SBS Transit, SMRT submit applications for fare adjustment

[Sun_2010]

raynreg:

But they are asking citizens for ideas, suggestions in areas of education, top brass salaries, sports :razz:

Isn't that supposed to be good?

Asking for ideas isn't the same as asking for the solution

If one can contribute meaningfully great.
It's optional, isn't it?

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

How many petrol stations/petrol companies are there in SG? Only 1?

But there were only 1 provider for each route on MRT.

And how different are their prices, may I ask? The point of that illustration was to smurf's contention that stagnant service standards do not warrant a fare hike, and I was merely showing that inflation plays a role in fares, and not using that analogy to talk about competition. In essence, there is a monopoly, as I can only use petrol, not solar energy or water, for instance.

With regards to competition..

You never seen petrol price wars in SG b4?

strange.. I seems to have see a few times.. even reported on MSM b4.. even thou I don't drive..

Ok, since you're not talking abt competition.. take it that I never mentioned..

[smurf]

3Boys:

smurf,
I really have to wonder where you are getting your information from. If I want to travel from London to Cardiff, do I have train company A or B to choose from? From Paris to Lyon? From Rome to Pisa? If you are in the London or Paris underground, do you get to choose company A or company B?

Aren't there Polish plumbers and farm workers in Germany? Slovenian sales staff in Italy? Pakistani doctors in UK? Where on earth are there not cheaper foreign labourers competing for jobs at cheaper salaries? Check out unemployment rates in Europe and see if their system is really better.

I lived in Europe for 3 years, I know how their train function. Although that was when I was still in early 20s.
I dunno how is thing now in Europe. But all I know is that, even if u dun ge t to choose the train company, you still have the choice of buying a low cost car. Do you know that you can buy a mazeranti (dunk how to spell, and dun want to search) in australia (if I remember correctly) for just over s$100k? How much can $100k get you now?

I didn't say Europe system is better. I wasn't even comparing! And certainly dun want to debate on this issue. But the thing is, you can't do without transport. You can choose to eat simple food or go high class restaurant, but you can't go without transport. It has to be affordable. And it's not just affordable for just one or two days! The increase may be just 2.8 percent more, but in long run, it's gonna add up.

[3Boys]

limlim:

3Boys:

[quote=\"limlim\"]
How many petrol stations/petrol companies are there in SG? Only 1?

But there were only 1 provider for each route on MRT.

And how different are their prices, may I ask? The point of that illustration was to smurf's contention that stagnant service standards do not warrant a fare hike, and I was merely showing that inflation plays a role in fares, and not using that analogy to talk about competition. In essence, there is a monopoly, as I can only use petrol, not solar energy or water, for instance.

With regards to competition..

You never seen petrol price wars in SG b4?

strange.. I seems to have see a few times.. even reported on MSM b4.. even thou I don't drive..

Ok, since you're not talking abt competition.. take it that I never mentioned..[/quote]limlim,
sorry to be pedantic, but just so that we are clear, the illustration is to address smurf's contention about stagnant service standards and fare increase. If anything, the fact that DESPITE competition, petrol prices are rising, food prices are rising, is CLEARLY supportive of the notion that competition IS NOT everything. It does not guarantee that prices will fall, it does not guarantee service standards will rise. There are factors external that play much larger than whether there is competition or not. Energy and commodity prices, cost of funds, as examples.

[3Boys]

smurf:

I didn't say Europe system is better. I wasn't even comparing! And certainly dun want to debate on this issue. But the thing is, you can't do without transport. You can choose to eat simple food or go high class restaurant, but you can't go without transport. It has to be affordable. And it's not just affordable for just one or two days! The increase may be just 2.8 percent more, but in long run, it's gonna add up.

Well actually, when you brought up Europe, you did in fact imply Europe was better because they did not 'artificially' depress wages and you had a 'choice' of which train companies to use on any one route. That is clearly not the case, is it?

Now finally, someone mentions affordability, which is really the main issue here, as opposed to the nonsensical smokescreen around profits.

Yes, I agree, transport costs need to be affordable, and those that cannot afford it need to be helped in some way to do so. THIS, I definitely agree.

Now someone, tell me how UNAFFORDABLE SMRT rides are for the 'Typical' Singaporean family. I have an answer, and you may be surprised how I feel about this.

[smurf]

3Boys:

limlim:

How many petrol stations/petrol companies are there in SG? Only 1?

But there were only 1 provider for each route on MRT.

And how different are their prices, may I ask? The point of that illustration was to smurf's contention that stagnant service standards do not warrant a fare hike, and I was merely showing that inflation plays a role in fares, and not using that analogy to talk about competition. In essence, there is a monopoly, as I can only use petrol, not solar energy or water, for instance.

Actually 3boys,

I do agreed with u about the inflation thingy u know. But, I need to add that it has to be in sync with the salary increment. But as you said, that's a separate issue.

[smurf]

3Boys:

smurf,

Aren't there Polish plumbers and farm workers in Germany? Slovenian sales staff in Italy? Pakistani doctors in UK? Where on earth are there not cheaper foreign labourers competing for jobs at cheaper salaries? Check out unemployment rates in Europe and see if their system is really better.

Yes to what you said. BUT, how many percent? Compared to what you have locally???

I hope u r not living in ivory tower. And I dun think you are. If u r, then sadly, you dun seem to understand the woe that people are having.

Go to any restaurant, what are the chances you see a prc assistant, go to department shops, see how many foreign talents sales gals or men?? Do you see that very often in Europe?? Maybe u some crowded places? But what are the chances? Higher or lower??

[smurf]

3boys,


Think I mentioned this before, I not very good in words, especially engrish, in fact, I flanck (dunno how to spell) English paper.

so affordable may not be the right word, but if u take the public transport you will know what I meant.

[Chenonceau]

Actually, whatever the position ('cos I am still on the fence and a bit blur) I think it is wonderful to air these views and that PAP engages WP on this publicly (and vice versa) so that ignorant people like me can develop a deeper understanding and be able to decide on a position eventually.


I very much enjoyed Josephine Teo’s article on this topic in today’s Straits Times. If we don’t talk this through, there will always be a section of the populace who might suspect foul play etc… Good to air this linen, even if it is clean. Then everyone can see it is clean.

I’m still watching and learning.

[smurf]

Just now in the afternoon, I was trying to take a bus, but the bus arrived only after 20 mins of waiting. Compared to other waiting for 30 mins, this one is short lah. I was frustrated because I was late.


Maybe you may say, fare increment has nothing to do with service, but tell me, if someone provide bad service to you, shove the bill to your throat and tell you, no matter what, you have to swallow this, no matter what. you had no choice, because only one provider around.