Bi-lingualism at school a mistake ?
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insider:
I agree. Even the teachers use Singlish in schools. So if the children are not taught grammar as a foundation, it is not easy to produce children who can speak proper English.I don't really like the way English is being taught in some schools now (and I can't say 'many schools' but my hunch is most of them) as teachers skip the teaching of much of grammar components and they expect children to know... (kids, even from English speaking families, go to school with different level of English standard and it is just not fair for teachers to assume they 'should' know.)
Being fun is good but at what cost and at whose expense are the questions. In terms of learning, new generation kids generally can't compare to the older generation ones in terms of the ability to swallow difficulties squarely and move on without wailing 'help help help'... -
I also don’t think we should start teaching HYPY at P1. It should be introduced at a later stage as a tool to use the dictionary. I am not sure about your kids but mine often try to read the HYPY in books instead of trying to recognise the characters.
With so much emphasis on HYPY in P1 & 2, the children learn very few Chinese characters in P1 & 2. So it becomes rather difficult for them to write compo in P3, especially for those schools which do not offer Higher Chinese prior to P5 and the parents who do not speak Chinese.
And correct me if I am wrong, I notice that there is very little emphasis on stroke sequence in primary school nowadays. I often have to tell my children that they have written the characters correctly but in the wrong manner! -
I am one of those who rely heavily on HYPY to read any chinese articles. I come from a family that speak mainly English and Teochew and the Peranakan dialect which is a mix of malay and hokkien. Both my parents did not learn chinese when they were in school, they were taught malay instead. So needless to say, we had very little exposure to the language.
I aced my english and literature and I managed to pass my chinese exams. I have no problems speaking or understanding Mandarin but I have problems reading and writing. More so now since I left school decades ago. My chinese composition used to have a fair bit of HYPY in it cos I cannot remember how to write the characters. My teachers will always comment that I score on content and use of idioms but fail on character recognition and writing. :oops: Till today, I can do 绕口令 though not as fast as I could when I was in school but I can stare for 5mins at my K2 girl's 听写 list and draw a blank.
Someone mentioned that others think that Singaporean's English and Chinese are not that good. I however have heard from many foreign friends and business associates that they are pretty impressed with our grasp of the language, be it English or Chinese especially when these 2 languages are not our native tongue to begin with. Yes, English is suppose to be our first language but compared to Britain, our history with this language is still in its infancy. Coupled with that, each dialect group will bring into the language their own inflection and that's how you get the Singlish and same goes for Chinese, you get Singnese. Heheh.
Though our command of the languages may not be considered pure, but to a certain extent, I think the emergence of Singlish and our version of Chinese is shows our unique identity. Who knows, a few hundred years down the road, the world might recognise Singapore English and Chinese like they do British and American English or Simplified and Traditional Chinese.
As for LKY and his decisions, we have the benefits of 'on hindsight'. He may not have had chosen the best method but at that time who would know. Just as it is now, we won't know if the new revamped method will be the better method. One thing I know, HYPY allows me to type out a chinese essay without having to relearn which key is for what stroke.
Well for my kids, I want them to be able to recognise the chinese characters as well as 拼 them out accurately. -
3Boys:
My P3 dd is going through what you did. Non-mandarin speaking background, no chinese enviroment. Attended all the right Chinese enrichment classes. P1 Higher Chinese, average 95. P2, average 90, P3 now, just barely clinging onto Band 1 around 86. She spends a ridiculous 70% of her time on chinese, leaving just 30% on math, sci and music. It is a tough road ahead of her. Do not underestimate how difficult it is for a strictly non-native chinese speaker to learn that language. My dd is lucky in the sense that she likes the language so there is little resistance to learning it.
I don't have a Chinese speaking background, my folks spoke Teochew as a dialect, and english more pre-dominantly. I started P1 not knowing a single word of Chinese, barely being able to write my name in characters. However, by dint of hard work and natural academic ability, I was able to sustain a good level of Chinese language proficiency early on, aceing the spelling tests and getting good grades on exams. However, as the years wore on, and by P4, without a home-based environment to learn, it was beginning to be a struggle to keep up. At that time, a really dreadful chinese language teacher came into the frame that completely destroyed my interest in the language. I went from a 90%+ scorer to barely passing in a year. The rest of my school career was a chain of chinese language tuition teachers and constant frustration from my parents who couldn't help because they did not know the lingo. -
watmekiasu:
Does she read books regularly? It is important to read for both EL and CL.
My P3 dd is going through what you did. Non-mandarin speaking background, no chinese enviroment. Attended all the right Chinese enrichment classes. P1 Higher Chinese, average 95. P2, average 90, P3 now, just barely clinging onto Band 1 around 86. She spends a ridiculous 70% of her time on chinese, leaving just 30% on math, sci and music. It is a tough road ahead of her. Do not underestimate how difficult it is for a strictly non-native chinese speaker to learn that language. My dd is lucky in the sense that she likes the language so there is little resistance to learning it.
And the difficulty level has to be increased at stages as she moves up the
ladder. Eg. My P1 girl has moved from Robins readers to Junior Picture
books to Junior Simple books, now reading Ladybird mini Classics and Geronimo series.
For Chinese, borrow any JP books from National
Library, all reading the CLIPS supplementary levels (she can manage up
to P3/4 now with guidance).
Generally she reads about 4 to 5 books each for EL & CL every week
during non-exam period. During exam period, average 1 book each week.
Tailor the books to be introduced to your kid according to his/her interest
and level of competency to maintain interest.
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...with regular reading, should not need to spend so much time on
Chinese only. I think for study time, 50% for Math, 50% for Science.
Chinese and English is a ongoing thing. Should only need time to
practice assessment by chapter (for Chinese) and revise spelling.
Anybody else can comment? :?: -
For English, she reads the same type of books as her P3 classmates, namely Harry Potter, Spiderwick, Roman Mysteries etc.
For Chinese, it is CLIPs readers, the "naughty school-boy" reader, Doraemon and another comic series about school teachers (sorry, I cannot even tell you the name of the books cos I am totally illiterate in that language). The main problem is, her low level of chinese does not allow her to read books that interests her like mystery and adventure books.
She also watches chinese dramas, mainly for the mandarin exposure. She loves some of those Jin Yong shows like Legend Of The Condor Heroes, Laughing In The Wind, Tian Long Ba Bu so much, that she has even read the english translation of 2 of these novels. When she finally found a mandarin comic of one of those novels, she tried reading it but threw it away in disgust cos there were just too many words she couldn’t make out. It’s no fun checking into your BESTA every few pages. -
all.in.one:
OMG, is that all the time spent on Mandarin by a normal student? Assessment by chapter can be a 1hr a week thing.
Should only need time to
practice assessment by chapter (for Chinese) and revise spelling.
Anybody else can comment? :?:
My dd's 70% (of her time in learning Chinese) includes a 1.5hrs/wk coaching by a tutor, a 1.5hrs/wk chinese enrichment, homework on assessment books fm tutor and a few episodes of a chinese drama per week. -
Fundamentally its a discussion here between those who are from chinese speaking backgounds and proficient in the language, fighting against the gradual decay of the standards of the language, and those who are not, and have personally struggled or have children who are doing so.
If you are the former, you may never understand what a struggle it is for the latter. LKY experienced it himself, where his own sons, academically brilliant as they were, applying themselves fully, never ever excelled and even struggled with the language. I faced the same issue, and despite my best efforts, I fear the same for my children. This is the reality, Chinese is a very difficult language to learn if you are not immersed in it. English is far easier, it doesn’t even compare. As watmekiasu illustrated, its actually a competitive DISadvantage already, her DD spending 70% of her time doing ONE subject, and I believe it.
So pardon if I take a very functional view of this. Would I like to be proficient in Chinese? Absolutely, and I had taken a good hard stab at it for the better part of 12 years. And I believe the MOE has taken the same view, functional competency.
Its not as if I have no regard for chinese culture. My grandparents were immigrants from China, we spoke Teochew in the home, not mandarin, we celebrated CNY like everyone else, held weddings the chinese way, speaking Teochew all the way, so MY chinese culture had nothing to do with speaking mandarin, and I do not relate to mandarin speaking as the link to MY culture as a chinese.
Those of you who are passionate about the language, kudos to you and all the best to your efforts. However, do not use the ‘culture’ as a stick to ding others over the head with, or force the issue with MOE. There are several mechanisms in place, including higher mother tongue, for which those proficient in the language may pursue greater challenges. I will encourage my boys to pursue that dream, but I am not betting on it happening. -
all.in.one:
Not my experience, and I was good in school (except for Chinese)....with regular reading, should not need to spend so much time on
Chinese only. I think for study time, 50% for Math, 50% for Science.
Chinese and English is a ongoing thing. Should only need time to
practice assessment by chapter (for Chinese) and revise spelling.
Anybody else can comment? :?:
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