2011 PSLE Discussions and Strategy

[Augmum]

MandyMummy:

ngbrdad:

[quote=\"jtoh\"]For languages, a school's standard can be very different from the national standard. Some schools have very high standards for English or Chinese and it would be tough scoring A* in school papers. But compared against the nation, these kids would perform very well. Similarly, it could be that in a school where the standard of English or Chinese paper is average, it might be possible to score an A* consistently in a school paper but not at PSLE.

But is it usual for a kid to score a distinction for higher Chinese but only an A for Chinese ?

I think it is pretty unusual. Most of the kids I know got A* for CL and merit for HCL.[/quote]agree....this is the usual score if they had gotten A* for CL.

[Augmum]

sometimes, pupils can score much higher in HCL compo rather than CL compo,

that what happened to my gal and some of her P6 classmates…
perhaps, that could also contribute to the slight diff in marks…
(but dun think to the extend of pulling down the CL paper fr A* to A)

[linden2000]

Augmum:

not only that........
the A* is fixed at 91 marks for schools exams whereas in PSLE,
it is not necessary at 91, depending on the bell curve.....
i clarified this with my gal's pri sch teacher......
becos in her sch, for levels P5 n 6, i observed that there werent a single A* pupil for Eng lang during sch exams,
but for psle.....quite a number of them could get A*

Thought i remember reading from some other thread that only the T-score is dependent on the bell curve but the grades like A* and A are based on raw scores. :? So which way is it? :?

[jhjkksdad]

linden2000:

Augmum:

not only that........
the A* is fixed at 91 marks for schools exams whereas in PSLE,
it is not necessary at 91, depending on the bell curve.....
i clarified this with my gal's pri sch teacher......
becos in her sch, for levels P5 n 6, i observed that there werent a single A* pupil for Eng lang during sch exams,
but for psle.....quite a number of them could get A*

Thought i remember reading from some other thread that only the T-score is dependent on the bell curve but the grades like A* and A are based on raw scores. :? So which way is it? :?

I was told by my son's form teacher that A* is curve fitted. I suppose it is for the 90th percentile. My son only got 1 A* in school, but he got 4 A* in PSLE, so I believe it must have been curve fitted.

[Ms tay]

I got it :idea:Ds told me that psle hr Chinese was super easy if compare to the prelim and normal exam... So due to the bell curve the easier paper the tougher to score higher, unless the student is extremely good at it . am I right ?? :roll:

[linden2000]

http://www.facebook.com/notes/ministry-of-education-singapore/measures-in-place-in-exam-and-admissions-systems-to-relieve-pressure-on-students/10150302450237004


This note seems to suggest grades are not bell curve-fitted or am I interpreting it wrongly?

[Otah]

ngbrdad:

jtoh:

For languages, a school's standard can be very different from the national standard. Some schools have very high standards for English or Chinese and it would be tough scoring A* in school papers. But compared against the nation, these kids would perform very well. Similarly, it could be that in a school where the standard of English or Chinese paper is average, it might be possible to score an A* consistently in a school paper but not at PSLE.

But is it usual for a kid to score a distinction for higher Chinese but only an A for Chinese ?

Possible when the compo went out of point. Also possible to GEP/ Twining class pupils since from P4 to P6SA1 they only tested on HCL papers and lack of focus on CL paper.

[supermumto3]

Hi 2ppaamm


What you mentioned on your post dated 30 Nov 2011 regarding the transfer credits sounds new to me… Could you shed light on this???

Thanks a mil

[2ppaamm]

linden2000:

http://www.facebook.com/notes/ministry-of-education-singapore/measures-in-place-in-exam-and-admissions-systems-to-relieve-pressure-on-students/10150302450237004


This note seems to suggest grades are not bell curve-fitted or am I interpreting it wrongly?

I think that article came after a lot of talk about PSLE being on the curve and the problems it presents. Specifically it is clear that there is no quota to the number of A* or As in any subject, this means that MOE does not determine the number of A*s and As based on the bell curve. If a student gets >91, he gets an A*. It means A* (or any grade) is based upon the absolute score of the child and not in comparison to the cohort. That's clear.

What's not mentioned is the way the T-score is calculated. For each subject, the T-score = 50+10*[(x-mean)/s.d.]

Compare that to the bell curve or normdist calculation of z-value, z=(x-mean)/s.d.

In our PSLE T-score, they multiple that z value by 10 and then add 50 to it. These are constants and therefore, no matter how you plot it, it will be a bell-curve. Hence, the subject subject T-score is a PERFECT bell curve.

The T-score for the 4 subjects are then added for each child for the PSLE T-score. Hence, while the PSLE T-score may not be a perfect bell curve, it is an aggregation of 4 (or 3) bell curves.

Hope I make sense?

If you follow me so far, it would mean that if the exam paper is easy that year, the mean will be very high, and assuming the s.d. is constant from year to year, your child's T-score will still be around the same, but the number of A* and A will increase. The reverse is true for difficult papers.

Now if you are still with me, if you have a very diverse group of student that year, then the s.d. could be very high, and we hold the difficulty of the paper constant, the range of the PSLE T-score in the cohort is large compared to a cohort with more uniform performers.

Now, we have the PSLE T-score cracked. Hopefully those who have more insights can shed more light. I am looking at it at a pure mathematical/statistical view. Which should apply.

And then a caveat. The PSLE is conducted by MOE only and no external or independent party is involved in its audit. Hence, MOE can manipulate it in anyway it wants/deems fit. It is answerable to nobody on how each child's T-score is calculated. This is a Singapore only exam, and therefore nobody else in the world uses its mechanism, or recognize its purpose. So PSLE is purposeless outside Singapore and even in Singapore, is used as a placement exam only at secondary school level.

So, if the T-score deviates, nobody can understand why or audit the process. It will be a mystery. :scratchhead: Hope this helps!

[2ppaamm]

supermumto3:

Hi 2ppaamm


What you mentioned on your post dated 30 Nov 2011 regarding the transfer credits sounds new to me... Could you shed light on this???

Thanks a mil

Can you clarify which post you mean? Is it Advanced Placement from College Board which NUSH students can opt to take at the end of Year 6?
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/about.html