Living with Depression
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Hi Funz, just wanna say I sympathize with your husband.
OK I'm just going to write from my gut.....
- There could be a case of the man refusing to ask you, the wife, for solace. I say this because often we men are expected to be pillars of emotional solidity, but in today's world I think men need support from time to time; except that society is still so \"sexist\" in this issue, that for a man to \"need support\" is considered unmanly. So men continue to refuse help. And women take it for granted, and get pissed by the consequences, which can make things worse. Speculating here.
- But I think that to approach this directly is not helpful. Thus, neither will going to a doctor, taking drugs, reading self-help books, talking about it directly, help. I think what your husband needs is a gradual reversal. Instead of trying to solve the problem with a shotgun solution (eg. swallow pill, get happiness), what he may need is a sense that things are getting better, slowly. I'm not sure if this makes sense.
- Hunch: answer this, how often does your husband hear the phrase, \"thank you\"? Might be an odd question, but consider it. At work and at home.
- Regarding disatisfaction over material wealth..... I am honestly a bit miffed by you two since you are both obviously richer than me.
You rich people are never satisfied!...... haha, sorry I'm just kidding. 
But you get my point.
Anyway, I was wondering if you could try to pinpoint exactly where the envy stems from. It may not be a general disatisfaction, but could come from a specific source. Does your husband have a particularly showoffy kind of friend somewhere?
Does he get dragged to places and events where others throw money while he's made to feel inadequate? Maybe because of work? What does he do?
You should already know that because we spend so much time at work, and because work is the main source of material wealth, it has a massive impact on people's moods.
In fact, does his depression cycle match any particular cycle at work? Eg. is he getting depressed because he's involved in a particularly difficult project phase? And this repeats every year or two? Does it affect his mood directly?
- One thing you haven't mentioned much is his relationship with the kids. How is it like? -
Hi Sashimi,
If I have not mistaken or misread what you are trying to put across, yes, I do agree that in our society, men do have a heavy burden of having to fulfill the role of the one to provide for the family and typically be the 'strong' one. For women to suffer from depression, oh well, part and parcel but for men to suffer from depression, he must be weak. Such is the perception I guess.
I know there is no miracle pill or overnite solution. It is a work in progress thing and there will be times when it will be like taking 1 step forward only to slide 2 steps back. And frankly speaking, I would prefer a drug free solution even if it takes a longer time. DH is not the first person going thru depression whom I have to give support to but him being my other half just makes it that much harder I guess.
As for expressing our gratitudes, well, frankly, I dun exactly go around saying thank you to every thing. But for things like if he makes the effort to pick the kids up if he knows that I have loads of work to clear I do tell him I appreciate the consideration. My 2 kiddos are forever saying thank you to all of us, tankyu mummy for bringing us for a walk, tankyu kakak for preparing our dinner, tankyu daddy for paying for the groceries.... hahah. I will do things like arrange for the kids to be with my parents and booking a couple's spa for ourselves just to unwind whenever I see that he is very stressed, little things like that to show that he matters and I know even though he might not exactly voice certain things out. I guess the question I need to answer is am I doing enuf. Hmm.. that I gotta figure out. Not sure yet.
Regarding material wealth..... no comments. hahah.
There are a fair mix of wealth or status of the people whom he mixes around with. If you get what I mean. There are those who are really big shots in the industry and there are those who are like us, average working people. Some older some younger some more successful some less so then him. The thing I have noticed about DH is he will make some frens but after some time, he will start finding fault with the person and then start distancing himself from them. He does that about my frens as well. Even my family and his own family.
As for cycle, it use to be about once a year. There was a period when it was like twice a year. Things seem to be in control over the past 2 yrs. But this year, he had a minor one at the beginning of the year and this time, a more serious round of depression. I guess like wat you said, for a guy, work is a huge part of their lives. So I can only pinpoint to that as the main cause of his depression. He is in sales. Though it is a managerial position, at the end of the day, sales is sales, it is a numbers game. And it is unforgiving and unappreciative. Everything is zerorised at the end of every qtr and you start all over again. Good and bad, if you had a bad qtr, you can try to redeem yourself this time round, if you had a good qtr, no one remembers, all they are looking at is what you can do this qtr. I know that kind of stress intimately, cos DH and I got to know each other when we were colleagues competing with each other. (hah, big surprise there.)
DH is like most typical dads. I will say that many Dads who are on this forum are atypical (just my observation). He loves them and they of course love him unconditionally. But his involvement with them is limited to wrestling with them for that 15mins or so each evening. Disciplining when necessary and basically being present when mummy insists on it. He spoils them rotten with material stuff. The kids know they will not get toys out of me if it is not their birthdays or children's day or x'mas but with daddy, they will be coming home with a toy everytime we go to the mall.
I know that sometimes a spouse may unknowingly add stress to their partner. I may be guilty of that too. A girlfren told me last week over lunch. \"Can you stop handling everything and anything in the household and let him handle some?\" I thought it was going to be one of those your DH needs to snap out of it or stop being so self centre lecture. But instead she went on, \"With you being so independant and settling everything at home and with the kids, if I am your husband, I will feel damn useless or redundant. Play the damn damsel in distress once in a while will you, give your husband a chance to come to your rescue, it will do his ego and self esteem a world of good.\" I am still wrapping my head around that piece of advise. I am wondering if it will really make him feel better or will it add to his stress. -
Hmmmmm....... your husband seems strangely... normal. I mean, nothing especially unusual. I can sympathize with the sales part. I've done that before (and not because I chose to) and I hated it. But that's me.
Well, sales people in certain industries are probably having a tough time since the economy came crashing down. Do you think it could be this, so simple?
Heck, even though my current job doesn't involve sales, I worry about the sales health at my wife's company.
Does your husband worry about you in any way? For example, I worry a lot about my wife; I often feel that I'm financially unsuccessful and that translates to I've let her SAHM dreams down (if any left). I 'joke' to myself that I'm an atypical father, and therefore atypically poor. She says she doesn't blame me, but I can't accept it.
But if I want material wealth, it's got nothing to do with comparing with friends. I do wish I had some more material wealth, the kind lots of others show off; but I am dead sure it's got nothing to do with ego; i just want it for my family. It sometimes irks me that I can't afford this or that; but beyond that, we are not unhappy.
Why would your husband make such impulse buys? Is it to satisfy himself? (I suspect not? Is he happy with those purchases?), or to satisfy family? Surely not because he's competing with his friends right?
Let's try another tack: is your husband fed up because he lacks time for family? 15 mins an evening wrestling..... does he seem happy when he's with the kids? When he buys them toys and your children thank him, does he seem very happy?
I sometimes surprise my daughter with a little gift, say a kinderjoy. It costs me only $1.60, but her smile is worth a million dollars.
For me - I constantly feel I don't have enough time for family. I miss them a lot when I'm at work. I feel better these days cos I'm reasonably happy with my work. but 2 years ago I hated my work (business problems), and try as hard as I did, I eventually succumbed and brought the stress home. I always warn myself and DW that no matter how bad work is, never never never bring the stress home. The last people you should vent work frustration on is family. (like the \"spillover\" you mentioned).
This is one of the primary reasons why I left my previous job, and strategically found myself one which I felt would not result in this.
OK, your husband.... could it be that - partly cos I see so far a good husband and father - he feels guilty and frustrated because he lacks time with family? He could also be the sort who wants to achieve 1001 things every 24 hours. So he jogs, he has thousands of hobbies, he wants to own stuff, he wants to please family.
He knows he lacks time, and yet he wants to do all these things. He feels guilty if he spends too much time/money on one thing, and not the other. He attempts to compensate, but I think maybe it's futile, cos 24 hours only has 24 hours. One clue there - those books he never finishes.
Does your husband bring work home,btw?
Eg. whenever I think about the fact that I sit with my colleagues for 8 hours a day and I spend only 2 hours a day with my DD, I feel bad as hell. Some days, we trade more words in conversation with colleagues than with one's own family members. Stupid, but true.
Also, compensation can take the form of impulse buys, esp. \"gifts\" for oneself. I do this too. Sometimes, I would just buy something for myself. And it's often pretty expensive (by my standards anyway!!). I sometimes even feel guilty about it - eg. the money could have been spent on something for family; I would think, \"the money is X% of DD's monthly school fees, how could I have spent so \"irresponsibily\"??\"
But... the fact is, the other part of my heart is telling me - \"you deserve it man\". So there is this struggle between duty to family and duty to self, so to speak.
A perception of a lack of time to do everything can also translate into a sense that one has \"no choice\" - so many things to do, all must do, cannot not do - no choice. And yet, if he doesn't \"complete\" them, it just becomes a vicious cycle.
Could it be that your husband needs to \"complete\" something, rather than pick up more hobbies? He needs to be able to tell himself that he has completed something.
He also sounds like someone heavily burdened by obligation. Obligation = dutifulness, it's a good thing. But like kindness, the man who has good intentions needs the power and time to execute those intentions. A man who has good cause, but no power, is a pretty stressed-out man. He can feel helpless because he can't achieve what he knows should be done, and then the obligation changes into burden, of not having the power to do what he wants, no matter how justified the intentions. It creates a sense of injustice, and worse, a feeling of failure towards family and self. If this goes into work, then also, the urge to change jobs (but the cycle repeating, then it won't be the last change).
Please let me know for what I've written abve - what makes sense, and what doesn't apply. A lot of it is speculation on my part after all. I'll try to suggest some solutions then.
take care! -
What Sashimi quoted here applied exactly to my DH. I'm not SAHM but FTWM. He is still a worry freak!
He is also the \"lack of time\" kind of man. Want to do 1001 thing in 1 day leaving only 5-6hours to sleep and worst sometime can't get into sleep because he has something unfinished that he's keep thinking about. He would at times woke up in the night just to complete it!!
I tried talking to him but it is so hard to stop him to behave this way as it's been inbuilt since young... I even pursuaded him to see phycologist but he refuses.
Living in depression is not a joke and my hearts go out to you Funz. Helpless is the only way to describe us as a wife of a depression man.
Think positive, take care! -
sashimi:
Hmmmmm....... your husband seems strangely... normal. I mean, nothing especially unusual. I can sympathize with the sales part. I've done that before (and not because I chose to) and I hated it. But that's me.
Oh damn! I was hoping that he is some alien and that will explain why he behaves as such. Hahah. Yah, he is normal like everyone else. Just that he has problems resolving certain feelings and letting some stuff go.
Well, sales people in certain industries are probably having a tough time since the economy came crashing down. Do you think it could be this, so simple?
Nah, this has been going on for as long as I have known him. Even during boom time, he has his periods of dark moods and all.
Heck, even though my current job doesn't involve sales, I worry about the sales health at my wife's company.
Does your husband worry about you in any way? For example, I worry a lot about my wife; I often feel that I'm financially unsuccessful and that translates to I've let her SAHM dreams down (if any left). I 'joke' to myself that I'm an atypical father, and therefore atypically poor. She says she doesn't blame me, but I can't accept it.
I dun think he worries about me. I do not wish to be a SAHM. I dun even want to be a tai tai. I want to work. My work is an integral part of me. Since marriage, he has not given me a single cent, and I have not needed nor expected him to give me any money. What we have however is a joint a/c that we contribute to for major household expenses. Big ticket items like family vacations, repairs and renos, etc. And we each put in some money into our children's a/cs. The rest of what we earn, we keep for ourselves. Worry about me like how you worry about your wife, I doubt. But I suspect that he feels a need to earn more then me. And he does. Problem is he is unable to get out of what he is doing because he has to maintain that level of earnings. Viscious cycle again. Round and round we go.
But if I want material wealth, it's got nothing to do with comparing with friends. I do wish I had some more material wealth, the kind lots of others show off; but I am dead sure it's got nothing to do with ego; i just want it for my family. It sometimes irks me that I can't afford this or that; but beyond that, we are not unhappy.
His need for material wealth is not to show off but to him it is an affirmation that he has made it in life. I know, screwed view but that is how he measure his own self worth. By the kind of car he drives, the house that he lives in, the memberships that he has.
Why would your husband make such impulse buys? Is it to satisfy himself? (I suspect not? Is he happy with those purchases?), or to satisfy family? Surely not because he's competing with his friends right?
Tell me if any of these buys strike you as something for the family. 10K sound system for his car, a BMW Cabrio 335 when I was 6mths pregnant, handphones, laptops, watches.
Let's try another tack: is your husband fed up because he lacks time for family? 15 mins an evening wrestling..... does he seem happy when he's with the kids? When he buys them toys and your children thank him, does he seem very happy?
He is definitely happy with the kids. I know that they are important to him and he loves them to bits. But everything else that he needs to do comes first. Then the kids. Anyways, this has been a sore point in our relationship all these time. Things have improved but there is still much room for improvement.
I sometimes surprise my daughter with a little gift, say a kinderjoy. It costs me only $1.60, but her smile is worth a million dollars.
For me - I constantly feel I don't have enough time for family. I miss them a lot when I'm at work. I feel better these days cos I'm reasonably happy with my work. but 2 years ago I hated my work (business problems), and try as hard as I did, I eventually succumbed and brought the stress home. I always warn myself and DW that no matter how bad work is, never never never bring the stress home. The last people you should vent work frustration on is family. (like the \"spillover\" you mentioned).
He misses us terribly whenever he is overseas. He will call or msg me a few times. And ironically, we talk to each other more when he is overseas then when he is back home. When he is in Singapore, I dun get a single call from him in during work and he will be in the study from the moment he comes home till bedtime, with the exception of that 15mins with the kids.
This is one of the primary reasons why I left my previous job, and strategically found myself one which I felt would not result in this.
OK, your husband.... could it be that - partly cos I see so far a good husband and father - he feels guilty and frustrated because he lacks time with family? He could also be the sort who wants to achieve 1001 things every 24 hours. So he jogs, he has thousands of hobbies, he wants to own stuff, he wants to please family.
He knows he lacks time, and yet he wants to do all these things. He feels guilty if he spends too much time/money on one thing, and not the other. He attempts to compensate, but I think maybe it's futile, cos 24 hours only has 24 hours. One clue there - those books he never finishes.
That to a certain extent describe how he is. Who doesn't want the cake and eat it too. His problem is this inability to derive a balance.
Umm.. about the books, not that he finds he has no time to finish but whenever he attempts to read, he ends up snoring. He is constantly amazed by how I can finish a novel in 3 days or sit and read for hours. His toilet companion is his PSP or iphone.
Does your husband bring work home,btw?
Yes, and so do I. Difference is he thinks all of us can wait for him to finish his work first whereas, I feel that my work can wait till I am finished with my family.
Eg. whenever I think about the fact that I sit with my colleagues for 8 hours a day and I spend only 2 hours a day with my DD, I feel bad as hell. Some days, we trade more words in conversation with colleagues than with one's own family members. Stupid, but true.
So true so true. And so him. I often ask him, why does he have a smiling face and become so sociable and chatty when with colleagues and frens but with his family, it is usually silence and black face. His answer is, he has to put on a mask the entire day oredi can't he be himself at home. I told him then I'd rather be your fren then your family.
Also, compensation can take the form of impulse buys, esp. \"gifts\" for oneself. I do this too. Sometimes, I would just buy something for myself. And it's often pretty expensive (by my standards anyway!!). I sometimes even feel guilty about it - eg. the money could have been spent on something for family; I would think, \"the money is X% of DD's monthly school fees, how could I have spent so \"irresponsibily\"??\"
yah, he goes thru this struggle and you know what makes it worse. He will eg, want a watch that costs say $15K, but feel that it is a bit too ex. So he looks around for something similar but cheaper, maybe something $3 or 4K and he buys that. But ultimately, he will still get the $15K watch cos that is the one that he really wants. He knows his weakness which is why he is pumping in a fair bit of money into the joint a/c and kids' a/c. He says that if it remains in his a/c, he will spend it in no time.
But... the fact is, the other part of my heart is telling me - \"you deserve it man\". So there is this struggle between duty to family and duty to self, so to speak.
In our family, he is the one who goes for retail therapy. Haha. I on the other hand hate shopping.
A perception of a lack of time to do everything can also translate into a sense that one has \"no choice\" - so many things to do, all must do, cannot not do - no choice. And yet, if he doesn't \"complete\" them, it just becomes a vicious cycle.
You said it man. But the things that he usually end up not doing due to his perceived lack of time or no choice are things with his family, like dinner, kids' first cinema experience, etc. Sad but true, it is a treat for the kids if daddy joins us for dinner on a weekday.
Could it be that your husband needs to \"complete\" something, rather than pick up more hobbies? He needs to be able to tell himself that he has completed something.
He also sounds like someone heavily burdened by obligation. Obligation = dutifulness, it's a good thing. But like kindness, the man who has good intentions needs the power and time to execute those intentions. A man who has good cause, but no power, is a pretty stressed-out man. He can feel helpless because he can't achieve what he knows should be done, and then the obligation changes into burden, of not having the power to do what he wants, no matter how justified the intentions. It creates a sense of injustice, and worse, a feeling of failure towards family and self. If this goes into work, then also, the urge to change jobs (but the cycle repeating, then it won't be the last change).
Unfortunately, I do not see it as such. Yes, he is heavily burdened by obligation but I feel not to his family. To his work. He works in an MNC. He is supposedly in charge of certain sectors. But there is corporate directions and there is local direction. Corporate direction will always override local directions even if it may not totally fit the local culture or market. The company must always consider the big picture which employees usually are not privy to. So he gets totally frustrated cos he feel that he is powerless and his views not taken into consideration which leads to all the unhappiness & feeling of being unappreciated,etc. I keep telling him he takes his job too personally and he needs to learn to understand that the management rejecting his proposals does not equate to a rejection of him per se.
Please let me know for what I've written abve - what makes sense, and what doesn't apply. A lot of it is speculation on my part after all. I'll try to suggest some solutions then.
I am glad to have someone to speculate and also coming from a man's point of view it may give me a better insight as to what DH might be going thru. Sometimes I find it very hard to talk to DH. He is a person who believes in absolutes. No such thing as agreeing to disagree and having a differing view. It is either you are with me or against me kinda mentality. And whenever he suggests something, if I so much as show hesitation in agreeing, it means I am not supportive or as he puts it always a wet blanket. And then he clams up and says he cannot talk to me. Especially so when he is going thru his depression. -
Hi Funz, sorry for the long absence, been very busy. But I’ve been thinking about your situation and actually I’ve come to a conclusion.
PLEASE bear in mind once again that I consider all this to be speculation, guesses and "wild" suggestions. I want to help, but I feel it is awkward and arrogant on my part to assume this "psychiatrist"/"counsellor" stance. So, pls excuse me…
Your husband is unhappy with work, which is something he cannot expect family to resolve for him. Thus, he has to settle it himself.
To counter the unhappiness, he tries to find solace in family. He also tries to find time for himself. Neither really works because work hangs over his head all the time, and he never truly has as much time for family/self as he wishes he had. In fact, I daresay that if he even attempts to find extra time for himself/family, he probably feels guilty about having "abandoned" work.
To counter that, he seeks relief in retail therapy. Retail therapy involves very little time in the act of buying, but a lot of time in the mind. Thinking about the thing to buy, thinking about the cost, thinking about justifying the purchase, and later, even thinking about the guilt after buying (if any).
If I am not wrong, he will find no solace in any of these.
I have one suggestion to offer. I suspect that one source of his misery is simply the guilt from retail therapy. You’ve mentioned this enough times to make me think this way. Retail therapy is very effective on singles, but not on family men. Almost all family men I converse with share the same sentiments on retail therapy.
So, I suggest you do a little reverse psychology.
I suggest that your family show support and interest in his "investments". Put it this way - he WILL buy it anyway, even if you protest/disagree (which makes him feel worse). There are worse things to spend on, eg. gambling.
If he feels good about the retail therapy, it may open up the way to better moods.
Assuming you can’t do anything about his work, nor the amount of time he can spend for himself, then I suggest that you just show him support when he buys something. Don’t fret/fuss over it.
This, of course, assumes that he does not go overboard and goes broke to the detriment of family. I assume you guys are sensible on this.
I am an advocate of two philosophies:
1) "Money DOES buy happiness. (Only the rich will disagree.)"
2) "Money only has value when it is well spent."
There are many many people out there who have both lousy jobs AND lousy pay. IMHO, to reach happiness, you either have to have a great job or a great pay, if not both. I always advise people to bear with their lousy jobs if the pay is great; if the pay isn’t, change job immediately. I can’t help you or your husband with his job; hence my suggestion to you is to support the way he spends his hard-earned money. So to speak. For what’s it worth… you may actually be helping him to buy (his) happiness. I know this probably sounds very superficial to some people, but in this superficial, materialistic world, it has more truth than most dare to admit. -
sashimi:
I have a simpler view to what your DH is going through. He felt that he had lost control at work and seeks to re-assure himself (ego?) through other activities such as retail therapy. Through purchases and especially expensive ones, he perhaps felt a sense of \"achievement\" for overcoming odds and finally making the purchases.
Your husband is unhappy with work, which is something he cannot expect family to resolve for him. Thus, he has to settle it himself.
...
To counter that, he seeks relief in retail therapy.
I have one suggestion to offer. I suspect that one source of his misery is simply the guilt from retail therapy.
...
Retail therapy is very effective on singles, but not on family men. Almost all family men I converse with share the same sentiments on retail therapy.
My biggest ego purchase was bodykits, hifi and performance modifications for my car. That total expenditure came to $10+ k and it felt soooo good. So I can appreciate how your DH felt. :celebrate: My DW didnt make a big fuss then because that ego \"trip\" came becoz of a windfall that I had. To some, maybe that feeling is extremely addictive.
Fortunately, I normally dont have such ego urges and can satisfy myself with simpler CD or gadget purchases. :oops: Maybe you could discuss with your DH if my explanation makes some sense to him. If so, then can encourage him with smaller purchases not to break the bank but still feel good. -
No need to apologise at all Sashimi.
You are right on the dot when you say that he is unhappy with his work. I think that is about the only thing that is really bothering him. He will constantly tell me that he is appreciative of me and truly blessed to have me as his wife and our two kids. So from all these, I gather we are not the key source of problem for him. But again like you mention earlier and I also definitely do understand, work plays a big part in a man’s life so this unhappiness with his work seems to obliterate most other things worth celebrating.
As for his purchases. Admittedly, I was once unhappy about his spending when he has debts to clear. But I have since overcome that. No sense in 2 persons being unhappy since however unhappy I am, he will still buy what he wants to buy and then derive no pleasure from his purchase cos I am unhappy. So these days, I am neutral while he finds short term joy. Haha.
Help him spend find happiness? I just did that in May. First I unintentionally enticed him while looking for something for myself. Then I supported him since he was interested and finally, I ‘pushed’ him into making the purchase when he had doubts. Hahah. Evil me. But no regrets. It is a purchase that the whole family can enjoy. That to me is money well spent and happiness well earned.
Thank you guys for your inputs. Reading some of your suggestions got me thinking and did help me manage some of my frustrations with DH. I know full well that ultimately, the only person who can help him is himself. I cannot solve his problems for him but I will be there to support him. -
Insider, hope your niece and brother in law will be provide your sis with the support she needs to get through this period.
DH’s situation is not as bad. He is not suicidal but this on-going cycle can be draining.
My sis went through a rough period quite a few years back as well. She thought she was going blind (she had retina detachment) and she was suffering from a host of stress related health issues. Like DH, she suffers from anxiety attacks. She was on blood thinners and had to see a heart specialist and she was only in her mid 30s then. My BIL was travelling a lot so she was alone most of the time. I accompanied her to most of her checkups and made the effort to spend time with her. Eventually, I told her to quit her job and come work with me. And since then, things improved for her. She did mention a few times that my intervention then was really timely, she would have been lost if I had not ‘meddled’.
I read your other post about the past life stuff. Just a word of caution, such things can be a double edged sword. If your sister has the right frame of mind, it may help but if not, it may have a negative impact cos we have no idea what is going to come out of the session. JMHO. -
Hi insider,
Life is difficult for a lot of people…whether those rich or poor, with gifted kids or average kids.
Fortunately, you could help your sis’ family through your niece. Your strength, faith and wisdom will see her through this difficult time. Take care.
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