Should DSA be scrapped?
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Snow Crystal:
Snow Crystal, you are right that DSA is mainly for CCAs / sports / GEP.
DSA via academic for mainstream is limited vacancies. More of DSA via GEP is the biggest group for the top IPs (RI, RGS, HCI, NYGH, ACSI etc). I am getting used to the notion that other than sports/CCA, DSA is mainly for GEPpers. But I guess we (the mainstream parents) have to understand these GEP kids are undergoing a different track and not totally prepared for PSLE. Thus, DSA is the primary route for their admission and actually the carrot for entry into GEP. Many GEP parents commented that if not for easier entry into top IPs via DSA, they won't put their kids throughout the GEP route. Looking at the big picture, the government seems to have intention to give GEPpers a real through train - from P4 to JC. Bulk of them enter via DSA. By right the top IPs can cater to all GEPpers. However of course along the way, due to various reasons such as multiple COs situation etc, some of the not so high scorers in GEP get squeezed out. That's another story.Zhuge:
I am a parent.
I think DSA via CCA/Sports is ok as it allow the school to have a wider scope of students, and this intake is very small.
But for DSA via Academic, which is half of the school's intake. This seem unfair as students with better PSLE results are deprived of places
There are always 2 sides to a coin:
- To the GEPpers and their parents, they will say that DSA is a necessity as GEP kids are undergoing a different track and not totally prepared for PSLE. To squeeze in PSLE preparation within the last 3 months is not a fair game to GEPpers.
- To the mainstreamers and their parents, they will say that DSA is not fair to mainstreamers. Statistics have shown that most GEPpers obtain quite high score for PSLE. Afterall if they are gifted, why can't they cope with the syllabus? And if they can't cope with the syllabus, should they be considering GEP? In fact, if they take the performace of the GEPpers cohort vs mainstream cohort, is there statistics to show that GEPpers actually perform worst off (or on par or better off) than the top classes of mainstream cohorts?
I am not siding GEPpers or mainstreamers. I am just presenting both sides of view. This topic of DSA fair / unfair is going to exist as long as there are different systems / syllabus and different treatment for different groups of students (even within same school). Everyone is equal, some people are just more equal than others. There is simply no way to achieve pure equality. -
Pen88n:
Snow Crystal, you are right that DSA is mainly for CCAs / sports / GEP.
DSA via academic for mainstream is limited vacancies. More of DSA via GEP is the biggest group for the top IPs (RI, RGS, HCI, NYGH, ACSI etc). I am getting used to the notion that other than sports/CCA, DSA is mainly for GEPpers. But I guess we (the mainstream parents) have to understand these GEP kids are undergoing a different track and not totally prepared for PSLE. Thus, DSA is the primary route for their admission and actually the carrot for entry into GEP. Many GEP parents commented that if not for easier entry into top IPs via DSA, they won't put their kids throughout the GEP route. Looking at the big picture, the government seems to have intention to give GEPpers a real through train - from P4 to JC. Bulk of them enter via DSA. By right the top IPs can cater to all GEPpers. However of course along the way, due to various reasons such as multiple COs situation etc, some of the not so high scorers in GEP get squeezed out. That's another story.Snow Crystal:
[quote=\"Zhuge\"]
I am a parent.
I think DSA via CCA/Sports is ok as it allow the school to have a wider scope of students, and this intake is very small.
But for DSA via Academic, which is half of the school's intake. This seem unfair as students with better PSLE results are deprived of places
There are always 2 sides to a coin:
- To the GEPpers and their parents, they will say that DSA is a necessity as GEP kids are undergoing a different track and not totally prepared for PSLE. To squeeze in PSLE preparation within the last 3 months is not a fair game to GEPpers.
- To the mainstreamers and their parents, they will say that DSA is not fair to mainstreamers. Statistics have shown that most GEPpers obtain quite high score for PSLE. Afterall if they are gifted, why can't they cope with the syllabus? And if they can't cope with the syllabus, should they be considering GEP? In fact, if they take the performace of the GEPpers cohort vs mainstream cohort, is there statistics to show that GEPpers actually perform worst off (or on par or better off) than the top classes of mainstream cohorts?
I am not siding GEPpers or mainstreamers. I am just presenting both sides of view. This topic of DSA fair / unfair is going to exist as long as there are different systems / syllabus and different treatment for different groups of students (even within same school). Everyone is equal, some people are just more equal than others. There is simply no way to achieve pure equality.[/quote]I am not sure the MOE cares whether it is fair for parents/kids or not. DSA allows schools to cherrypick CCA talent that'll help schools WIN prizes... and look good. Principals look good. Coaches look good. Teachers-in-charge look good.
The wellbeing of the kids is last on this list of priorities. Education is no more about children. It's about careers. -
ya dsa sure have its gd and bad points. but one thing i don lk is tt they give more chances to those who dsa. its not lk those who didnt dsa are bad in our ccas lor. so im planning to dsa into jc or poly next time , or rather go into an arts sch. anyone have experience in audition?
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DSA-can be broken down into 1.CCA’s,2.Express Academic 3.IP programs and 3.
potential performers in anyone listed above that respective school may be interested in.
I heard someone say those selected by sports CCA in one top school are asked to sit for their exams as private candidates.
Express academic schools DSA candidates show promise of good performance and the school feels strongly about the student.
IP program schools are convinced on the student’s excellent performance and in the top of their co-horts.1.This includes GEP students.2.Non-GEP students who had missed out being selected earlier for P4.The academic program is vigorous relatively about 2 years ahead of other secondary school students giving more time to explore additional subjects in depth.PSLE scores are subjected to the mean and std deviation which may deprive potential *performers of entry. This is why they want the DSA to continue, not to deprive star performers of gaining entry. -
I think that is the analogy behind DSA.
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Dr.K:
This is why they want the DSA to continue, not to deprive star performers of gaining entry.
It has nothing to do with depriving students. They don't really care about the students. What they want is the CCA prize so every adult educator looks good. They are using our children to further their careers. -
Let’s look at it from another way. Even if these CCA star performers are admitted, there is no guarantee that they will perform excellently for the school. I did not remember that my tennis classmate won many matches for the school. However, for a child to gain entry to the desired school, the exposure to the environment , the teaching methods and the network of the friends are valuable experiences desired by the child. Now whether it suits the child, it is the choice of the child to choose that school and the point is he/she is given the opportunity even academics is not the strength. Granted some schools may have taken this exercise far too commercially but I think at the end it boils down to the individual principal’s value system and vision for the school. I won’t account it to MOE totally.
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ksi:
Let's look at it from another way. Even if these CCA star performers are admitted, there is no guarantee that they will perform excellently for the school. I did not remember that my tennis classmate won many matches for the school. However, for a child to gain entry to the desired school, the exposure to the environment , the teaching methods and the network of the friends are valuable experiences desired by the child. Now whether it suits the child, it is the choice of the child to choose that school and the point is he/she is given the opportunity even academics is not the strength. Granted some schools may have taken this exercise far too commercially but I think at the end it boils down to the individual principal's value system and vision for the school. I won't account it to MOE totally.
Principals respond to incentive systems. This notion that Principals bear the responsibility was one that MOE proffered too. \"It's the Principals' accountability. Not our business.\"
MOE cannot do that.
Principals are part of the MOE too. Instead of sitting back and pointing a finger at the Principal, the MOE should sit down and examine WHY Principals do certain things. Promoting the wrong people with the wrong values? Promoting those who view winning as everything? Incentive system a bit off? Schools get more funding when there are wins.
I did not explicitly say that it was all accountable to MOE. I merely pointed out why top schools WANT the DSA to continue. It isn't just the Principal, the whole system puts awards before student welfare. My DD was a DSA child. The pressure was from all sides. It's systemic, not just from the Principal.
From my own experience, children of 13 and 14 were made to miss TWO hours of classes everyday to train for 1 month before the competition. After the competition, they had to train everyday after school till 8pm. On Saturdays and Sundays, training was from 9am to 7pm. One child cried because she had not time to study. Poor child's parents dared not intervene. My DD cried too. I asked her to choose (because I was afraid of the Principal), saying that it was ok if she failed an exam or too. She chose to study. In the end, my husband kicked my butt and made me stand up for my DD.
I yelled. Escalated the matter to the Principal. Wrote letters. The Principal was the reasonable one. Even then, the Principal was working against systemic pressures to WIN, WIN and WIN. Despite her own misgivings, the school is incentivised to WIN. Her Teachers know that they will get good appraisals if they show up a WIN.
After getting gold for the school the poor child who cried failed all her exams and she was asked to leave the school. Now, if someone had cared enough, or had been wise enough to bring balance back between training and study, this child would not have failed. The incident was traumatic for the child and did nothing for her self-esteem. DSA is a double-edged sword. Under the much more formalized DSA, you OWE it to the school to bring in that gold. It's a transaction. My DD signed a contract stating that she would train the hours necessary and stay with the CCA. This did not exist in the time when we were students.
It is good though... that they will be reviewing how schools are being appraised. -
and for those who dsa, they may be the head or leader straight away without testing the others (those who did not dsa) abilities. they can perform and enter more competitions than a student who did not dsa but their abilities are about the same. is it very stressful to dsa? do you think that i should dsa into jc/ poly next time?
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Mynameis...:
and for those who dsa, they may be the head or leader straight away without testing the others (those who did not dsa) abilities. they can perform and enter more competitions than a student who did not dsa but their abilities are about the same. is it very stressful to dsa? do you think that i should dsa into jc/ poly next time?
I think it is a matter of:
1. How much you really want to enter that institution?
2. How much you like that CCA in order to perform well all the time?
If you really want something, you will make it happen for yourself despite all trials along the way.
If you are really good in the CCA, it should be a breeze to be contributing.
If you cannot answer the above 2 questions sufficiently to convince yourself, do not DSA, it means commitment and this requires one to put in great responsibilities.
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