MOE should give P1 registration priority to SG kids?

[Jojobar]

I like the proposal to be honest,we do have a choice. Many of my friends and cousins are now living oversea and do not want to come back. As for me, I am a born Singaporean and by choice. I stay in Singapore becos I love this country and is proud of being a Singaporean. However, I felt very unhappy lately as I feel that being a Singaporean is at a disadvantage in my own country. For example, the pr and foreigner can choose to go international school if they want but we Singaporean is not allow. But yet, Singaporean is not given priority in school registration.


I agree with meritocracy, hence I will have nothing to say if the pr did well and get into the top secondary school. But at 7 years old. What meritocracy ....?... Can't my own nation give my son higher priority in school registration. There is nothing wrong for any country to treat their citizen with priority. In fact, I don't think there is any country like Singapore who treat their pr as equal footing as their citizen. Hence my suggestion to govt is if the pr do not like it, they can exercise their option to go back to their home country.

[jenao]

Can’t help but wonder what is the real intention of MOE when they say they are reviewing the P1 registration. Not only it contradicts what Mr Heng says about all schools are also good but now with everyone so hype up over citizen vs non-citizen, they have to be very careful not to make any wrong move! If they cut or restrict any of the existing phases to make make more room for the rest without restricting PR/foreigners in the earlier phases, then they have a lot of explaining to do and should be prepared for any backlash.


It makes a lot of sense to give priority to citizen especially where resources are limited, in this case popular school with limited availability but somehow when it comes to P1 registration it does not really apply to the phases unless balloting. And foreigners/PR with more talent/resources etc can gain entry into earlier phases. Jim Rogers is able to enrol his kids in Nanyang even though it is almost impossible for Sporean kids to enrol in. Reasonably Sporeans are upset.

[janet88]

jenao:

If they cut or restrict any of the existing phases to make make more room for the rest without restricting PR/foreigners in the earlier phases, then they have a lot of explaining to do and should be prepared for any backlash.


It makes a lot of sense to give priority to citizen especially where resources are limited, in this case popular school with limited availability but somehow when it comes to P1 registration it does not really apply to the phases unless balloting. And foreigners/PR with more talent/resources etc can gain entry into earlier phases eg Jim Rogers who is able to enrol his kids in Nanyang even though it is almost impossible for Sporean kids to enrol in. Reasonably Sporeans are upset.

I sure hope MOE makes careful considerations regarding P1 registration...consequences will be disastrous if it is not to citizens' advantage. Singapore should not be seen as a country who values the rich over ordinary folk like us. Although foreign investors are welcome, it should be SINGAPOREANS FIRST.

[Jojobar]

Totally agree. Singaporean first intent was mentioned by pm lee in his national day rally in 2011. I would expect the new policy from moe to align with the pm led overall intent of Singaporean first. I have no issue with the current phase 2a and phase 2b policy. I would expect the phase from 1 to 2c to be only applicable to Singaporean child. The rest then can be ballot by the pr follow by the foreigner.

[janet88]

Jojobar:

Totally agree. Singaporean first intent was mentioned by pm lee in his national day rally in 2011. I would expect the new policy from moe to align with the pm led overall intent of Singaporean first. I have no issue with the current phase 2a and phase 2b policy. I would expect the phase from 1 to 2c to be only applicable to Singaporean child. The rest then can be ballot by the pr follow by the foreigner.

The child must be born in Singapore and one of the parents must be a Singaporean at the time of the child's birth. After Phase 2C, open to PR.

[limlim]

3Boys:

limlim:

[quote=\"3Boys\"]

You all actually think this is reasonable??

Sorry, I am not continuing this conversation.

invalid accusation + unjust generalization (red).

sorry, your resignation is hereby rejected.. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

limlim, what is your view on the reasonableness of a multi-tiered citizenship. No bait, just your thoughts please.[/quote]For the child.. as long as it is citizen.. don't care MIS or imported.. boy or girl. Provided that they do not posses dual citizenship. IIRC, kids below 21yo can have dual citizenship.

while we hate free loaders and those leeching the system but no commitment here.. I'm still on the fence whether multi-tier citizenship for adults is reasonable or not,.. so.. no comments yet.. But I tend to favor no differentiation..

But I guess the approval process must be more stringent and maybe need some tweaking.. I guess ICA should consider the application also based on significant \"contribution to society\"..

As for what is \"significant contributions\", like NS etc.. I guess can discuss maybe in another topic/thread..

Also, for those who are married. If both convert to citizen, it shd be easier. If only 1 convert and applicant is woman and not the man.. shd reject unless there is special circumstances on case by case basis..

So.. in essence.. it is the approval process that has to be examined.. mebbe not so much for multi-tier citizenship....

[toddles]

znzyzyzx:

My ex-colleague, denounced his spore PR when it was time for him to do NS (which he said was applied for him by his father and he did not study in spore, so did not enjoy any benefit, so why should he serve NS ?). But few years later, he came to work in spore. And we welcome him and give him a work pass, no question asked.

hmmm... the case i know of is opposite. guy renounced PR-ship when it was time to do NS, thereafter married Singaporean, wanted to come back to live here, was willing to DO NS, but ICA rejected. don't think he even got a work permit.

both very highly educated. now both living abroad.

[znzyzyzx]

toddles:

znzyzyzx:

My ex-colleague, denounced his spore PR when it was time for him to do NS (which he said was applied for him by his father and he did not study in spore, so did not enjoy any benefit, so why should he serve NS ?). But few years later, he came to work in spore. And we welcome him and give him a work pass, no question asked.

hmmm... the case i know of is opposite. guy renounced PR-ship when it was time to do NS, thereafter married Singaporean, wanted to come back to live here, was willing to DO NS, but ICA rejected. don't think he even got a work permit.

both very highly educated. now both living abroad.

Hm.. may be the policy has sinced been changed ? my case happened in 2003. or may be yr friend hadnt found a job, so did not have a company to apply work pass for him ?

[absolut_vodka]

That’s why I suggested looking at the parents citizenship. The child(ren) simply follow the parents wherever they go. Not like its up to them. The parents, however, have their own agenda. Whether its one retaining their original citizenship while the other converts to SG to get the ‘benefits’. And this even applies to our nearest and closest neighbors - Malaysia. Many come here to study and work with every intention to move back to Malaysia with a higher purchasing power.

[concern2]

3Boys:

concern2:

3) The influx of foreigners who want a place in Singapore public school - they have too little chance of getting a place in the current system.

I want to talk about Point 3. Isn't it possible that the in the attempt to attract more immigrants into our country, our garmen need to make room for them in our society - giving them more chance into our schools being one of them?


Has it occurred to you that the queries could be from foreigners (rather than our own people), and that relooking into the registration is really to favor foreigners - to retain the rich?

See, Alumnis are naturally majority Singaporeans - right? Without these Alumnis, more spaces will be freed for all - Singaporeans or non-Singaporeans, right?
Yes, perhaps more Singaporeans will benefit from the change, but if distance is really going to be the key factor of consideration, then perhaps it suits the garmen - and foreigners more since, ultimately, property prices around the popular schools will go up and possibly, only the rich and wealthy will be able to afford. This, is going to worsen the divide, not narrowing it (divide here referring to the gap between the elite and the common people).

Of course the alumni thing is political, it takes an school admissions advantage from one group, and gives it to another, how can it not be?

The foreigner factor? I was just waiting to see how it took to surface....

The next few paragraphs are speaking in general, not meant to impute anything about your intentions, but since you called my attention to this, I am replying to your post.

As typical for these types of discussions, one group (pro-alumni), seeking to bolster its position, now invokes the familiar bogeyman, the much dreaded FOREIGNER. Much the way Malaysian politicians blame everything on Singapore, and Iran blames everything on Israel and the USA. Want to score points at the elections, take an anti-foreigner position. Just the same here.

To call this a foreigner plot to usurp rightful 'true-blue' Singaporeans places in schools is to ignore the facts and realities and a real affront to the many Singaporeans who are feel unfairly disadvantaged by this policy. The proportion of 'new' foreign students is likely to be around 5% (according to my guesstimate), only 1 in 20. So using this measure meant to exclude one foreigner would impact 19 other Singaporeans. Like performing surgery with a chain saw. What kind of policy making is that?

I will have to exclude it out of hand, does not make any sense. Should not be used as a smokescreen to influence the discussion around alumni priority.

Thanks, 3Boys, for sharing your perspective.

As mentioned before in this thread, I am not for any alumni nor against, hence my point isn't really about supporting it. If points are allotted based on arguments for or against, this certainly add points to 'for' Alumni. That wasn't my intention of raising.

My first response was to agree with the notion of doing away, since it makes things 'fairer' for all 'true-blue Singaporeans'. However, as I explore the likely consequences, I am rather, on the fence about this issue.

Perhaps casting doubts to what I read may be more like it, since I am addressing the article that ksi has posted.

Yes, indeed, I will be glad if the final outcome remains that the entrance to Primary school at point of registration is not an alternative route of opening its doors to foreigners, which will limit further the chance of a Singaporean citizen getting a place in school of his/her choice. I am in for a fairer system for all Singaporeans. And I agree, it is not an easy task.

absolut_vodka:

If the ministers want to convince us that all schools are the same, then they should prove to us by putting their own children/grandchildren into neighbourhood schools that are not popular.

I was formerly from one of the top all gals school and to be honest, though I love my school and all that it has provided for me, I am half-hearted to send my dd there due to the distance. Obviously, there will be some willing to trade places with me since it's definitely not an easy school to get into. I spent a good 11years (coz there used to be pre-primary available for enrollment) waking up at 5am to go to school and on some days only get home after the sun sets due to CCA or extra lessons and I can't imagine putting my dd through the whole agony. However, the schools around the vicinity of where I stay are all popular schools which are impossible to get in if I don't do something. The nearest one is even outside of 1km.

And to make matters worse, my hb's primary school has already closed down and that means for my ds (the younger one), I eventually will have to do something.

I realized after reading through the couple of related threads that there will be no pleasing everyone. Every current scheme has its pros and cons but it's not fair to one group or another.

So I asked dh what is his ideal registration process would look like, given that he has no links that he can use to get our kids into school and this is what he suggested:

1) to combat the low birth rate, local families (meaning citizens) with three or more kids get to select the school of their choice first. Given that education is a concern for many parents, this may well be one way to 'push' couples to have more than 1. This practice was used previously by the Govt. when they were pushing 'stop at two'. Women who were willing to undergo ligation procedures to stop at two were given priority in school selection. I remember one minister saying that education paves the way out of poverty for low income families. If there needs to be a cap on the numbers then maybe 5 km radius from their existing residence since that would 'enlarge' the pool of schools available for selection.

2) next phase would be for local families with two or more kids as above.

3) followed up balloting for SG citizens with one child. If there is a need to further differentiate locally born and bred citizens from new citizens, then one more ballot should be given to those whose fathers have served NS as a further recognition of the sacrifice made. Once the citizens have been admitted, the remaining spaces can be opened up to PRs and foreigners for balloting.

This is essentially a 'Singaporeans First' policy. Remember that we do not have a choice. We were borned here and so are our kids and so they must have first priority. PRs as we can see in many instances, do not regard themselves as Locals. Many use SG as a stepping stone to go elsewhere and they can give up their PR status anytime the situation looks less favorable to them. And they have the option to enrol into international schools - an option not available to locals. Same with the foreigners. Many opt for our local schools due to the cost concern.

This registration will even out the playing field. No more alumni/old boy/old gal priority, no issues of property prices escalating further around popular schools, no more exploiting poor parents precious time doing PV. The only downside I can think of, would be couples who have trouble conceiving. For those, it's off-topic here but govt can do more to fund fertility treatment since these are people who are willing to have children but are unable to. Unfortunately, for these individuals, I have to say that there has to be a cut-off age to qualify since it is medically proven that egg quality deteriorates as the women age.

I think this system will incentivize more to carry on having more than 1 child, more so than the measly $4k baby bonus that we get now, or the dollar for dollar matching in CDA (since many poor families aren't able to come out with the monies to put into the CDA a/c to begin with).

:goodpost: Although,....it does seem somewhat 'unfair' to those who 'tried their best' already (at conceiving more. :faint: )