Q&A - PSLE Math

[atutor2001]

Muffins:

atutor2001:

[quote]

A man spent 1/5 of his money on clothes and a few sevenths on food. He has $152 left. How much did he spend on food?

This question is actually a prelim question from a neighbourhood school. It is very interesting because it tests the kids understanding of fractions and multiples. For those who love using model, it is the easiest way to understand.

Hi atutor2001,
Is the answer $380?[/quote]I also get $380, tianzhu also get 380 so I think it should be correct. :lol:

[Muffins]

Lynn1967:

Muffins:

Hi Lynn1967 and Mama Leong,
Teachers are VERY ignorant of using algebra to solve problems, but algebra is an accurate and accepted way of solving problems, but they do not accept it for some reason. Maybe they do not unerstand it so they want us to simplify it for them? :lol:

And Mama Leong, it is \"why weren't you a sec tutor instead\", not \"why WASN'T you a sec tutor instead\"...

Muffins:
I don't see a need for you to correct Mama Leong's language as I think Mama Leong is not a teacher/tutor. In the first place, aren't you able to spot so many errors of your own?

Examples:

It should be 'Teachers are VERY ignorant in using algebra to solve problems' and not 'Teachers are VERY ignorant of using algebra to solve problems';

It should be ' ... accept it for some reasons ' and not '... accept it for some reason'

You are right Lynn1967, I should be looking out for myself first before looking out for other people's faults. Sorry MamaLeong... :imsorry:

[James Ang]

Lynn1967:

Last yr when my dd was in P5, she had a prob sum which she can't do. in the end my husband use algebra and solve it.


When the homework was returned, her teacher mark a big cross. But the answer is correct. My daughter went to look for the teacher. Her teacher told her', Tis method is not taught, not accepted!\"

I am not the one who says that Algebra cannot be used, it is the school teachers that penalises us for using!

If the problem is solved by the parent and not the student, then algebra did not help the student to solve the problems independently. If the student really knows algebra well and can convince the teacher his/her ability, maybe the teacher has to give in a bit if the student can explain how he/she derived the answers correctly using algebra.

Algebra is an international \"gold\" standard, no genuine Maths educator/teacher can \"ban\" algebra and/or discard it.

hence the position \"In the marking of PSLE Mathematics, all mathematically correct solutions are acceptable and there is no loss of marks if a correct algebraic method is used.\"

[James Ang]

Lynn1967:

Last yr when my dd was in P5, she had a prob sum which she can't do. in the end my husband use algebra and solve it.


When the homework was returned, her teacher mark a big cross. But the answer is correct. My daughter went to look for the teacher. Her teacher told her', Tis method is not taught, not accepted!\"

I am not the one who says that Algebra cannot be used, it is the school teachers that penalises us for using!

If the problem is solved by the parent and not the student, then algebra did not help the student to solve the problems independently. If the student really knows algebra well and can convince the teacher his/her ability, maybe the teacher has to give in a bit if the student can explain how he/she derived the answers correctly using algebra.

Algebra is an international \"gold\" standard, no genuine Maths educator/teacher can \"ban\" algebra and/or discard it.

hence the position \"In the marking of PSLE Mathematics, all mathematically correct solutions are acceptable and there is no loss of marks if a correct algebraic method is used.\"

[red rose]

If the problem is solved by the parent and not the student, then algebra did not help the student to solve the problems independently. If the student really knows algebra well and can convince the teacher his/her ability, maybe the teacher has to give in a bit if the student can explain how he/she derived the answers correctly using algebra.


Algebra is an international \"gold\" standard, no genuine Maths educator/teacher can \"ban\" algebra and/or discard it.

hence the position \"In the marking of PSLE Mathematics, all mathematically correct solutions are acceptable and there is no loss of marks if a correct algebraic method is used.\"[/quote]

Just to add my 2 cents worth. While I completely agree with James, I do believe that pupils are strongly discouraged from using algebra to solve problems (other than algebra questions) at PSLE level.

My child's teacher actually taught the class an alternative method which he calls 'disguised algebra'. The concepts used are algebraic in nature but instead of using letters, units or parts are used in their place. Eg. Instead of saying,' Let a be the number of apples', one can choose to rephrase and say ' Let the number of apples be 1 unit'. The teacher claims that this method of showing working is 'acceptable'.

[MoonFlower]

[quote]Just to add my 2 cents worth. While I completely agree with James, I do believe that pupils are strongly discouraged from using algebra to solve problems (other than algebra questions) at PSLE level.


My child's teacher actually taught the class an alternative method which he calls 'disguised algebra'. The concepts used are algebraic in nature but instead of using letters, units or parts are used in their place. Eg. Instead of saying,' Let a be the number of apples', one can choose to rephrase and say ' Let the number of apples be 1 unit'. The teacher claims that this method of showing working is 'acceptable'. :D[/quote]I was talking about using of Algebra with a friend who is tutor, she feels that maybe the teacher didn;t accept the answer as school didn;t really teach. In p6, they just cover simple algebra. I remembered a mom posted like her girl use algebra the teacher marked wrong and stated use the model drawing. perhpas, teacher needs to explain to the children or teach the children the correct way to use model drawing on such questions then. My P4 ds shared with me, his classmate used that to solve and teacher didn;t not accept and explained to the children the reason not accepting as they are not taught yet.

Your child's teacher seem to be like using the model pattern method, maybe just didn;t show the model drawing, cos i noticed model drawing use like 1 unit 1 part in explaining.

Actually, I was sort of wondering, seem like it getting confusion for parents, on 1 hand MOE said can use to answer during psle. onthe other hand, the poor math teachers in school are kind of \"told\" cannot accpet as not fully taught. Really hope, someone can bring up this and MOE can advise us. In such case, i was reading and following the PSLE posts, seem like we parents have no choice but kiasu a bit, needto make sure our children knows Algebra nad can slove the questions during PSLE. :?

[Lynn1967]

MoonFlower:

[quote]Just to add my 2 cents worth. While I completely agree with James, I do believe that pupils are strongly discouraged from using algebra to solve problems (other than algebra questions) at PSLE level.


My child's teacher actually taught the class an alternative method which he calls 'disguised algebra'. The concepts used are algebraic in nature but instead of using letters, units or parts are used in their place. Eg. Instead of saying,' Let a be the number of apples', one can choose to rephrase and say ' Let the number of apples be 1 unit'. The teacher claims that this method of showing working is 'acceptable'.

I was talking about using of Algebra with a friend who is tutor, she feels that maybe the teacher didn;t accept the answer as school didn;t really teach. In p6, they just cover simple algebra. I remembered a mom posted like her girl use algebra the teacher marked wrong and stated use the model drawing. perhpas, teacher needs to explain to the children or teach the children the correct way to use model drawing on such questions then. My P4 ds shared with me, his classmate used that to solve and teacher didn;t not accept and explained to the children the reason not accepting as they are not taught yet.

Your child's teacher seem to be like using the model pattern method, maybe just didn;t show the model drawing, cos i noticed model drawing use like 1 unit 1 part in explaining.

Actually, I was sort of wondering, seem like it getting confusion for parents, on 1 hand MOE said can use to answer during psle. onthe other hand, the poor math teachers in school are kind of \"told\" cannot accpet as not fully taught. Really hope, someone can bring up this and MOE can advise us. In such case, i was reading and following the PSLE posts, seem like we parents have no choice but kiasu a bit, needto make sure our children knows Algebra nad can slove the questions during PSLE. :?[/quote]I believe in the past, MOE reccomend schools to teach pri students model drawing to solve problem sums. Hence modal answers are all prepared using model drawing. I do agree on the part that since school did not teach algebra, they 'disallowed' pupils from using such methods.

But as more & more parents challenge MOE on this issue, they had to openly accept all logically derived methods eg algebra, not just model, as long as the method is sensible.

So that causes the confusion. Becos in the past, I have also heard that pupils should not use algebra to solve, not juz my kid alone.

[rains]

It’s interesting how outsiders perceive teachers as ignorant when outsiders are ignorant of how teachers and the education system work.


Teachers in Singapore have been through the compulsory education of primary school and have advanced beyond secondary school education. Most teachers are graduates and even for those who are not, I’m very sure they have learnt algebra in secondary school.

Teachers do know how to use algebra to solve problems. The real problem is: primary school students’ maths syllabus does not require them to use algebra to solve problems. Sure, teachers can teach them to use algebra as a heuristic, but we’re sure to see more confused students than enlightened ones, given that the majority are struggling with the current number of problem-solving strategies.

And to teach students to use algebra as a heuristic, the content of the topic needs to be more in-depth than what we have at present, and algebra is perceived to be of a higher level maths. Most of our children are not ready for it.

So, teachers do not show students how to use algebra to solve problems. Teachers do use algebra to solve problems, but as teachers, they need to devise a method other than algebra to solve the problem before they demonstrate it to students. From what I know, some teachers use algebra to solve the problem first, if it’s difficult, then work backward to find a heuristic familiar and easier for students to use. In fact, many teachers are adept at using algebra to solve mathematical problems, but they spend alot more time on how to use a ‘simpler’ method so that students are able to use what they are taught and are familiar with to solve the problems.

So please don’t assume that teachers do not know their algebra.

[Muffins]

rains:

It's interesting how outsiders perceive teachers as ignorant when outsiders are ignorant of how teachers and the education system work.


Teachers in Singapore have been through the compulsory education of primary school and have advanced beyond secondary school education. Most teachers are graduates and even for those who are not, I'm very sure they have learnt algebra in secondary school.

Teachers do know how to use algebra to solve problems. The real problem is: primary school students' maths syllabus does not require them to use algebra to solve problems. Sure, teachers can teach them to use algebra as a heuristic, but we're sure to see more confused students than enlightened ones, given that the majority are struggling with the current number of problem-solving strategies.

And to teach students to use algebra as a heuristic, the content of the topic needs to be more in-depth than what we have at present, and algebra is perceived to be of a higher level maths. Most of our children are not ready for it.

So, teachers do not show students how to use algebra to solve problems. Teachers do use algebra to solve problems, but as teachers, they need to devise a method other than algebra to solve the problem before they demonstrate it to students. From what I know, some teachers use algebra to solve the problem first, if it's difficult, then work backward to find a heuristic familiar and easier for students to use. In fact, many teachers are adept at using algebra to solve mathematical problems, but they spend alot more time on how to use a 'simpler' method so that students are able to use what they are taught and are familiar with to solve the problems.

So please don't assume that teachers do not know their algebra.

Right you are, rains...

Most teachers just see algebra as an alternative way of solving problems, like, instead of climbing a wall, you just walk around it? That is an easier way, but the teachers want you to scale that wall, to make it over, to know what you are doing!

Just in that way, the teachers aren't entirely REFUSING to teach in-depth algebra, they just want to see their students using the methods taught to them in school, so they don't feel their efforts are being wasted talking on and on about methods that are blatantly being ignored because of the \"easier\" algebraic method...

[rains]

Muffins:

Right you are, rains...


Most teachers just see algebra as an alternative way of solving problems, like, instead of climbing a wall, you just walk around it? That is an easier way, but the teachers want you to scale that wall, to make it over, to know what you are doing!

Just in that way, the teachers aren't entirely REFUSING to teach in-depth algebra, they just want to see their students using the methods taught to them in school, so they don't feel their efforts are being wasted talking on and on about methods that are blatantly being ignored because of the \"easier\" algebraic method...

I think you didn't get my point. Teachers are not so inflexible as to want students to use the methods taught for the sake of not wasting their effort in teaching the methods. Teachers have many constraints in teaching. If any teacher dares to challenge the syllabus and teach algebra as a heuristic, any parent can jump up to the teacher's face and get the teacher sacked because it's out of syllabus. Most of our children are NOT ready for algebra and the topic is out of syllabus. If teachers teach algebra, they are asking for trouble.

To adults, algebra is easy. To kids, algebra is greek. It's very abstract for children to associate algebra with numbers and problem-solving. It's definitely not an 'easier' way to solve problems.

Our syllabus is not plucked out of thin air. Teachers teach only certain things and not other things because of the cognitive level of children. I'm sure there isn't a teacher who wants to confine his students to what he teaches. Teachers are human beings like you and I. Teachers also been through schools. Teachers also have kids themselves. Teachers think as parents. They just hope that parents can, for a moment, think as teachers.