English - Quoting a Sentence in OE Comprehension
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Dear MathIsFun,
I was the concerned mum who posted the first question,which you have just kindly contributed your answer.May I ask if you are absolutely certain about your choice \"He ate like a pig.\"(with a single full-stop inside the speech marks and no other full-stop at the end of the whole sentence.Different schools/teachers seem to be teaching /accepting different versions.How did you derive at your choice?
Thanks a bunch!
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AgonyMum:
Only when quoting a phrase, the full stop ends outside.Hi,can someone help to clarify the proper way of quoting a sentence?
In Open-ended Compre,children are often asked to find a sentence from the passage -
eg. Which sentence in paragragh 2 tells you that John is famished?
Should the answer be
a. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig.\".
(There are two punctuations so it is wrong)
b. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig\".
(You are quoting a sentence so the full stop belongs to that sentence)
c. The sentence is \"John ate like a pig.\"
(this is the correct way to quote a sentence)
I am not sure of the correect way to punctuate.
Pls help.Thanks!
hth -
MathIsFun:
I agree that this answer would be accepted in most Singaporean, and other, schools. However, I still persist that the full stop really belongs to the bigger sentence within which the quote is enclosed and so the full stop should go outside the quotation marks. Here's why, and you're most welcome to correct me, and I will be grateful if proven wrong:
For sentences:
The sentence is \"John ate like a pig.\"
The fullstop should only be inside the quote when it is a sentence, therefore for the 1st post, (c) is the correct answer.
Not all sentences end in an endmark such as a full stop: They can end in, for instance, a semi-colon because they are being connected to a subsequent sentence. Let's say we have:
John ate like a pig; it's really disgusting to watch him.
Would you write?:
The sentence is \"John ate like a pig;\"
You would be forced, unless you are using American English, to write:
The sentence is \"John ate like a pig\".
Anyway, that's not run-of-the-mill and I apologise in advance if I have clouded the waters further.
Rgds
R -
AgonyMum:
Hi I can understand your agony and :frustrated:Very grateful for the responses from all parents and educators.However,after reading through all the mail,I realised that there is no concensus about this issue.I have looked through quite a number of assessment books and all their supposed \"model answers\" are somewhat different.
Is it possible to approach MOE for clarification?How do I go about doing this?Would really appreciate some advice.
Thanks!
I'd attended my P3 kid's parent workshop somewhere early in this year. This topic was covered under \"common errors\" made by students. See below:
1) Give a sentence
E.g.
Q) Which sentence in the passage tells you that John is happy?
A1 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\". (This is correct.)
or
A2 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\" tell us so. (This is correct too.)
> Copy word for word.
> Do not leave out any word or punctuation.
> Do not put a comma after \"is\".
For A1, The main sentence must end with a full-stop to complete it (as in A2) (Hope my layman term is clear. :oops: )
For your info, we were told by the HOD English that:
1. All sentence quoting, students have to use double quote, \"....\"
2. All phrases quoting, students have to use single quote, '....'
I really have to salute to all the kids having to remember all these!!! :yikes: :faint: :faint:
No need to go to MOE to clarify lah, just email to the HOD English for their marking scheme will do, just my humble opinion.
Hope my post doesn't offend any expert here... -
Bookwormkids, thanks for sharing. Regarding clarifying with MOE, if every school teaches and marks differently, this would be a question beyond HOD as they cannot even standardize among themselves. To me, this is only a convention, it does not stop us from understanding the intent of the sentence so there is no real importance in terms of knowledge, the only real importance is how PSLE marks it to avoid the loss of points, that’s all. I don’t think anyone will be penalized at work for such punctuations unless it completely changes the meaning of the sentence and whether single or double quotations, it is the same. It is not going to make a company lose it’s competitive advantage to submit a tender document with a pair of single quotes or double quotes, that is the reality.
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Dear bookwormkids,chasingjelly,MathIsFun,ksi and ridcully,a very big thank you for all careful and detailed explanation.I find all the discussion really helpful.
From a very grateful mum. :grphug: -
From what I have been thought for PSLE preparation, I am definite that the only time the fullstop is inside the quotation marks is when you are quoting a full sentence (or 2 or more sentences). For words and phrases (or incomplete sentences), the fullstop should be outside the quotation marks.
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bookwormkids:
Hi bookwormkids :hi5: ,
Hi I can understand your agony and :frustrated:AgonyMum:
Very grateful for the responses from all parents and educators.However,after reading through all the mail,I realised that there is no concensus about this issue.I have looked through quite a number of assessment books and all their supposed \"model answers\" are somewhat different.
Is it possible to approach MOE for clarification?How do I go about doing this?Would really appreciate some advice.
Thanks!
I'd attended my P3 kid's parent workshop somewhere early in this year. This topic was covered under \"common errors\" made by students. See below:
1) Give a sentence
E.g.
Q) Which sentence in the passage tells you that John is happy?
A1 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\". (This is correct.)
or
A2 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\" tell us so. (This is correct too.)
> Copy word for word.
> Do not leave out any word or punctuation.
> Do not put a comma after \"is\".
For A1, The main sentence must end with a full-stop to complete it (as in A2) (Hope my layman term is clear. :oops: )
For your info, we were told by the HOD English that:
1. All sentence quoting, students have to use double quote, \"....\"
2. All phrases quoting, students have to use single quote, '....'
I really have to salute to all the kids having to remember all these!!! :yikes: :faint: :faint:
No need to go to MOE to clarify lah, just email to the HOD English for their marking scheme will do, just my humble opinion.
Hope my post doesn't offend any expert here...
Thanks for the sharing; i really benefit from reading your post! :celebrate:
:scratchhead: How are our kids gonna remember so much \"rules\" in EL? But I must :salute: your kids' school for giving a workshop on this area; guess I must \"highlight\" & \"feedback\" to my DD1's EL HOD too! :evil: -
Champion:
Hi bookwormkids :hi5: ,
Hi I can understand your agony and :frustrated:bookwormkids:
[quote=\"AgonyMum\"]Very grateful for the responses from all parents and educators.However,after reading through all the mail,I realised that there is no concensus about this issue.I have looked through quite a number of assessment books and all their supposed \"model answers\" are somewhat different.
Is it possible to approach MOE for clarification?How do I go about doing this?Would really appreciate some advice.
Thanks!
I'd attended my P3 kid's parent workshop somewhere early in this year. This topic was covered under \"common errors\" made by students. See below:
1) Give a sentence
E.g.
Q) Which sentence in the passage tells you that John is happy?
A1 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\". (This is correct.)
or
A2 The sentence is \"He feels contented.\" tell us so. (This is correct too.)
> Copy word for word.
> Do not leave out any word or punctuation.
> Do not put a comma after \"is\".
For A1, The main sentence must end with a full-stop to complete it (as in A2) (Hope my layman term is clear. :oops: )
For your info, we were told by the HOD English that:
1. All sentence quoting, students have to use double quote, \"....\"
2. All phrases quoting, students have to use single quote, '....'
I really have to salute to all the kids having to remember all these!!! :yikes: :faint: :faint:
No need to go to MOE to clarify lah, just email to the HOD English for their marking scheme will do, just my humble opinion.
Hope my post doesn't offend any expert here...
Thanks for the sharing; i really benefit from reading your post! :celebrate:
:scratchhead: How are our kids gonna remember so much \"rules\" in EL? But I must :salute: your kids' school for giving a workshop on this area; guess I must \"highlight\" & \"feedback\" to my DD1's EL HOD too! :evil:[/quote]From what I know, double quotes ( \"...\" ) is accepted for all words, phrases and sentence quoting. Probably safer to make it standard to avoid confusion. -
ksi:
Well said.Regarding clarifying with MOE, if every school teaches and marks differently, this would be a question beyond HOD as they cannot even standardize among themselves. To me, this is only a convention, it does not stop us from understanding the intent of the sentence so there is no real importance in terms of knowledge, the only real importance is how PSLE marks it to avoid the loss of points, that's all.
It should be remembered that:-
1. HOD appointment is a managerial appointment, not necessarily a subject-expertise appointment, isn't it?;
2. The English Language Syllabus for the PSLE states that students are required to \"write effectively in internationally acceptable English\". Thus, there is implied flexibility to follow British or American style punctuation. Also, there are differing interpretations, particularly within American style. The key is consistency;
3. Punctuation is often a matter of style, not prescriptive rule;
4. Related to 3., the Syllabus is not prescriptive at the micro-level but is more geared towards aims and objectives.
Readers can view the English Language Syllabus at:
http://www.moe.edu.sg/education/syllabuses/english-language-and-literature/files/english-primary-secondary-express-normal-academic.pdf
http://www.seab.gov.sg/psle/2011_PSLE_Subject_Info/0001_2011.pdf
There must be official guidelines issued to PSLE markers. However, I suspect that these are not made available in the public domain - rather like schools not handing back compositions from assessments. I draw my own conclusions, but will keep them to myself.
If anyone cares to approach MOE and obtain authoritative statement, please post it here for parents (and at least some teachers?) to see.
Anyway, this is my last posting on this particular matter.
Rgds
R
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