All About Health Insurance

[ZacK]

jedamum:

- as above, will it be easier to get the grownup kids to co-finance yearly premiums of 'as-charged' plans for healthy retiree, or easier to get the grownup kids to co-finance the hospitalisation bills of insured party who is holding 'plans with a cap limit' which has a lower premium?

Wow this is a toughie jedamum reason being we are talking about the unforeseen... Some people only use $1 to buy TOTO quickpick and got $10million hongbai draw and others may spend tens of thousand over decades and may not even strike the lowest prize... Errmm not sure if this is an apt analogy

IMO... It depends on what is the extent of the cap limit, what happens if it's a prolonged and major illness that well exceeds the cap limit, would your kids still be able to cough up the remaining balance? Will they be burdened by it?

Based only on the two options that you are proposing, if the budget permits, personally for me, I will have the kids co-fund the premium for the \"as-charged\" plan, for peace of mind for both the kids and parents.

If budget is limited, perhaps can still get a higher cap limit plan and have the kids co-fund the premium.

If budget is an issue, I will get whatever plan I can afford... Because that is the best that I can make out of my situation. Having some coverage is better than having no coverage at all. JMO.

[jedamum]

Hi Zack, thanks for participating in my dilemma.

ZacK:

what happens if it's a prolonged and major illness that well exceeds the cap limit, would your kids still be able to cough up the remaining balance? Will they be burdened by it?

RE: Claim Limit
When we are looking at the difference in Claim Limit Per year for 'as charged' plans, my husband said that if the illness exceeded the $150k per yr limit, the condition is as good as gone :roll:
But then again, inflation is causing value of money to shrink; $150k Claim limit may be very little in 50yrs time.

RE: Bills exceeding Cap Limit for 'non-as-charged' plans
You are right in saying that it is an unforseen issue; it is a 'what if our kids/we can't afford the bills' vs 'what if our kids/we can't afford the hefty premiums' issue.
Our points of consideration is that if we can't afford the hefty hospitalization bills in drastic cases (ie poverty), govt hospitals allowed deferred/instalment payment. But if we can't afford the premiums, insurance coy will just terminate the policy.

ZacK:

Based only on the two options that you are proposing, if the budget permits, personally for me, I will have the kids co-fund the premium for the \"as-charged\" plan, for peace of mind for both the kids and parents.

If budget is limited, perhaps can still get a higher cap limit plan and have the kids co-fund the premium.

If budget is an issue, I will get whatever plan I can afford... Because that is the best that I can make out of my situation. Having some coverage is better than having no coverage at all. JMO.

The dilemma now is that the budget permits for now; but we can't forsee if we can sustain it for the next 60yrs especially the last 30yrs of life. That's why i need to find out from my insurer if downgrading of plans will require a re-underwriting.

I was telling my husband that we should consider using the kid's endowment funds to co-fund our hospitalization insurance coverage in our retirement years

[ZacK]

Hi Jedamum,


Those are very valid issues that you have raised... That is why financial planning is so interesting because everyone's needs and wants and values and perception towards life and issues are so varied and different.

Bounce your thoughts off your agent and weigh the pros and cons of each option. Some pros in one option may touch you closer to your heart, whatever the case may be... do not commit or make your decision unless you are at peace and comfortable with your choice.

:celebrate:

[jedamum]

ZacK:

Those are very valid issues that you have raised...

Thanks for the reassurance - before i label myself a pessimist.

These thoughts are costing me my sleep

i just want to highlight my concerns so that those who feel that they are fully covered under health insurance should revisit their policies time-to-time to view the sustainability - it is one issue to be fully covered in the short run and another to have partial coverage, but sustainable in the long run.

Just to voice out some of my further thoughts (again)...
Unless really faced with the situation, humans tend to be over-complacent (ie 'won't happen to me la') - i am definitely guilty of such . So the thought of seeking co-financing of premiums from the insured's (who is healthy) kids may be an uphill task if the insured's kids, depending on their age of marriage, may need to finance their kids' education ('sandwich generation'). so unless the insured show signs of not being in the pink of health, asking to co-fund the premiums may seem a bit difficult. Co-paying of hospitalization bills (if needed), though is more costly compared to the premiums paid out, is however a 'no-choice' situation and depending on the situation of the insured's kid's financial situation, govt hospitals are a bit flexible in bills repayment (as compared to insurance coy's premiums payment).

My husband's take is not to rely on the kids; so any one has any good get-rich plan that doesn't involve investment in bank products?

[RRMummy]

jedamum:

My husband's take is not to rely on the kids; so any one has any good get-rich plan that doesn't involve investment in bank products?

Hi jedamum, thanks for sharing your thoughts here.. sure serves as a good reminder..

Yup, my DH also says don't plan our future relying on our kids - wether be it that they are not able to help out due to their own commitments or touchwood they end up like those new generation who thinks giving anypow once or twice a year is sufficient..

he says we gotta be self-reliant when we grow old but if they take care of us bonus for us! :love:

psstt.. of course that does not mean momma can't have hidden agenda in teaching them it is always important to care for the old..

[ZacK]

jedamum:

These thoughts are costing me my sleep

i just want to highlight my concerns so that those who feel that they are fully covered under health insurance should revisit their policies time-to-time to view the sustainability - it is one issue to be fully covered in the short run and another to have partial coverage, but sustainable in the long run.

Just to voice out some of my further thoughts (again)...
Unless really faced with the situation, humans tend to be over-complacent (ie 'won't happen to me la') - i am definitely guilty of such . So the thought of seeking co-financing of premiums from the insured's (who is healthy) kids may be an uphill task if the insured's kids, depending on their age of marriage, may need to finance their kids' education ('sandwich generation'). so unless the insured show signs of not being in the pink of health, asking to co-fund the premiums may seem a bit difficult. Co-paying of hospitalization bills (if needed), though is more costly compared to the premiums paid out, is however a 'no-choice' situation and depending on the situation of the insured's kid's financial situation, govt hospitals are a bit flexible in bills repayment (as compared to insurance coy's premiums payment).

My husband's take is not to rely on the kids; so any one has any good get-rich plan that doesn't involve investment in bank products?

Hopefully after you have your meeting with your agent... You can have some peace of mind again

It's good that you are sharing some of your concerns here, as you are not alone. Many people will at one point come to the same situation as you are in now, so it would be good to highlight some of these issues for awareness.

Many parents of our generation would not want to rely on our kids and rather plan to be self-sufficient. Personally I would do the same too, as our kids lives may not be any easier when they are grown up. During my parents time, children are the source of insurance for them and naturally the more kids they have the merrier When my parents were hospitalised, it helped that we have a BIG family. So the financial burden was shared among us and this reduced the burden on each of the kids individually.

The family unit now comprises mostly 1 - 2 kids, so that old school of thought where kids are the source of parent's insurance and retirement planning cannot be applied anymore.

Every family will have their own considerations and limited resources, the objective is to be able to achieve the most desired arrangement based on whatever resources we can commit.

:celebrate:

[ZacK]

RRMummy:

psstt.. of course that does not mean momma can't have hidden agenda in teaching them it is always important to care for the old..

We can never go wrong with that \"agenda\" ... Ultimately we hope we are bringing up humans with emotions and feelings and not to put it crudely \"禽兽“

[ZacK]

[Editor's note: Topic selected for http://www.kiasuparents.com/kiasu/content/guide-buying-life-insurance.]


Illustrated below is an attempt to bring you through the sales process of buying an insurance and also highlight the considerations (my personal views which you may choose to differ) at each stage of the process.

Guide to Buying Life Insurance

Step 0. You wonder if you are adequately insured? What do you do?
You may choose to :-
1.\tApproach an agent with a life insurance company (This agent would be able to help you arrange insurance contracts from one life insurance company and up to three general (non-life) insurance companies);

2.\tApproach a broker with an insurance brokerage firm (This broker would be able to help you arrange insurance contracts from multiple life and general (non-life) insurance companies); or

3.\tApproach a bank relationship manager (This is however limited to the specific tie-ups that the bank has with insurance companies and more often than not, the bank will only select the more “popular” policies to sell).

4.\tDo absolutely nothing!

Note 1: The above descriptions are based on norms and exceptions to the above do exist. I will not be focusing on purchases via the bank RMs as their approach is typically transactional in nature and do not typically follow the Sales Advisory process that will be illustrated below.

Note 2: In many of the consumer materials, you will find the term financial adviser. “Financial adviser” defined by MAS refers to the financial institution/firm (i.e. They would be your bank, insurance companies or brokers etc). Representatives of financial advisers are called financial advisers representatives or FA reps for short.

Assuming you decide to meet someone to do your planning, this will then lead you to the Sales Advisory Process. The Life Insurance Association defines this as a 6 step sales process illustrated below:
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Stage 1: Establish and define client-representative relationship
-\tIf you are meeting your FA rep for the first time, the FA rep will explain the purpose of the meeting and importantly the information that he must share with you would be the company he is with; whether he has an agency relationship with an insurer or he has a brokerage relationship with an FA firm; the types of financial advisory services and the investment products he can provide, whether he is remunerated by commissions or via a fee/charge for the advisory service.

-\tAsk the FA rep to bring you through the sales advisory process so that you have a better idea of what is required at each stage of the process.

-\tNote that you may terminate this process at any of the stages 1 – 5. However if you do so at later stages, you will invariably be wasting both yours and the FA rep’s time. So it is important for you to be comfortable with the FA rep AND the process that you are going through as early as possible.

-\tIn looking for a FA rep, I value chemistry and trust in the client-representative relationship highly, as I will be disclosing very confidential and personal information to the FA rep. Thereafter, I will consider his qualifications and track record to ascertain that he/she is committed to his field of work.

Stage 2: Gather data, including goals
-\tThis is called the fact-find stage. Any credible FA rep before he makes any recommendation to you must first ascertain amongst others your needs, concerns, financial goals, risk appetite, networth and importantly your cash-flow position, to ascertain if you have surplus funds to set aside a fixed budget before getting into new commitments. Unless you are committed to setting aside a fixed budget regularly to address your financial goals, you should re-consider getting yourself into long-term commitments. This is so that you would not regret on your decision and end up stopping your insurance pre-maturely resulting in a considerable amount of financial loss.

-\tNote that before you start to reveal any confidential information, you have the choice of choosing the type of financial advice that you want the FA rep to provide. Typically they are:

o\tOption/Type 1 Fact Find: Means that you request for full advice. This requires you to complete the full fact-find and provide necessary and accurate information in order for the FA rep to be able to perform a comprehensive assessment of your financial situation.
o\tOption/Type 2 Fact Find: Means that you request for partial advice. This also means that you do not wish to provide full information and conversely, the FA rep would only be able to give you advice based on the limited information that you reveal.
o\tOption/Type 3 Fact Find: Means that you request for product advice only. This means that the FA rep can only provide specific advice on a particular product to meet your specific needs.
o\tOption/Type 4 Fact Find: Means that you do not wish to receive any advice and that you want your FA rep to simply out your request in relation to the type of policies that you want to sign up for.

-\tAs much as we do not wish for things to go wrong, you should note that by choosing options other than 1 for full advice, you are in fact helping the FA rep by reducing his liability when things go wrong with your policy. When FAs receive complaints from their costumers in relation to their policies, the type of fact-find conducted and correspondingly the level of reliance placed on the FA rep’s advice and recommendations is one of the key areas of consideration on how they will handle your complaint.

Stage 3: Analyse and Evaluate Financial Status
-\tThis is where the FA rep after gathering the information in the fact-find form will go back and evaluate your financial situation in relation to your objectives. He/she may check back with you to clarify/ask for information that you have/have not provided during stage 2.

Stage 4: Develop and Present Recommendations
-\tBased on the analysis and evaluation done in Stage 3, the gaps identified will form the basis which the FA rep will use to explore the possible solutions for you to meet your objectives.

-\tDepending on the FA, some FA reps will give you a proper financial analysis report containing the information that you have provided in the fact-find form, their analysis of your financial situation, gaps identified (if any) and recommendations to address the gaps relating to the concerns that you have indicated to your FA rep.

-\tThe FA rep should be able to present to you in a logical manner based on the information that you have provided, what he/she has analysed and his/her findings in relation to any gaps that he/she has identified. Thereafter, he/she will present the recommendations to you. Ideally the FA rep should offer you two or more options and then help you to understand the pros and cons of each option. This will give you some comfort that he/she has done a reasonable amount of due diligence in working out the possible solutions for you.

Stage 5: Implement Recommendations
-\tProvided that a need was uncovered when the FA rep presented his findings to you in stage 4, this is where you consider acting on the recommendations.

-\tDo not allow yourself to be pressured into taking up any recommendations. Inform the FA rep if you feel that you need time to deliberate on what the FA rep has shared with you. This is to allow yourself time to consider if the options presented to you would be appropriate for you.

-\tBased on my experience, if the FA rep has done a good job in analyzing your information, identifying possible gaps relating to your high priority needs and thereafter presenting relevant solutions to address your needs. It would be natural for you to initiate the buying process to want to take up the recommendations. A condition that I use for myself is that I must be at peace with the decision to go ahead in taking up the recommendations, if I have the slightest doubt, I will defer making any decisions.

-\tDo note that you have the right to differ or deviate from the FA rep’s recommendations. In which case, if you choose to proceed based on your counter-proposal, the FA rep will make a note that you have chosen to deviate from his/her proposed recommendations.

-\tAt the point of applying for your policy/policies, the FA rep should cover some general terms and conditions of the policy with you. Importantly you should note if your policy comes with a “free-look” period that gives you 14 days to review the full terms and conditions of your policy contract. Should the terms of the policy contract differ from that which was explained to you by the FA rep, you may ask to cancel the policy and ask for a refund.

-\tPersonally, in identifying if a policy is suitable for me, I would ascertain what are the trigger events that will trigger a payout from the policy and then evaluate if these trigger events correspond to the situations that I want my policy to cover. Alternatively, you may wish to ask your FA rep using your primary concerns as a reference point e.g. In the event that I am stricken with an illness and unable to work due to the illness, how much will the policy payout etc? Once you have gone through your concerns in this manner and identified that your policy/policies will provide the necessary payouts in those situations, you should be able to derive some comfort to know if the policy is the right one for you.

Stage 6: Review with Client Periodically
-\tA FA rep who is committed to his work and his clients will conscientiously keep in touch with you conduct a review of your policy/policies and to monitor changes in your financial circumstance. There is no hard and fast rule, but a norm would be to conduct a review annually. Should there be changes to your financial circumstance, you should also take the initiate the update your FA rep.


Useful References:
1.\tGo to “Consumer Zone” tab of the Life Insurance Association Singapore (http://www.lia.org.sg)
2.\tGo to “Publications” tab of Moneysense (http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/news_events/Consumer_Portal_Latest_News.html)

[titank]

[Moderator's note: Topics merged.]


Hi All,

Anyone purchase any personal accident for child? Trying to find with some kind of benefits as follow:

(1)$1000-$2000 per injury. Can go medical clinic or TCM.
(2) Hospitalistaion & ICU coverage like $75/day, $150/day etc
(3) Can have some kind of refund if there is claim or no claim after certain period of duration.Eg 2, 3 years.

Those who have such expereinces so can share? Being getting calls from crdeit card centre listen until I blur on thier ins products. :!:

[jedamum]

kelamel:

Btw i am from an licensed financial co.

We represent a few insurers .....fyi those belowmentioned are highly reco to read....

http://www.income.com.sg/insurance/eldershield/
http://www.aviva-singapore.com.sg/ (look for eldershield)

Anyone bought Eldershield package for their parents?
1. Which insurer did you get from?
2. Did you take on any riders?

I have not read through NTUC's package, but a brief reading from Aviva and GreatEastern's package, Aviva's rider plans have option for lifetime benefit payable while Greateastern's comprehensive plan only has max 10yr benefit payout. Greateastern's premiums is rather transparent from their website, while Aviva's rider plan's premium rates are not available on their website.