Suspect my maid has hp, advice needed
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I think people are taking my comment the wrong way. What I am trying to say is that I don’t believe we have the right to tell them to not have a hp at all. We can put restrictions on when they use it, in the same way that my boss could if she wanted but to ban them completely just in case they misuse it is not fair.
Some of them get into trouble but most of them don’t. If one of your co-workers spent all day on her hp at work causing all of you to be banned from using your hp in the office, how would you feel? And if we ban them completely we are not just talking about during working hours; we are talking about 24/7. They are entitled to a life outside your household. -
Thank you very much. I am sure you will agree that our discussion is easier for others to follow
nms1:
OK. Here goes.
1 Even when they agree in their contract not to have one? We do have to face the reality that they will have one? So what are you saying?
What I am saying is the reality is that many of them already have a hp or want one so what are we achieving by trying to ban it. Let's face the reality beforehand and figure out a way to keep both sides happy.
You are avoiding the issue again. When their contract say no hp you encouraging them to sneak one in because to you the reality is that they will have one? Should they not learn to honor what they sign. Go read a couple of posts before our discussion and one maid sneak in not one but two and you advocate such attitude?
2 You seem to have this notion that employers treat their maids as slaves? Why is that so?
I am not saying that all employers do but time & time again on this and other forums I see examples of what I regard as being inappropriate treatment. That is my opinion and others may not see it that way. I do not think they should be banned from having a hp or given no off-days. I do not like the cavalier way in which some employers send maids home. These are just examples.
You introduce the subject of \"slaves\" You are painting employers as employing them as slaves. This was actually unnecessary as we are discussing about maids hand phones. Now you are telling employers that they cannot ban the use of hand phones?
3 Because we do not have the right, they can do it anytime (e.g like the maid whom Lynn2010 saw?) and anywhere they like?
No, I am not saying that at all.Of course they shouldn't be doing that but just because some of them do it doesn't mean that we ban everyone. It's like trying to say that we ban all foreigners from driving because one lunatic in a Ferrari jumps a red light. We need to put it in perspective
Go and read your own post. \"We do not have the right to prevent them from communicating with the outside world.\" You are denying what you say? The maid that Lynn2010 stopped nearly cause the employer,s child to be maimed or killed. And the employer don't have the right to ban or stop the maid from using the hp? What kind of message are you sending? Even if you are pro maid I think this is irresponsible. Would you like it if it was your maid pushing the pram and Lynn was not there. Employers should have the right. It is the maid who will have to be responsible when given the privilege of using a hand phone. Lynn2010 is correct when she said it was an abuse of privilege. Why can't you see this? You are not being fair to the employer who has the kid in the pram by insisting that employers do not have the right. You should be preaching that maids should be more responsible when given privileges. You are barking up the wrong tree.
4 If that is condition of my employment I have a choice to accept it or not accept it. I walk away if I do not accept the conditions
Do you mean that you will accept that condition and then smuggled in your hp and then start clamoring that your boss treat you as a slave (your favorite word) and demand your right as you have been prevented from communicating with people? This is what you seem to be advocating?
Not at all. What I am saying is do they have a choice? If you bring in a maid usually the only things stipulated are the salary and maybe the off-days. Issues such as having hp, curfews, where they sleep, what they eat etc are decided once you meet them. If she doesn't like it, what can she do? Is she going to turn around and go home? Will the agent allow her to turn the employer down?
[color=#800000]Sure they have a choice. They know that they cannot have a phone so they don't take the job.They know about the conditions back home. You are encouraging the maid to flout the contract. Again you seem to be preaching such values and encouraging them?
For me, unless I am desperate for a job I will either negotiate terms, live with it or not take the job. I agree with you. But you are preaching the maid to do differently.
They don't have that choice.[/color]
Come, come they have a choice unless you do not give yours a choice. They are told back home when the employer provide the specs and they can turn down the jobs. Some have gone back after two years because they were not allowed handphone and then waited for employers who allow them handphones in the next contract. These are maids with integrity and should be admired.
5 You do seem to have a hangup that employers are treating their maids as slaves? This is the second time you are using it. Why is this so?
I think I explained this in point 2
You did and I thank you. But you kept harping on it twice that you do seem to have a hangup on this. And the subject of \"slaves\" did not even cone up in the discussion about maids giving problems to their employers. You created the confusion.
I understand that I probably come across as more pro-maid than some others but there are serious flaws in the system. Yes, as employers we have to meet their medical costs, worry about them falling pregnant or getting into other kinds of trouble but there are also many many maids out there who come over to earn a living leaving their families behind and are then not treated fairly. The majority of us here in Singapore are blessed and we are very lucky to even have the option to employer a maid. Sometimes we forget that.
I would advocate that employers treat their maids justly and fairly. I believe most of us do but there are a few black sheep who do not deserve to hire maids. But you seem to paint a larger number of them as employers of slaves. Handphones are a problem because they turn good maids into poor ones (Go read some of earlier posts) Most maids cannot managed the use of the phones and become addicted to them. Maids should learn to be more responsible.
When you champion the rights for maids you should ensure that rights come with responsibilities.
Our wish is that the maids learn to be responsible. Can they do what they have agreed to do in the first place? Can they do it the way employers want it done. Is that too much to ask? -
Maid who endanger the lives of those under their care should be terminated immediately, unless the employer was kept in the dark about her misdeeds.
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nms1:
You are a very strange poster. You blame everyone except yourself for your post. When you cannot express yourself clearly you blame others. Suggest that you think clearly before you post if you do not want others to take your comments the wrong way.I think people are taking my comment the wrong way. What I am trying to say is that I don't believe we have the right to tell them to not have a hp at all. We can put restrictions on when they use it, in the same way that my boss could if she wanted but to ban them completely just in case they misuse it is not fair.
Some of them get into trouble but most of them don't. If one of your co-workers spent all day on her hp at work causing all of you to be banned from using your hp in the office, how would you feel? And if we ban them completely we are not just talking about during working hours; we are talking about 24/7. They are entitled to a life outside your household.
One of the problem I see with your post is that you are unable to respond clearly on what is being discussed and bring in totally inappropriate analogies and confused the issue.
We are talking about problems with maids having handphones and you go and talk about office colleagues! Stick on with maid issues!
You also seems to be arrogant. Who are you to tell employers that they do not have the right to hire a maid without a handphone. Even the Minister does not do that and you are bigger than the Minister?
Just because it your belief you can do it with your own hire. Nobody cares. But you want to impose your belief on others? Other employers may have very valid reasons why they do not want to have a maid without a handphone and you do not respect their beliefs? You only care and talk about your beliefs
Unbelievable -
I am going to bow out from this conversation gracefully as it seems that some people are determined not to see opposing views and just want to stir things up.
When I say that I don't think we have the right to ban a maid from having a hp, that is my opinion. I am not telling you that you what to do, just what I think we should do as employers. We can all draw our own conclusions and make our own decisions.
People come onto discussion boards and forums like this to hear other peoples' view and to get suggestions from them. I am not telling anyone what to do - just what I would do. -
Hiaweh:
Maid who endanger the lives of those under their care should be terminated immediately, unless the employer was kept in the dark about her misdeeds.
Agree with you.
And we have a poster here insisting that employers do not have a right to prevent maids from using the hand phone. It is a privilege given to the maid and the maid should be responsible. But if the maid is using the handphone whilst pushing a pram with the employer's baby in it, that is totally unacceptable. The maid was hired to push the pram not to use the handphone. And she was irresponsible.
And we have this employer preaching that employers does not have the right to prevent the maid from having a hand phone. She does not even care about the employer whose kid was in danger. She is more in sympathy with maids and openly admit that she is pro maid instead of putting herself in the shoes of the employer who did not even know her kid narrowly escape death.
We are here as employers trying to help one another to solve problems created by maids' usage of handphones. -
nms1:
You are not listening. Go and read your own posts and see how arrogant you are. Learn to think clearly before you post the next time and don't blame others for your unclear thinking.I am going to bow out from this conversation gracefully as it seems that some people are determined not to see opposing views and just want to stir things up.
When I say that I don't think we have the right to ban a maid from having a hp, that is my opinion. I am not telling you that you what to do, just what I think we should do as employers. We can all draw our own conclusions and make our own decisions.
People come onto discussion boards and forums like this to hear other peoples' view and to get suggestions from them. I am not telling anyone what to do - just what I would do.
It is all right to have a different opinion but don't throw your beliefs on others. -
nms1:
You'll notice that there are many newly created accounts who are only active in the Domestic threads and they are speak the same way - imposing their opinions right into other people's face and if you don't agree with them, well, they turn hostile as you've experienced.I am going to bow out from this conversation gracefully as it seems that some people are determined not to see opposing views and just want to stir things up.
When I say that I don't think we have the right to ban a maid from having a hp, that is my opinion. I am not telling you that you what to do, just what I think we should do as employers. We can all draw our own conclusions and make our own decisions.
People come onto discussion boards and forums like this to hear other peoples' view and to get suggestions from them. I am not telling anyone what to do - just what I would do.
Seems that some people believe that there's only and then, only one solution to every problem. Steering away from them is certainly a wise thing to do.
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FQW:
Agree.
You'll notice that there are many newly created accounts who are only active in the Domestic threads and they are speak the same way - imposing their opinions right into other people's face and if you don't agree with them, well, they turn hostile as you've experienced.nms1:
I am going to bow out from this conversation gracefully as it seems that some people are determined not to see opposing views and just want to stir things up.
When I say that I don't think we have the right to ban a maid from having a hp, that is my opinion. I am not telling you that you what to do, just what I think we should do as employers. We can all draw our own conclusions and make our own decisions.
People come onto discussion boards and forums like this to hear other peoples' view and to get suggestions from them. I am not telling anyone what to do - just what I would do.
Seems that some people believe that there's only and then, only one solution to every problem. Steering away from them is certainly a wise thing to do.
The arrogant ones would like to impose their values on others -
FQW:
Yes, I noticed this too.
You'll notice that there are many newly created accounts who are only active in the Domestic threads and they are speak the same way - imposingnms1:
I am going to bow out from this conversation gracefully as it seems that some people are determined not to see opposing views and just want to stir things up.
When I say that I don't think we have the right to ban a maid from having a hp, that is my opinion. I am not telling you that you what to do, just what I think we should do as employers. We can all draw our own conclusions and make our own decisions.
People come onto discussion boards and forums like this to hear other peoples' view and to get suggestions from them. I am not telling anyone what to do - just what I would do.
their opinions right into other people's face and if you don't agree with them, well, they turn hostile as you've experienced.
Seems that some people believe that there's only and then, only one solution to every problem. Steering away from them is certainly a wise thing to do.
What happened to forum etiquette??
Perhaps it's about time the mods start monitoring this thread lest the genuine posters avoid sharing altogether.
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