). When we moved, he could not find his toy shelf to cry, and we realised that when he goes into a tantrum, he runs around the house like he was mad and it me a LONG LONG while to realise he was looking for a place to soothe himself.

Sometimes, if your kid can't sooth himself, he may be too young, just hugging him and not saying anything (and block your ears) till the tantrum passed and then talked to him may be the way. It takes a lot of patience but it is better than fighting him, screaming at him etc, which all agitate him and do not help him calm down.

But the key, IMHO, is to identify the points before he goes into a tantrum. That will help.
Also, at 17 mths, kids still need a very stable routine so they know what to anticipate next. And if you keep to the routine, they know what is coming, and less overwhelming for them, it can help to reduce the incidents of conflicts really. perhaps you also need time to always analyze what are the trigger that resulted in the meltdown. So that the next time a similar thing happens, you can pre-empt that can calm him down, or give him an alternative, emphatising with his emotions before he screams.

For things that he wants, e.g. ice cream etc, I always pre-empt by bringing an acceptable snack when we go out so that I pre-empt them by saying, I know you want ice-cream, but I have this, your fav gummies. What colour do you want?

If you can distract them before they became \"fixated\" to what they want, it sometimes work.

Smurf, it is not easy, I nearly tore my hair out last 2 months alone with the kids and no. 2 in tantrums at least 5-6 times a day when we first moved here. But i realised once i replicate his routine in SG, and orientate him to the new environment, and also learnt to \"read\" him better, it really helps!

Hope this gives you some comfort. Oh, and I am v proud of my no. 2, trouble as he is, cuz I think he has a very strong perosnality which I appreciate. I see it as a sign of strength. So take heart!

[buds]

smurf:

.......when he can't get what he wants, such as ice cream, sweets, toys,etc, he throws tantrum. and he can scream and shout at the top of his voice, stomps feet, beats people, and throw things. and he can throw thing until the thing break. :!:

momoshop:

For things that he wants, e.g. ice cream etc, I always pre-empt by bringing an acceptable snack when we go out so that I pre-empt them by saying, I know you want ice-cream, but I have this, your fav gummies. What colour do you want?

Ice-cream & candy given at young age? :!: