Primary school maths: A vicious circle (from TODAY May 8)

[Edureach]

coast:

Edureach:

Chenonceau


Whether a student study in top schools or neighbourhood schools do not mean anything at this juncture. Eventually all take the same 0 and A-levels exams. That's no such thing as a certificate awarded by a top school is more recognised than another even by our unis.

At the end of the day, it depends on individual merits than the schools.

It matters. What is the average grade of top schools Vs neighbourhood schools in O levels? What is the average grade of top JCs Vs other schools in A levels?

It boils down to the high quality of students intake by top schools. There's so far no concrete evidence that a high O-level scorer does better in a top jc as oppossed to studying in a mid-tier jc.

[Sun_2010]

coast:

Students with access to \"quality\" help/ resources have so much advantages over the have-nots.

We get disheartened because we know there are many kids out there who do not get a fair chance at all even if they are bright.

All these talks and emphasis on social equality by our government and yet MOE does not seem to equate the lack of it in today's education system ...

This is the crux of the issue.

Many of us here know that changes if any will be too late to impact our children, anyway we are capable of helping out our children. Yet we voice out to tell that this is not meritocracy. A child brighter and more capable than my child will lose out if he doesnt have a mum me to guide him thru. I dont want to do this, but it is a norm that teachers even expect. This system beneifts me since i am capable but sooner or later we have to look at the big picture.

Look at Chen, she will be saying bye bye to PSLE soon, and she perseveres. :salute:

Can the MOE atleast take a confidential feed back from its teachers?
Can they get them to assess how tution/enrichment is being essential, of how it is skewing the picture? if Today can do it, cant MOE?

[coast]

Edureach:

coast:

[quote=\"Edureach\"]Chenonceau


Whether a student study in top schools or neighbourhood schools do not mean anything at this juncture. Eventually all take the same 0 and A-levels exams. That's no such thing as a certificate awarded by a top school is more recognised than another even by our unis.

At the end of the day, it depends on individual merits than the schools.

It matters. What is the average grade of top schools Vs neighbourhood schools in O levels? What is the average grade of top JCs Vs other schools in A levels?

It boils down to the high quality of students intake by top schools. There's so far no concrete evidence that a high O-level scorer does better in a top jc as oppossed to studying in a mid-tier jc.[/quote]So we agree that top schools do matter (for O levels). Then how do students get into top sec schools? Primarily PSLE, right? Then it is back to:-

Students with access to \"quality\" help/ resources have so much advantages over the have-nots.

[Nebbermind]

Chenonceau:

I think I should stop posting before I get too excited and offend people. I think it is a waste of time to post anyway. MOE has had feedback from 2008 in many forms and from people wiser and smarter than I... it doesn't want to change because it is too busy justifying itself to care that a nation's children are hurting.


Nothing against you Edureach...

Yeah...can imagine Edureach driving someone BONKERS!!! :evil:

[coast]

Sun_2010:

coast:

Students with access to \"quality\" help/ resources have so much advantages over the have-nots.

We get disheartened because we know there are many kids out there who do not get a fair chance at all even if they are bright.

All these talks and emphasis on social equality by our government and yet MOE does not seem to equate the lack of it in today's education system ...

This is the crux of the issue.

Many of us here know that changes if any will be too late to impact our children, anyway we are capable of helping out our children. Yet we voice out to tell that this is not meritocracy. A child brighter and more capable than my child will lose out if he doesnt have a mum me to guide him thru. I dont want to do this, but it is a norm that teachers even expect. This system beneifts me since i am capable but sooner or later we have to look at the big picture.

Look at Chen, she will be saying bye bye to PSLE soon, and she perseveres. :salute:

Can the MOE atleast take a confidential feed back from its teachers?
Can they get them to assess how tution/enrichment is being essential, of how it is skewing the picture? if Today can do it, cant MOE?

You are right. Even if it's status quo, I am sure my DS will do well in PSLE. But it's not right even if it works for some of us who can afford ($, time, capability). We voice out because there are many others who can't. Schools should teach all kids well and not pass the responsibility to parents/ tuition/ enrichment because they cannot cope with the current syllabus with their resources (adequate materials, class ratio, ...).

[Edureach]

OK lets talk about equal opportunities…


Each year in every jc, students are given access to the same materials, consultations and support by their respective teachers. Despite the concerted efforts by each student, thousands still fail to qualify for local unis.

It still boils down to individual’s merit not the school. Academic path is not meant for everyone. As for the selection of schools, many make the mistake of purely going by brand name.

Just work hard and choose the correct school by excercising your wisdom. If goes by this proven method, your kids shall turn out successful whatever the system throws to you.

[Chenonceau]

Edureach:

OK lets talk about equal opportunities...


Each year in every jc, students are given access to the same materials, consultations and support by their respective teachers. Despite the concerted efforts by each student, thousands still fail to qualify for local unis.

It still boils down to individual's merit not the school. Academic path is not meant for everyone. As for the selection of schools, many make the mistake of purely going by brand name.

Just work hard and choose the correct school by excercising your wisdom. If goes by this proven method, your kids shall turn out successful whatever the system throws to you.

You are talking about JC. We are talking about primary school. My DD and your DS are the same age. I have nothing to complain about. She made it throughout without tuition. Her teachers taught her what she needed to know. A Mom just messaged me to ask if i had good secondary school tutors to recommend. I have no idea because DD and her friends didn't have tuition.

Did you have a child go through PSLE since 2008?

I feel sure that if my experience was limited to DD's PSLE, 'O' levels and 'A' levels I would think like you and blinkymummy.

[Chenonceau]

Nebbermind:

Chenonceau:

I think I should stop posting before I get too excited and offend people. I think it is a waste of time to post anyway. MOE has had feedback from 2008 in many forms and from people wiser and smarter than I... it doesn't want to change because it is too busy justifying itself to care that a nation's children are hurting.


Nothing against you Edureach...

Yeah...can imagine Edureach driving someone BONKERS!!! :evil:

X-rated lah you!! :rotflmao:

[Edureach]

Hi Chenonceau



My view is psle is a national exam and it also acts as a neutral mechanism to streamline the pupils in the interest of their longterm academic pursuit. Whichever year one sits is totally irrevelant as it is benchmarked against the cohort of the year.

The outcome is relatively fair as all candiates sit for the common exam.

Its not like one candiate needs to sit for a tougher paper and the outcome would be unfair.

[Chenonceau]

Edureach:

Hi Chenonceau



My view is psle is a national exam and it also acts as a neutral mechanism to streamline the pupils in the interest of their longterm academic pursuit. Whichever year one sits is totally irrevelant as it is benchmarked against the cohort of the year.

The outcome is relatively fair as all candiates sit for the common exam.

Its not like one candiate needs to sit for a tougher paper and the outcome would be unfair.

Just because it is a common exam, it is fair? If someone comes from France to take the PSLE having been educated entirely in French and never been exposed to any of the PSLE content, it is fair to him because the PSLE is a common exam? Common exam = Fair? There seems to be a gap in your logic.

Assuming no tuition, children from a school that teaches up to 80% of the challenge of the PSLE are on a level playing as children from a school that teaches up to 120% of the challenge of the PSLE jus because it is the same exam?

The PSLE is a common exam but that doesn't mean the system is fair. Again you have confused 2 very different ideas. Same exam doesn't mean a fair education.

What about having a quality of teaching common across all schools? That plays no part in fairness? Quality of teaching at primary level is not important?

A bright child in a school that teaches little and tests little has JUST as much chance to do well in PSLE as one from a school that teaches lots and tests a lot? You keep repeating that schools don't matter. In primary school, schools matter a lot. Quality of teaching matter a lot because the children are young and more dependent. In JC, a self-driven learner will manage somehow. In primary, parents/tutors need to help if schools fail to teach what is needed to pass exams.

Primary schools take in children of all ability levels. There is a random distribution of children. The differences in school performance (NYPS produces 40% of kids scoring above 250) is due to school quality, NOT child quality.

You have confused primary and secondary education. My question still is \"Did you have a child take PSLE since 2008?\" If not, your experience is outdated and you will never understand what we are facing now. Of course, there are parents whose kids went to schools that taught well and tested hard. Those too won't understand what it feels like to have to personally teach a bright child whose school tests hard but fails to teach what it tests.