Review Underway of the Educational System

[caroline3sg]

Chenonceau:

Actually... many parents who send for tuition now, aren't looking for A. We wanted a Pass. That was my son's case for Chinese.

I agree with you that many Teachers have left for the reasons you stated, but I tend to be somewhat more optimistic than you. MOE refused to admit to a problem before. Now it has... and there is a beginning of a solution.

Also, like I said before, it is a question of degree. There will always be space for tuition, but with every unit of improvement demand for tuition goes down. As demand goes down, prices go down. As prices go down, salaries get squeezed. It really is about economics.

That MOE cannot at all improve, not even one unit, is not a truth written in stone. But well... that's just my opinion.

If our child is borderline, we want a pass. If our child has attained a B, we want an A. It is at different stages.

For decades, MOE has not changed much if we were to seriously pinpoint details one by one. Example, class size from 40 to 30 (after how many yrs? Back to 40 at P3). Even now, they are into character building. Take how long to implement? They didn't mention about volume of homework. Many topics previously taught at sec level are brought down to primary.

[Chenonceau]

caroline3sg:

Chenonceau:

Actually... many parents who send for tuition now, aren't looking for A. We wanted a Pass. That was my son's case for Chinese.

I agree with you that many Teachers have left for the reasons you stated, but I tend to be somewhat more optimistic than you. MOE refused to admit to a problem before. Now it has... and there is a beginning of a solution.

Also, like I said before, it is a question of degree. There will always be space for tuition, but with every unit of improvement demand for tuition goes down. As demand goes down, prices go down. As prices go down, salaries get squeezed. It really is about economics.

That MOE cannot at all improve, not even one unit, is not a truth written in stone. But well... that's just my opinion.

If our child is borderline, we want a pass. If our child has attained a B, we want an A. It is at different stages.

For decades, MOE has not changed much if we were to seriously pinpoint details one by one. Example, class size from 40 to 30 (after how many yrs? Back to 40 at P3). Even now, they are into character building. Take how long to implement? They didn't mention about volume of homework. Many topics previously taught at sec level are brought down to primary.

I know we're all frustrated. I am/was too. That was why people wrote in and I started a petition. But there is a start. I'm not keen to simply write off the MOE's nascent efforts as completely useless. I have seen many people in organizations (and many organizations) accomplish the impossible.

That the impossible is sometimes within reach was what gave me and my son hope throughout our ordeal with the Chinese language. In days gone past, people didn't think flying was possible. We would NEVER fly as well as the birds. But today, huge planes carrying loads far heavier than any bird can criss-cross the globe... and some fly far longer distances than any bird, without rest.

It's my own character flaw that I'm always hopeful and unable to easily accept that things cannot be done.... never be done... no hope. It also helps that my PhD dissertation was titled \"How do people stay committed to impossible goals and eventually accomplish them?\". I've seen the impossible too many times to easily accept it at face value. If not, for what I learnt there... I could never have helped my son catch up on a 3-year reading level in Chinese in 10 months, whilst being illiterate in Chinese... and having a tutor only for 3 of the 10 months. In 10 months, my son went from Fail to a High B, mostly without tuition (and an unhelpful schoolteacher) and a Mother illiterate in Chinese. We are hopeful for an A soon.

There was also a time when no one thought the Opposition could win a GRC. PAP itself didn't think it possible. But it didn't stop hopeful people from trying.

We can hope. It is unlikely. But we can hope.

But yes... I know and agree that it is very unlikely at present... and MOE hasn't really done anything yet. And we see no results yet. And we are all frustrated and see MOE has a loser. It could well be too that my faith is misplaced... I really dunno, and am not prepared to disagree with you on what is possible or not possible for MOE. So... I suppose you're right then.

[concern2]

Is 有教无类 better, or is 因材施教 better?


The latter seems to be the philosophy adopted in the process of streaming. Seems like what is ideal has its downside because we are dealing with human beings and behavior of the society…

[Oppsgal]

jtoh:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"jtoh\"]
CCA is compulsory, but not sports CCA.

Oh dear! I always make my son skip swimming because he already can swim 40 lengths of the pool without stopping and they keep wanting him to get those metallic medals... bronze and silver and gold things. He would like to do competitive swimming but it is not something his school wins at so, no opportunity.

He skips so that he has time play with his chemistry set... and now he is teaching himself to draw. It's just pottering around the house but sometimes kids just wanna have time to do what they wanna do. He's a nerd. I have to enforce mandatory daily jogging because his father is worried about Army Days.

I didn't know CCA was compulsory!!

I think it is compulsory to join a CCA but I suppose you could join one and not show up! :evil:[/quote]Think will not have CCA points then. got detention for not showing up? What if all the CCA, kid don't like, but is forced to join at least one? Waste of time? could better make use of such time to do better on having teacher teach academic subjects? if cannot even cope with school work, why waste the time on un-enjoyable CCA?

[caroline3sg]

MdmKS:

caroline3sg:

To ans your question, yes. MOE is catering to masses. What is their objective? Ensure all have education (primary education is compulsory) and FREE (I am referring to citizens). And what is branded tuition centres' objective? (A/A* results). The disparity is too just great.

The branded tuition centers don't warrant you an A or A*.

I didn't say warrant / guarantee. I just mention their objective / aim.

Look at Tienhsia's achievement postal which list their students getting A/A* in PSLE. Learning Lab, abeit taking in cream of crop, also list their students entering HCI/RI/Nanyang.

I think Mindchamps have some sort of guarantee. Adam Khoo too?

[caroline3sg]

Chenonceau:

I know we're all frustrated. I am/was too. That was why people wrote in and I started a petition. But there is a start. I'm not keen to simply write off the MOE's nascent efforts as completely useless. I have seen many people in organizations (and many organizations) accomplish the impossible.

That the impossible is sometimes within reach was what gave me and my son hope throughout our ordeal with the Chinese language. In days gone past, people didn't think flying was possible. We would NEVER fly as well as the birds. But today, huge planes carrying loads far heavier than any bird can criss-cross the globe... and some fly far longer distances than any bird, without rest.

It's my own character flaw that I'm always hopeful and unable to easily accept that things cannot be done.... never be done... no hope. It also helps that my PhD dissertation was titled \"How do people stay committed to impossible goals and eventually accomplish them?\". I've seen the impossible too many times to easily accept it at face value. If not, for what I learnt there... I could never have helped my son catch up on a 3-year reading level in Chinese in 10 months, whilst being illiterate in Chinese... and having a tutor only for 3 of the 10 months. In 10 months, my son went from Fail to a High B, mostly without tuition (and an unhelpful schoolteacher) and a Mother illiterate in Chinese. We are hopeful for an A soon.

There was also a time when no one thought the Opposition could win a GRC. PAP itself didn't think it possible. But it didn't stop hopeful people from trying.

We can hope. It is unlikely. But we can hope.

But yes... I know and agree that it is very unlikely at present... and MOE hasn't really done anything yet. And we see no results yet. And we are all frustrated and see MOE has a loser. It could well be too that my faith is misplaced... I really dunno, and am not prepared to disagree with you on what is possible or not possible for MOE. So... I suppose you're right then.

It is good that you do not give up easily. And I commend & salute the unwavering efforts you & your son put in for Chinese. If at the end of it, if one does not get the desired result, one can say he/she has put in his/her best effort and have reached thus far. In the process, he/she has learnt a lot too.

Noticeable improvements can be seen if count on ourselves for improvement than to depend on school teacher. This is fact and happens to almost everyone.

However, I would like to comment that in organisations, it is comparatively easier to accomplish the impossible than stat boards. As for PAP, they have slackened that's why WP has taken up 6 seats.

In life, in reality, sometimes we need to know where is its limits.

[jenao]

How hopeful you react to the recent MOE announcement I guess depends on which stage your kid is in. If you kids are 1/2 yrs old, then you are hopeful as you have 10 yrs to see significant changes and given that MOE come up with something like this every year, there should be some changes by the time your kids take their PSLE?


If your kids are almost entering primary school, then you are not so optimistic since the changes are mainly cosmetic, nothing very substantial and you may not see any improvement by the time your kids take psle. And if there are substantial changes later, you also are also weary since your kids will be affected. Case of better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.

And if your kids are in upper primary, then you are not hopeful since core issues like psle tscore, syllabus and materials etc remain the same. It is not just mentality of the parents. If top students need to go for tuition to have better t-score than their peers, then those average students or poor students definitely need tuition just to keep up.

[try]

Just something I read which I found interesting because I never knew that results were moderated to such an extent for the chinese language.


PSLE Chinese according to past MOE statistics which were similar to those in 2009 - 13% scored A*, 69% of students scored A, 11% scored B, 5% scored C. (Info taken from Eduguide magazine 166/08/2010 Volume 4, published by absolutelyparents.com which quoted its source was from MOE)

From what I gleaned from parents whose children had taken PSLE, most students(69%?) who scored Bs and Cs in schools will be able to score As in PSLE. Its a matter of a high A or a low A, which parents will not know, unless you do so comparison with students with the same number of A*/A/B/C.

Seemed that MOE is trying to encourage students by giving As during PSLE through moderating. Not only might this give the wrong impression of a child's chinese ability, parents whose children had been getting Bs or Cs in school may find it hard to select/decide chinese tutors/tuition centers as many can and should have majority of students who scored at least an A in PSLE given that only 18% scored B and below. http://i52.tinypic.com/3166kh0.jpg\">

[Chenonceau]

jenao:

How hopeful you react to the recent MOE announcement I guess depends on which stage your kid is in. If you kids are 1/2 yrs old, then you are hopeful as you have 10 yrs to see significant changes and given that MOE come up with something like this every year, there should be some changes by the time your kids take their PSLE?


If your kids are almost entering primary school, then you are not so optimistic since the changes are mainly cosmetic, nothing very substantial and you may not see any improvement by the time your kids take psle. And if there are substantial changes later, you also are also weary since your kids will be affected. Case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

And if your kids are in upper primary, then you are not hopeful since core issues like psle tscore, syllabus and materials etc remain the same. It is not just mentality of the parents. If top students need to go for tuition to have better t-score than their peers, then those average students or poor students definitely need tuition just to keep up.

:goodpost:

[Chenonceau]

try:

Just something I read which I found interesting because I never knew that results were moderated to such an extent for the chinese language.


PSLE Chinese according to past MOE statistics which were similar to those in 2009 - 13% scored A*, 69% of students scored A, 11% scored B, 5% scored C. (Info taken from Eduguide magazine 166/08/2010 Volume 4, published by absolutelyparents.com which quoted its source was from MOE)

From what I gleaned from parents whose children had taken PSLE, most students(69%?) who scored Bs and Cs in schools will be able to score As in PSLE. Its a matter of a high A or a low A, which parents will not know, unless you do so comparison with students with the same number of A*/A/B/C.

Seemed that MOE is trying to encourage students by giving As during PSLE through moderating. Not only might this give the wrong impression of a child's chinese ability, parents whose children had been getting Bs or Cs in school may find it hard to select/decide chinese tutors/tuition centers as many can and should have majority of students who scored at least an A in PSLE given that only 18% scored B and below. http://i52.tinypic.com/3166kh0.jpg\">

Thank you!! I always suspected the A in PSLE could well be just a front. You can get lotsa As but still score low. So I look past the marks and go straight at comparing Top Essays in Chinese with my son's work. Then, he will end up where he ends up. I wanna see his best effort. If it ain't good enough... then well, so be it. If it is better than good, then good too.

Go back to first principles of education.