Ministerial Salary Review
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In fact personally I don’t understand why this hue and cry about salary.
Is million dollars a lot of money? To me it is . Hell a lot.
But there are many earning that. I wouldnt get near to that but that is not the point. A minister , an MP has to deliver. That is what we should be looking at. Honestly, dun-flame-me I don’t think most of us are competent to judge what should be the salary.
Say a minister has a salary of $10,000 pm , and he blunders, is it ok?
The MPs and ministers have to perform, if they fail to do so they should made answerable, his pay is immaterial . Our vote then is our weapon. -
3Boys:
And I am in agreement that facts must be discussed but unfortunately there are times we do not know the full facts. So issues still need to be raised and perhaps someone with the facts can come along and fill in until we see the entire picture. I see our discussions as playing a jig-saw. We are all not privy to everything and the more we discuss, the more we can piece things together most times. If we get a good picture, we know how to praise or criticise better.ksi:
3Boys, we have not reached the point to worry so much yet about opposition taking over the house. Having some opposition brings many dimensions to an issue. For example, in the forum, we discuss until we can see things for each other's views. It is certainly not a bad thing, both Chenon and I can attest to that. Positive diversity brings about progress. As citizens, I believe we are all watchful not to tip the balance in the scale for the macro picture, we still have faith in the leadership but we need a voice to bounce ideas so that things are not so top-down approach. I believe even for your sons, you will give them a chance to ask why and offer their different views before you come to some middle ground with them, no? If opposition is not constructive, I am sure it will be obvious to many as seen in past cases of undesirable oppositions. Singapore has reached some level of maturity to be able to manage this by its people. Of course I am with you when we read some of the very extreme views on the net that sometimes raise our brows the way the leadership is being brutally bashed. Balance is what we need.
Thank you.
Remember, I voted opposition at the last election, I understand.
The discussion does need to be predicated on a shared platform of agreed facts, or view at least. I think what goes on right now is a matter of establishing what those are. For instance, if someone criticises the g'ment for raising the GST to 7%, first we have to agree on whether 7% GST is in fact a good or bad thing, before we can discuss if the g'ment had done a good or bad job.
Chill pill time, gonna make myself a martini......
I see some of these rants and grouses sometimes as a way to state a problem.
Why am I re-iterating something you probably have voted for as well? Sometimes when I hear your warning signs of \"be careful what you wish for\", it gives me a feeling of a threat that the government can be replaced. I just want to remind... \"not so easy\"...
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Sun_2010:
Why the hue and cry? Salary is paid from the taxpayers' pool of money and so how this money is used is certainly a concern to us. Perhaps the money can be better used? At the end of the day, the burden lies squarely on our shoulders if we have to sustain such a salary structure => higher tax...In fact personally I don't understand why this hue and cry about salary.
Is million dollars a lot of money? To me it is . Hell a lot.
But there are many earning that. I wouldnt get near to that but that is not the point. A minister , an MP has to deliver. That is what we should be looking at. Honestly, dun-flame-me I don't think most of us are competent to judge what should be the salary.
Say a minister has a salary of $10,000 pm , and he blunders, is it ok?
The MPs and ministers have to perform, if they fail to do so they should made answerable, his pay is immaterial . Our vote then is our weapon.
There are 2 fundamental arguments that need probing:
1. Why use obscene amount to attract 'talent' to serve?
2. Why not equitable with our size, given that we are so small as a country?
Now, the fact that they are willing to review means they acknowledge the issues. -
Strparent:
Strparent, :slapshead: sorry la...I have short memory... I vaguely recall that both he and Chenon were actively rooting for the MIW because they brought out many good points about what they have contributed to SG which I also agreed.
3Boys, come on.... dont do the white paper black paper on these leh.
ksi, dunno why u are surprised. Am sure chen was just kidding about it.
if you really read carefully, he is candid, frank, direct - maybe he is challenging just to prove his choice was correct
but seriously, you should know by now, most of the active forumers in 'these sort of threads' are more likely to have voted for opposition.
Those that voted for ruling party are not errrr....'agitated' enough to be too active here, imho.
But I agree with 3Boys on the 7% GST, it is good and need to be there. The only greivance is the lack of clear obvious subsidy from this GST for the truly needy, eg zero rate on pure necessities ( rice, sugar, etc ).3Boys:
SMRT is listed company, whilst Temasek was possibly represented on the board (do they hold a seat?), the decision is a private one not dictated by the g'ment.
Chartered SM? Singtel ? SPH ? DBS ? F&N ? all also public listed.
.......................... :imconstipated: :sick: :censored:
think we should leave it as it is. :siam:
kar kee chai doh ho liao :oops: -
ksi:
I like the jigsaw analogy very much. That's pretty much how I see diversity in opinion too. No one, no matter how educated, has the monopoly on wisdom. Even the best of us live only one life, and we see things through the prism of our own life experience. If we don't encourage some articulation of what life looks like through the prism of another's life experience, then we are poor in our intellectual appreciation of issues. Where the PAP has erred is that they've assumed that the highly talented can naturally appreciate issues from wide-ranging perspectives. This may be true of some individuals but it is usually not true of people. It takes humility and a sincere attempt to WANT to understand to be able to appreciate issues from enough angles to give the issue depth. Truth is a multi-faceted joy that is often a social construction.
Strparent, :slapshead: sorry la...I have short memory... I vaguely recall that both he and Chenon were actively rooting for the MIW because they brought out many good points about what they have contributed to SG which I also agreed.
I am impressed with CSM (aka Yoda) but I thought his comment about it being a \"privilege\" was laying it on a bit thick. I am practical enough to believe that one must pay enough. The way he sounded is that he would do it even if he weren't paid. Maybe he would but many people won't because no independent means. At the end of the day, people must be paid enough to be able to comfortably look after their kids and spouses.
Now before someone shoots at me, let me confess that I hate numbers and I didn't bother to go scrutinise how much bonus and all... I just noted the broad strokes. They did reduce the salary AND CSM's comment was a bit cloying. -
ksi:
Agreed it is tax payees money. We have a right to be concerned, but given the issues facing the nation now, this is being given too much importance.
Why the hue and cry? Salary is paid from the taxpayers' pool of money and so how this money is used is certainly a concern to us. Perhaps the money can be better used? At the end of the day, the burden lies squarely on our shoulders if we have to sustain such a salary structure => higher tax...Sun_2010:
In fact personally I don't understand why this hue and cry about salary.
Is million dollars a lot of money? To me it is . Hell a lot.
But there are many earning that. I wouldnt get near to that but that is not the point. A minister , an MP has to deliver. That is what we should be looking at. Honestly, dun-flame-me I don't think most of us are competent to judge what should be the salary.
Say a minister has a salary of $10,000 pm , and he blunders, is it ok?
The MPs and ministers have to perform, if they fail to do so they should made answerable, his pay is immaterial . Our vote then is our weapon.
There are 2 fundamental arguments that need probing:
1. Why use obscene amount to attract 'talent' to serve?
2. Why not equitable with our size, given that we are so small as a country?
Now, the fact that they are willing to review means they acknowledge the issues.
It seems more due to the \"obsceneness\" than due to the importance.
IMHO, The fact that PAP is willing to review shows they finally realize that the ill-will this issue is causing , so are being forced to face it. Of course it's time they get the feeling on the ground.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that we should know how our tax money is spent, and that the salaries are too high. But to say only those who want to enter politics should do so as it is a calling is too idealistic. It's a tagline that is being exploited.
For me the status of mrt is a greater concern - The hdb/property issues, economic stability, flooding (sorry ponding), immigration these seem outcome of some bad forecast, shortsightedness and complacency....
something systemic which I sincerely hope is being addressed behind the scenes. -
Sun_2010:
For me the status of mrt is a greater concern - The hdb/property issues, economic stability, flooding (sorry ponding), immigration these seem outcome of some bad forecast, shortsightedness and complacency....something systemic which I sincerely hope is being addressed behind the scenes.
Fully agree! Now that they have actually cut the salary, can we move on and talk about the cost of living? How they can help common folks to cope with it? By building more hawker centres and charging reasonable rental etc? -
DesertWind:
Exactly so...Sun_2010:
For me the status of mrt is a greater concern - The hdb/property issues, economic stability, flooding (sorry ponding), immigration these seem outcome of some bad forecast, shortsightedness and complacency....something systemic which I sincerely hope is being addressed behind the scenes.
Fully agree! Now that they have actually cut the salary, can we move on and talk about the cost of living? How they can help common folks to cope with it? By building more hawker centres and charging reasonable rental etc? -
Chenonceau:
Exactly so...[/quote]Yes. We should move on and see how both PAP and opposition can contribute. Frankly thus far opposition is doing what many netizens are doing, criticising only but of course their arguments are more refined than netizens.DesertWind:
[quote=\"Sun_2010\"]For me the status of mrt is a greater concern - The hdb/property issues, economic stability, flooding (sorry ponding), immigration these seem outcome of some bad forecast, shortsightedness and complacency....something systemic which I sincerely hope is being addressed behind the scenes.
Fully agree! Now that they have actually cut the salary, can we move on and talk about the cost of living? How they can help common folks to cope with it? By building more hawker centres and charging reasonable rental etc? -
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