PSLE 2009 - Chinese Paper

[Jennifer]

P6boy-dad:

What i can say about the T-Score for Chinese is that, the mean score is VERY high at least 82 and the SD is about 7-8 marks. It means that your child has to score above 82 before he can obtain a T-score of 50 and above. Any marks below the mean score would result in score below 50 for Chinese. I am sure alot of parents dont realise that, thinking that as long as my child score 75 marks would be sufficient. That was why a student who scored 3A* and 1A (chinese) would get a score of 244. The A for Chinese would have given him a T-score of 41 if he scores only 75 marks.

Pls share how you get the numbers in the above computation. Your post makes me depressed

[P6boy-dad]

Jennifer:

P6boy-dad:

What i can say about the T-Score for Chinese is that, the mean score is VERY high at least 82 and the SD is about 7-8 marks. It means that your child has to score above 82 before he can obtain a T-score of 50 and above. Any marks below the mean score would result in score below 50 for Chinese. I am sure alot of parents dont realise that, thinking that as long as my child score 75 marks would be sufficient. That was why a student who scored 3A* and 1A (chinese) would get a score of 244. The A for Chinese would have given him a T-score of 41 if he scores only 75 marks.

Pls share how you get the numbers in the above computation. Your post makes me depressed

Sorry to make you depressed. Actually it is quite easy to derive the mean marks and SD for Chinese. Firstly, around 80% of the candidates scored A & A* almost every year. Therefore, the mean score would never be 75% and below. Secondly, Statistics 101 says that most students (34.1%) would fall between the 1st standard deviation on the left and right (layman) of the mean score. Meaning, adding or subtracting the SD to the mean score would cover the entire 1st SD left and right of the mean score. It also means that, only with a mean of 82-83 marks and a SD of 7-8 for Chinese would likely cover the entire right hand side of the mean score as 80% of the students obtain 75 and above. Every one SD in the T-score terms constitute 10 pts (+ on the left and - on the right). The next SD would be another 10 pts (2nd SD). If our child score 75 marks, the T-score for Chinese would be est. -9 (41) although it is an A grade. Those who score a high A grade of 90 would have scored a T-score of 9 (59). The difference is actually quite great. Even if you scored VERY well for your other 3 subjects, it would likely pull down your T-Score. For example, imagine scoring 70 pts (which is top 2.1% of the cohort) for all three subjects but with a score of 41 in Chinese, it would pull your score down to only 251. That is why, those who are very good in Chinese would definitely have an advantage. All the talk about giving language double weightage is not correct. Well, I am very concern for my boy too.


I have attached the bell curve for your info

http://www.postimage.org/

[justsay]

P6boy-dad:

Jennifer:

[quote=\"P6boy-dad\"]What i can say about the T-Score for Chinese is that, the mean score is VERY high at least 82 and the SD is about 7-8 marks. It means that your child has to score above 82 before he can obtain a T-score of 50 and above. Any marks below the mean score would result in score below 50 for Chinese. I am sure alot of parents dont realise that, thinking that as long as my child score 75 marks would be sufficient. That was why a student who scored 3A* and 1A (chinese) would get a score of 244. The A for Chinese would have given him a T-score of 41 if he scores only 75 marks.

Pls share how you get the numbers in the above computation. Your post makes me depressed

Sorry to make you depressed. Actually it is quite easy to derive the mean marks and SD for Chinese. Firstly, around 80% of the candidates scored A & A* almost every year. Therefore, the mean score would never be 75% and below. Secondly, Statistics 101 says that most students (34.1%) would fall between the 1st standard deviation on the left and right (layman) of the mean score. Meaning, adding or subtracting the SD to the mean score would cover the entire 1st SD left and right of the mean score. It also means that, only with a mean of 82-83 marks and a SD of 7-8 for Chinese would likely cover the entire right hand side of the mean score as 80% of the students obtain 75 and above. Every one SD in the T-score terms constitute 10 pts (+ on the left and - on the right). The next SD would be another 10 pts (2nd SD). If our child score 75 marks, the T-score for Chinese would be est. -9 (41) although it is an A grade. Those who score a high A grade of 90 would have scored a T-score of 9 (59). The difference is actually quite great. Even if you scored VERY well for your other 3 subjects, it would likely pull down your T-Score. For example, imagine scoring 70 pts (which is top 2.1% of the cohort) for all three subjects but with a score of 41 in Chinese, it would pull your score down to only 251. That is why, those who are very good in Chinese would definitely have an advantage. All the talk about giving language double weightage is not correct. Well, I am very concern for my boy too.


I have attached the bell curve for your info



http://www.postimage.org/Ts1xP_90.png[/img][/url][/quote] :thankyou: for sharing.

Do you think the raw score has been moderated to achieve mean of 82 (I know it's estimated) ? Otherwise I am rather scepticle that so many can do so well.

[Lynn2]

thanks for sharing.


Just wonder, how is the grade for science, as in A or A star affects the overall T score, is it as much as CHINESE?Thanks

P6boy-dad:

Jennifer:

[quote=\"P6boy-dad\"]What i can say about the T-Score for Chinese is that, the mean score is VERY high at least 82 and the SD is about 7-8 marks. It means that your child has to score above 82 before he can obtain a T-score of 50 and above. Any marks below the mean score would result in score below 50 for Chinese. I am sure alot of parents dont realise that, thinking that as long as my child score 75 marks would be sufficient. That was why a student who scored 3A* and 1A (chinese) would get a score of 244. The A for Chinese would have given him a T-score of 41 if he scores only 75 marks.

Pls share how you get the numbers in the above computation. Your post makes me depressed

Sorry to make you depressed. Actually it is quite easy to derive the mean marks and SD for Chinese. Firstly, around 80% of the candidates scored A & A* almost every year. Therefore, the mean score would never be 75% and below. Secondly, Statistics 101 says that most students (34.1%) would fall between the 1st standard deviation on the left and right (layman) of the mean score. Meaning, adding or subtracting the SD to the mean score would cover the entire 1st SD left and right of the mean score. It also means that, only with a mean of 82-83 marks and a SD of 7-8 for Chinese would likely cover the entire right hand side of the mean score as 80% of the students obtain 75 and above. Every one SD in the T-score terms constitute 10 pts (+ on the left and - on the right). The next SD would be another 10 pts (2nd SD). If our child score 75 marks, the T-score for Chinese would be est. -9 (41) although it is an A grade. Those who score a high A grade of 90 would have scored a T-score of 9 (59). The difference is actually quite great. Even if you scored VERY well for your other 3 subjects, it would likely pull down your T-Score. For example, imagine scoring 70 pts (which is top 2.1% of the cohort) for all three subjects but with a score of 41 in Chinese, it would pull your score down to only 251. That is why, those who are very good in Chinese would definitely have an advantage. All the talk about giving language double weightage is not correct. Well, I am very concern for my boy too.


I have attached the bell curve for your info

http://www.postimage.org/[/quote]

[justsay]

Jennifer:

P6boy-dad:

What i can say about the T-Score for Chinese is that, the mean score is VERY high at least 82 and the SD is about 7-8 marks. It means that your child has to score above 82 before he can obtain a T-score of 50 and above. Any marks below the mean score would result in score below 50 for Chinese. I am sure alot of parents dont realise that, thinking that as long as my child score 75 marks would be sufficient. That was why a student who scored 3A* and 1A (chinese) would get a score of 244. The A for Chinese would have given him a T-score of 41 if he scores only 75 marks.

Pls share how you get the numbers in the above computation. Your post makes me depressed

Jennifer, you are not alone.
Scoring 80+ marks and T score is only 50 ? ...Arrgg. :stupid: Demoralising isn't it ?

[P6boy-dad]

Lynn2:

thanks for sharing.


Just wonder, how is the grade for science, as in A or A star affects the overall T score, is it as much as CHINESE?Thanks

Firstly, if u may notice that every year all the three subjects (math, Sc, Eng), 41-43% of the cohort would obtain A & A*. Statistically, i do not agree that every year there would be same % of students obtaining that score (of course nobody knows the % of A and A*). I am not sure if there is any adjustment/moderation etc. Even there is, it will not affect the relative scores of all students. What i m trying to say is that, it doesnt matter how your child scores in the subject but wat is important is that as long as relative to the cohort, your child must be above the mean score and his score is better than his/her peers. The T-score measures how well your child has done relative to the entire cohort. The mean score and SD should have already taken care of the papers' level of difficulty. In the case of Chinese, every mark counts as the mean is 'high' and SD is 'low' - the difference between scoring 90 and 75 marks for Chinese could mean a T-score of 18 pts (+ and -) difference. Honestly, if you peek at the results of schools like TaoNan (or most Hokkien WK), you will know what i mean - one year (07 or 08) almost 45% of the students score 250 and above. Such schools are reputated for their Chinese language. I must also qualify that the school (Tao Nan) was equally good in their English (80% A &A*).

[Poonie]

Hi justsay


That’s shocking low! For estimate’s sake, I plugged in the Std Deviation of 14 and Mean of 68 used by MOE at all school’s presentation, I got a T score of 58 for a raw score of 80. That works out to around 232. Of course the SD and Mean change every year.

[Jennifer]

justsay:

Jennifer, you are not alone.

Scoring 80+ marks and T score is only 50 ? ...Arrgg. :stupid: Demoralising isn't it ?

My boy just broke the 70 pts hurdle, barely 80 pt. Hiaz

[Jennifer]

P6boy-dad:

Sorry to make you depressed. Actually it is quite easy to derive the mean marks and SD for Chinese. Firstly, around 80% of the candidates scored A & A* almost every year. Therefore, the mean score would never be 75% and below. Secondly, Statistics 101 says that most students (34.1%) would fall between the 1st standard deviation on the left and right (layman) of the mean score. Meaning, adding or subtracting the SD to the mean score would cover the entire 1st SD left and right of the mean score. It also means that, only with a mean of 82-83 marks and a SD of 7-8 for Chinese would likely cover the entire right hand side of the mean score as 80% of the students obtain 75 and above. Every one SD in the T-score terms constitute 10 pts (+ on the left and - on the right). The next SD would be another 10 pts (2nd SD). If our child score 75 marks, the T-score for Chinese would be est. -9 (41) although it is an A grade. Those who score a high A grade of 90 would have scored a T-score of 9 (59). The difference is actually quite great. Even if you scored VERY well for your other 3 subjects, it would likely pull down your T-Score. For example, imagine scoring 70 pts (which is top 2.1% of the cohort) for all three subjects but with a score of 41 in Chinese, it would pull your score down to only 251. That is why, those who are very good in Chinese would definitely have an advantage. All the talk about giving language double weightage is not correct. Well, I am very concern for my boy too.

Thank you for sharing.

[karmeleon]

Poonie:

Hi justsay


That's shocking low! For estimate's sake, I plugged in the Std Deviation of 14 and Mean of 68 used by MOE at all school's presentation, I got a T score of 58 for a raw score of 80. That works out to around 232. Of course the SD and Mean change every year.

Now, that's why many parents these days try get their chidlren exempted from CL if the child realy struggling.