Bi-lingualism at school a mistake ?
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I think Chinese is ‘difficult to learn’ bcos we only have 1 Chinese lesson while the rest of the subjects are in English. If u r not strong in English, u will struggle with Maths, Science & other subjects as they req some level of understanding. But if u flung Chinese, u just flung 1 subject
I took CL1 (now called higher chinese) at O levels and didn’t take Chinese again at A levels & above. I still speak Mandarin at home, at work etc, but when it comes to work-related Chinese terms, I’m totally lost. I used to be able to write articles to be published in newspapers & magazines when I was in sec school, but now, I can’t even write a paragraph without the help of hanyu pinyin, dictionary etc.
how how? how to expect my children to be good in Chinese? My N1 son told me he learnt the chinese strokes 横竖撇捺 in school. but when he wrote it, he said ‘across’, ‘down’. I was wondering if they r teaching them the chinese strokes in English too? help help! -
karmeleon:
I've just compared the 2004 and 2008 P3A HCL textbks. In the former, the entire chinese text is accompanied by HYPY, in rather big print. In the current book, only newly introduced words have accompanying HYPY in small print.
Not exactly true. My daughter was in p1 9 years ago. It's exactly the same system as now as far as HYPY is concerned. HYPY solely for 1st 2 terms.
According to dd's previous tutor, the current syllabus is also easier. There is a lot of repetition of words and less introduction of new words per level. -
jedamum:
I don't know if they still have this but my then 3yo dd was at Berries for 1 yr for their daily (Mon to Fri) class. Berries was great but their admin wasn't. Anyway, most of us liked their special daily classes so much we asked them to consider doing it for Nursery level. They wanted to double the fees for an extra 1/2hr per day. :roll:
OT, but when did you stop her berries? -
watmekiasu:
i don't think they have the mon-fri class anymore...at least i'm not aware of it.... the most is twice a week now for nursery level.
I don't know if they still have this but my then 3yo dd was at Berries for 1 yr for their daily (Mon to Fri) class. Berries was great but their admin wasn't. Anyway, most of us liked their special daily classes so much we asked them to consider doing it for Nursery level. They wanted to double the fees for an extra 1/2hr per day. :roll:
and the admin of my boy's centre is pretty good...pretty....and good...lolz. :lol: -
tamarind:
When LKY's sons were very very young, he engaged private tutors for them! Both Chinese & Malay. And the Malay tutor commanded the boys to go and play with the kampong kids! Read it in a newspaper article some years back.
When LKY and his sons were young, there were no enrichment schools like Berries. If he and his sons had attended Berries since 3 years old, they would have excelled in the language with ease given their intelligence. -
watmekiasu:
Oh, I wasn't talking about the textbook, but the fact that HYPY is taught for 1st 2 terms in p1 only. That practice has been around for at least 10 years, if not more, I'd think.
I've just compared the 2004 and 2008 P3A HCL textbks. In the former, the entire chinese text is accompanied by HYPY, in rather big print. In the current book, only newly introduced words have accompanying HYPY in small print.karmeleon:
Not exactly true. My daughter was in p1 9 years ago. It's exactly the same system as now as far as HYPY is concerned. HYPY solely for 1st 2 terms.
According to dd's previous tutor, the current syllabus is also easier. There is a lot of repetition of words and less introduction of new words per level.
I don't find current syllabus easier, but maybe it's due to the school. The textbook might be easier, but the assessment(exam standard) is rather deep. One of my boys in upper primary will be under the new syllabus. I've noticed that since he was in p3, the exam difficulty seem to have edged upwards, since highest marks for the exams since seem to be only around 80+ to low 90 marks, as compared to my older kids' time (same school) where highest marks for cohort can be in the high 90s to 100 even for upper primary. -
Lower marks could be due to greater weightage for Oral and Compo.
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3Boys:
It favours the natural English-speakers who have to work with much less to get a decent result in Chinese. Contrast that with the non-English speakers thathave to work much harder to get a decent result in English and its related subjects.
I disagree. Why should it seek to favour one group or dis-favour another? The way I see, its really a need to drive to a higher level of English competency as compared to MT, due to 1) Realities of global business environment, and 2) Establishing the primacy of a neutral language as lingua franca amongst S'poreans to avoid issues of communalism.Philosophical_Anarchist:
I see bilingualism in Singapore as a policy that favours those from real English-speaking families - those that are able to pronounce red, flour and abalone properly.
Chinese vocabulary to be taught in Pri School =Fixed amount
English vocabulary to be taught in Pri School = Everything under the sun
In primary school, a poor command of English will hinder you in both Maths and Science. A poor command of Chinese will only get you a poor
result in one subject.
In secondary school, Chinese is of even less importance as you can get into a JC without using your Chinese score at all. However, those who are weak in English will have to struggle with EL, Eng Lit and the respective humanities.
The bilingual policy clearly favours the English speakers because the burden of learning is less for them. If there is equal emphasis on both languages, why then do we not have a GEP test for Mother Tongue?
Are we looking for those who are gifted in languages? Or just those who are gifted in English?
At the end of the day, we usually end up with three products of such a system.
1. The natural English speaker from an English-speaking family who can't speak Chinese to save his life
2. The bilingual speaker who is a jack of all trades but master of none. He think he's speaking English but in reality, his diction and pronunciation are quite inaccurate.
3. The semilingual speaker who is unable to master his MT or English. A sad product who mixes English and Chinese (Or MT) in his sentences. -
Philosophical_Anarchist:
Ask yourself, what is the reality in modern day Singapore. Native Chinese speakers who are hindered in their ability to learn Math and Science, or native English speakers who commit excessive amounts of time to cover their bases in Chinese? What you fail to consider is that the difficulty in learning Chinese and English is not equal. Look at the threads on Chinese and English enrichment in this forum, 35+ pages for the former and less than 7 in aggregate for the latter. Whatever your theories about fixed amount vs everything under the sun, which do you think is presenting the greater challenge in general, Chinese or English? And you are confusing favouritism for the sake of a language with what is a deliberate policy of setting forth the primacy of English as the language of business and lingua-franca amongst diverse ethnicities. In that context, why on Earth have a GEP test in mother tongue?It favours the natural English-speakers who have to work with much less to get a decent result in Chinese. Contrast that with the non-English speakers thathave to work much harder to get a decent result in English and its related subjects.
Chinese vocabulary to be taught in Pri School =Fixed amount
English vocabulary to be taught in Pri School = Everything under the sun
In primary school, a poor command of English will hinder you in both Maths and Science. A poor command of Chinese will only get you a poor
result in one subject.
In secondary school, Chinese is of even less importance as you can get into a JC without using your Chinese score at all. However, those who are weak in English will have to struggle with EL, Eng Lit and the respective humanities.
The bilingual policy clearly favours the English speakers because the burden of learning is less for them. If there is equal emphasis on both languages, why then do we not have a GEP test for Mother Tongue?
Are we looking for those who are gifted in languages? Or just those who are gifted in English?
I don't think your contention is borne out at all by the situation on the ground, and I see nothing, even if empirical, put forth to support it. -
The following message is not directed at any one person, but to all parents reading this thread.
I often stood outside my kids' class at Berries, and observed other kids doing their worksheets. Almost all of the kids are able to do their work independently and with ease, with the exception of 1 or 2 kids who are new. The standard at Berries is very high. All kids who started in Berries from 3 or 4 years old, have no problem following up when they reach K1 and K2. Most of these kids are from English speaking families. It is a misconception that Chinese is difficult to learn.
Those who complain difficulties in learning Chinese have most likely missed the \"window of opportunity\". Kids are capable of learning any language(s) from birth to 6 years old. The earlier they start, the easier it will be. Ideally parents should start to read Chinese books everyday to their babies from a few months old. Kids from non-Chinese speaking families must start attending enrichment classes like Berries from 3 years old, and no later than 4 years old. At least 15 minutes must be spent revising the Berries materials everyday. If parents are not able to revise the Chinese with kids, then the child must attend a daily pre-school where at least 3 hours are devoted to Chinese lessons.
If the correct methods are used, learning any language will be easy. If parents do not understand what are the correct methods, then learning any language is difficult. For example, I struggled with English all the way to A levels because MOE teachers (during my time) did not use effective methods to teach English to kids from non-English speaking families.
However, if parents want their kids to get top marks in Higher Chinese, then of course it is going to be difficult and attending Berries until K2 is definitely not enough. If you want your child to do that well, then doing hundreds of assessment books is not enough. The child must learn to love the language, she must know all the history, geography, literature of China, and she must admire the Chinese culture enough to be self motivated to learn the language.
My parents never had any formal education. They taught themselves to be able to speak Mandarin and read Chinese newspapers, but they were not good enough to give me any help after I was in P3. However, thanks to my Chinese dictionary, I was able to excel in the Chinese language all the way to A levels. I was very self motivated to learn Chinese.
Kids are heavily influenced by their parents. Parents who do not admire the Chinese culture, who keep thinking that Chinese is difficult to learn, will naturally influence their kids to think the same way too. Then do not expect your kids to excel in Higher Chinese, lower your expectations. For Chinese as a second language, it is very easy to pass and not difficult at all to get C or above, and kids who fail are most likely those who are influenced by their parents to hate the Chinese language.
I have been teaching my kids to memorize and recite Tang poetry since 3 years old, without the use of hanyu pinyin. I pasted many Tang poems on the walls of their bedroom, so that they can grow up surrounded by the Chinese characters. My older girl, now 6 years old, has learned to love the beauty of the Chinese characters. When she is free, she copies the Tang poetry, and she likes to write short stories of 3 to 4 sentences in Chinese, all on her own initiatives. My younger boy is also very keen to recite Tang poems, following his sister's example. We do not converse in Mandarin at home at all. Kids can be taught to enjoy learning Chinese using the traditional ways.
Parents play a very important in ensuring that learning Chinese is not difficult for their kids.
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