Ministerial Salary Review

[limlim]

ksi:

mum_sugoku:

Haha what to do? Monkey see monkey do, if leaders cannot lead by example, can't expect people not to become like that also. I remember one reason they cited for the ultra high salaries is that people cannot expect them to \"sacrifice too much\" for going into politics. So if they themselves don't want to \"sacrifice\", how to convince others to sacrifice?

Well said!! It is appalling to imagine that leaders emulating the commoners' poor behaviour....how to lead? :oops: :oops: :oops: If citizens complain...can't beat them join them? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Speaking of the someone who ask workers to be \"cheaper better faster\" to be competitive and to bite the bullet.... when they themselves can't do it..

[mum_sugoku]

3Boys:

Its a right thing the g'ment has done, and it needed to be done. It goes a long way, but is still only a start, in beginning to re-engage disaffected citizenry, wrought by their tin-ear and cynical politicking. They've had their comeuppance, and they are now paying for it, literally and deservedly.


What am I uncomfortable about is the notion that our political leaders need to be monks. I grant that I am depicting the picture in a over-simplified way, and many of you have more nuance in your positions, which is great. However, predictably enough, there are already plentiful calls that this does not go far enough, or does not matter enough. There is a slippery slope here that I am really wary about. We are all aware generally of intended consequences, quite often what we do not appreciate, until too late, are the unintended consequences.

I believe the reason why some felt that the %cut is not good enough is because after the pay cut, they still remain the highest paid politicians in the world (despite the fact that we are not the most developed, richest, largest, most populace, nor are we having citizens with world's highest incomes, or with leaders who are world's most influential, etc.)

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-01-04/news/30588891_1_annual-salary-singapore-cuts-lee-hsien-loong[quote]Singapore cuts PM pay but still world's best paid
AFP Jan 4, 2012, 06.06PM ISTTags:
Yahoo! Singapore|Twitter|Manmohan Singh

SINGAPORE: Singapore will slash its leaders' unpopular multi-million-dollar salaries by at least a third, new guidelines showed Wednesday, but they will remain the world's best-paid politicians.[/quote]Which makes me wonder why is it that political leaders of other larger and far more developed countries eg US, Europe (particularly Germany, France, UK), Japan are able--and/or willing to accept a much lower (wrt ours) salaries while ours cannot?

[tankee]

3Boys:

ksi:

3Boys, perhaps it is worthwhile watching this drama, it has English subtitles and you see that often this surgeon is torn in emergency cases but ultimately his passion to save people took control. If he is completely driven by his career, it would be hard to watch this drama.

It is a drama my friend......one that feeds an unrealistic scenario to a gullible audience. If one based a show on what REALLY went on in an OT, it would be pretty unwatchable too, I'm sure.

DW said the actors in this show is not handsome.

:offtopic: :oops: :siam:

[Chenonceau]

tankee:

3Boys:

[quote=\"ksi\"]3Boys, perhaps it is worthwhile watching this drama, it has English subtitles and you see that often this surgeon is torn in emergency cases but ultimately his passion to save people took control. If he is completely driven by his career, it would be hard to watch this drama.

It is a drama my friend......one that feeds an unrealistic scenario to a gullible audience. If one based a show on what REALLY went on in an OT, it would be pretty unwatchable too, I'm sure.

DW said the actors in this show is not handsome.

:offtopic: :oops: :siam:[/quote]Because you are more hamsum hah?

[tankee]

mum_sugoku:

..........


Which makes me wonder why is it that political leaders of other larger and far more developed countries eg US, Europe (particularly Germany, France, UK), Japan are able--and/or willing to accept a much lower (wrt ours) salaries while ours cannot?

because their pay is not everything. Their benefit package is much much much better.


eg in Japan, MP gets to travel FOC on their trains, MRT and even domestic flights.

[corneyAmber]

tankee:

3Boys:

[quote=\"ksi\"]3Boys, perhaps it is worthwhile watching this drama, it has English subtitles and you see that often this surgeon is torn in emergency cases but ultimately his passion to save people took control. If he is completely driven by his career, it would be hard to watch this drama.

It is a drama my friend......one that feeds an unrealistic scenario to a gullible audience. If one based a show on what REALLY went on in an OT, it would be pretty unwatchable too, I'm sure.

DW said the actors in this show is not handsome.

:offtopic: :oops: :siam:[/quote]Tankee, that is actually the best part, then you focus on the story....otherwise you think how I can watch the story so well? :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :siam: OT..

[limlim]

3Boys:

Question is, which do you prefer?

I would prefer a balance of power and sufficient accountability and transparency. Absolute power is bad.

In other words, I would not want the current Opp to be in absolute power also. But to have a balance of power.

With very good and effective power (with pple like OTC, GKS etc..), a single party can work, just like the old MIW.

But seems like the current MIW is so disappointing.. a 2 party system would work much better now for the benefit of the pple.

[Edureach]

Political office holders shld be adequately compensated and the review commitee’s recommendations are deemed realistic and resonable. On this occassion, we are talking about high pay vs top pay. 3 boys didn’t get it right!



A political office holder is a stateman, a role model that the public trust and look upon to lead a nation. No other job not even the most challenging jobs in the biggest companies can ever come near in terms of responsibilities and its impact on a nation.As such, political office is more of a calling than a career. Imagine if our nation was once led by people who regarded a minister’s job as a career in earlier days? Singapore would never progress this far if not for the personal sacrifices of our earlier PAP leaders whom had enjoyed strong support of the people.

What 3 boys is saying in this forum is to dismiss other arguments by labelling those with other views as supporters of low pay. This is totally incorrect! Nobody in this forum wants a minister to take up the responsibilities with low pay. I recognise the need to pay our ministers adequately. Hence my support to the review committee’s recommendations on this occassion.

As mentioned in my earlier post. the jobs of President, Prime minister and his ministers are meant only for extra-ordinary people. Even the most talented candiates who are not prepared to make sacrifices are just not suitable to be national leaders. A national leader must place the interest of his nation and well-being of the people above himself. Off course, very few outstanding candiates can measured up to it. Personally, i am optimistic that our current leaders fit the bill. In fact unlike 3 boys, i feel that this initiation has provided us with a fertile ground to recruit outstanding candiates to take office in the future.

In conclusion, labelling an office holder as a career and not a calling is simply unwise.

[3Boys]

3Boys:

radiantmum:

Even if you are a genius but if you dont have the compassion for people, don't be a doctor.

There are lots of excellent doctors, surgeons and the like, who have the poorest bedside manners and some of them I suspect have little patience for patients. But they can be darn good at what they do and have no shortage of clientele.

The corollary is that a poorly skilled doctor can get away with a lot of mistakes if he has excellent patient skills. This has been proven over and over again.

Question is, which do you prefer?

The archetype brilliant surgeon, one who is not driven so much by money, but by the power of god in his hands, the perceived adulation afforded him by him underlings (NOT!), and contempt for hospital administrators. His first contact with the patient A is via a CT Scan, henceforth referred to as 'Patient with cancer of left thyroid lobe'.

He loves these surgeries, technically challenging, life-saving. You could say he lives for the tumour, more interested in it than the patient. When you speak with him, he is rude, arrogant, imperious...demanding. He leaves the patient communications to his underlings, refusing to deal with 'irritating' questions from relatives.

BUT, he is darn good, the best, pioneer of new techniques, an international superstar in the field.

99 out of a hundred surgeries go well, the one that doesn't......the patient hires a lawyer and takes him to the cleaners.


Next, Mr Nice Guy surgeon. Reasonably good, but not so confident with the really tough stuff, so takes no risks. Great patient skills, comes in a starched white coat, looks relatives in the eye, explains everything, exudes quiet confidence.

Reliable enough, but he can't hack the tough stuff. One night, a complicated neck emergency comes through, he bungles the case. He explains, he commiserates with the relatives. The hospital board frowns at his management of the patient, not negligent, but may have done things differently. Does not matter, relatives weep but 'understand'. This guy never gets sued.

Caricatures, I know, but not very far from the truth.

Your choice?

[Chenonceau]

limlim:

I would prefer a balance of power and sufficient accountability and transparency. Absolute power is bad.

In other words, I would not want the current Opp to be in absolute power also. But to have a balance of power.

With very good and effective power (with pple like OTC, GKS etc..), a single party can work, just like the old MIW.

But seems like the current MIW is so disappointing.. a 2 party system would work much better now for the benefit of the pple.

This was because GKS, quiet though he may be, had the respect of LKY. GKS was stubborn as a goat, clear in his thinking and able to provide a counterpoint to LKY's strong opinionated character WITHOUT antagonising LKY. GKS was LKY's best frenemy and our country benefited hugely.

Since then, no one has the the strength to counterbalance the Lees. Singular opinions are never good. Diversity and richness of perspectives are critical to good governance. Welcome Chen Show Mao.