Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)
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Chenonceau:
Yeah...can imagine Edureach driving someone BONKERS!!! :evil:I think I should stop posting before I get too excited and offend people. I think it is a waste of time to post anyway. MOE has had feedback from 2008 in many forms and from people wiser and smarter than I... it doesn't want to change because it is too busy justifying itself to care that a nation's children are hurting.
Nothing against you Edureach... -
Sun_2010:
You are right. Even if it's status quo, I am sure my DS will do well in PSLE. But it's not right even if it works for some of us who can afford ($, time, capability). We voice out because there are many others who can't. Schools should teach all kids well and not pass the responsibility to parents/ tuition/ enrichment because they cannot cope with the current syllabus with their resources (adequate materials, class ratio, ...).
This is the crux of the issue.coast:
Students with access to \"quality\" help/ resources have so much advantages over the have-nots.
We get disheartened because we know there are many kids out there who do not get a fair chance at all even if they are bright.
All these talks and emphasis on social equality by our government and yet MOE does not seem to equate the lack of it in today's education system ...
Many of us here know that changes if any will be too late to impact our children, anyway we are capable of helping out our children. Yet we voice out to tell that this is not meritocracy. A child brighter and more capable than my child will lose out if he doesnt have a mum me to guide him thru. I dont want to do this, but it is a norm that teachers even expect. This system beneifts me since i am capable but sooner or later we have to look at the big picture.
Look at Chen, she will be saying bye bye to PSLE soon, and she perseveres. :salute:
Can the MOE atleast take a confidential feed back from its teachers?
Can they get them to assess how tution/enrichment is being essential, of how it is skewing the picture? if Today can do it, cant MOE? -
OK lets talk about equal opportunities…
Each year in every jc, students are given access to the same materials, consultations and support by their respective teachers. Despite the concerted efforts by each student, thousands still fail to qualify for local unis.
It still boils down to individual’s merit not the school. Academic path is not meant for everyone. As for the selection of schools, many make the mistake of purely going by brand name.
Just work hard and choose the correct school by excercising your wisdom. If goes by this proven method, your kids shall turn out successful whatever the system throws to you. -
Edureach:
You are talking about JC. We are talking about primary school. My DD and your DS are the same age. I have nothing to complain about. She made it throughout without tuition. Her teachers taught her what she needed to know. A Mom just messaged me to ask if i had good secondary school tutors to recommend. I have no idea because DD and her friends didn't have tuition.OK lets talk about equal opportunities...
Each year in every jc, students are given access to the same materials, consultations and support by their respective teachers. Despite the concerted efforts by each student, thousands still fail to qualify for local unis.
It still boils down to individual's merit not the school. Academic path is not meant for everyone. As for the selection of schools, many make the mistake of purely going by brand name.
Just work hard and choose the correct school by excercising your wisdom. If goes by this proven method, your kids shall turn out successful whatever the system throws to you.
Did you have a child go through PSLE since 2008?
I feel sure that if my experience was limited to DD's PSLE, 'O' levels and 'A' levels I would think like you and blinkymummy. -
Nebbermind:
X-rated lah you!! :rotflmao:
Yeah...can imagine Edureach driving someone BONKERS!!! :evil:Chenonceau:
I think I should stop posting before I get too excited and offend people. I think it is a waste of time to post anyway. MOE has had feedback from 2008 in many forms and from people wiser and smarter than I... it doesn't want to change because it is too busy justifying itself to care that a nation's children are hurting.
Nothing against you Edureach... -
Hi Chenonceau
My view is psle is a national exam and it also acts as a neutral mechanism to streamline the pupils in the interest of their longterm academic pursuit. Whichever year one sits is totally irrevelant as it is benchmarked against the cohort of the year.
The outcome is relatively fair as all candiates sit for the common exam.
Its not like one candiate needs to sit for a tougher paper and the outcome would be unfair. -
Edureach:
Just because it is a common exam, it is fair? If someone comes from France to take the PSLE having been educated entirely in French and never been exposed to any of the PSLE content, it is fair to him because the PSLE is a common exam? Common exam = Fair? There seems to be a gap in your logic.Hi Chenonceau
My view is psle is a national exam and it also acts as a neutral mechanism to streamline the pupils in the interest of their longterm academic pursuit. Whichever year one sits is totally irrevelant as it is benchmarked against the cohort of the year.
The outcome is relatively fair as all candiates sit for the common exam.
Its not like one candiate needs to sit for a tougher paper and the outcome would be unfair.
Assuming no tuition, children from a school that teaches up to 80% of the challenge of the PSLE are on a level playing as children from a school that teaches up to 120% of the challenge of the PSLE jus because it is the same exam?
The PSLE is a common exam but that doesn't mean the system is fair. Again you have confused 2 very different ideas. Same exam doesn't mean a fair education.
What about having a quality of teaching common across all schools? That plays no part in fairness? Quality of teaching at primary level is not important?
A bright child in a school that teaches little and tests little has JUST as much chance to do well in PSLE as one from a school that teaches lots and tests a lot? You keep repeating that schools don't matter. In primary school, schools matter a lot. Quality of teaching matter a lot because the children are young and more dependent. In JC, a self-driven learner will manage somehow. In primary, parents/tutors need to help if schools fail to teach what is needed to pass exams.
Primary schools take in children of all ability levels. There is a random distribution of children. The differences in school performance (NYPS produces 40% of kids scoring above 250) is due to school quality, NOT child quality.
You have confused primary and secondary education. My question still is \"Did you have a child take PSLE since 2008?\" If not, your experience is outdated and you will never understand what we are facing now. Of course, there are parents whose kids went to schools that taught well and tested hard. Those too won't understand what it feels like to have to personally teach a bright child whose school tests hard but fails to teach what it tests. -
Chenonceau
The quality of teachers are evenly distributed to all popular and non popular schools. What makes a child able to score 250 and above is the inate ability, home support from the parents and above all the kid’s determination and preserverance to succeed
Psle is only the first stage and parents here should not be overly concern at this juncture if their kids score below that.
The main exams are their poly gpa. IB and A-levels. That’s just too much emphasis on psle here which is not the best indicator of academic success.
One outstanding example, if based on psle t- score, all students having the score of above 240 are expected to make it to unis. In reality, its far from truth as many did not make it and many below had made it.
In conclusion, the system is still fair though far from perfect. -
Edureach:
The quality of teachers are evenly distributed to all popular and non popular schools. What makes a child able to score 250 and above is the inate ability, home support from the parents and above all the kid's determination and preserverance to succeed
There is only ONE Principal per school. Principal calibre situates along the bell curve? Not all Principals are same calibre? If you are in a school with a lousy Principal, then no matter how good the teachers, the school still provides poor quality.
My son has the innate ability and the drive. Unfortunately, his school produces few notes. Left alone, my poor boy had only the textbook to study. My son is very determined. I will be travelling in June and July for 3 weeks very close to his PSLE. He has already planned his study schedule and I know from experience that he will get it done. He is confident and determined.
This same boy did very badly before I started to teach him myself. I don't provide just SUPPORT like my parents used to do. I provide ACADEMIC support. He is now top in class in 3 subjects (or amongst the top). Why should I have to teach him myself? The school should teach him. My son has both determination and ability. Why couldn't he score? Because I denied him tuition... and I still do, even though I teach him myself.Edureach:
If you score below a certain threshold, it will be difficult to even get to take 'A' levels or IB unless as a private candidate in another country. If you've experienced failure since P4, it would be very miraculous that you will get to poly with academic self-efficacy intact and still determined to do well. Even the most determined children will give up if they have been taught they're lousy by every report card since P4 (and all because they're tested on what tutors/parents are expected to teach... and these poor little ones didn't have the high calibre tutors/parents).Psle is only the first stage and parents here should not be overly concern at this juncture if their kids score below that.
The main exams are their poly gpa. IB and A-levels. That's just too much emphasis on psle here which is not the best indicator of academic success.Edureach:
Again, we are not talking about eventual entrance to unis. Anyone can go to uni in Singapore because there is UniSIM. Yes... that is good. It still doesn't mean the system is fair.One outstanding example, if based on psle t- score, all students having the score of above 240 are expected to make it to unis. In reality, its far from truth as many did not make it and many below had made it.
In conclusion, the system is still fair though far from perfect.
I definitely agree the system is not perfect. Specifically, in primary school, the standards expected of our kids are way beyond what the teachers can manage to teach. Hence, those who do well and have their paths smoothed are those with tuition or are lucky enough to be in those rare primary schools that conscientiously teach high and test high.
I am pleased that you actually concede that the system is far from perfect. I don't think it is a rotten system. I merely think that if the MOE wants to boast about its high standards then it should teach better in many more schools, than just those few. Many schools (some branded ones) cannot keep up a standard of teaching quality in line with the standards the PSLE expects of our kids.
It's very specific and the lack of fairness is on THIS specific point - no one is commenting on access to uni. -
Chenonceau wrote :
You have confused primary and secondary education. My question still is "Did you have a child take PSLE since 2008?" If not, your experience is outdated and you will never understand what we are facing now. Of course, there are parents whose kids went to schools that taught well and tested hard. Those too won’t understand what it feels like to have to personally teach a bright child whose school tests hard but fails to teach what it tests.
Very valid point indeed ! In addition, those who have not seen p6 Maths textbooks or PSLE Maths questions and do not know much about the new "Teach less, learn more" culture in school ,kindly find out more first before shooting their arguments. MOE will think that there is indeed NO Problem cos these people who based on their prior school experience decades ago said so !
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