Real reason behind Singapore’s obsession with tuition

[jtoh]

Chenonceau:

jtoh:

Even though IP students do not sit for the O levels it doesn't mean that their internal exams are not rigorous. And if the students do badly, they will be counseled and retained if necessary. If a student consistently scores a GPA of <3.0 and still thinks that he will do well at A levels without additional effort and continues to cruise along, then he and his parents have some waking up to do.

This is true.

In my experience, students who can't keep up are asked to leave the school and join a school with 'O' levels. This could be why at least one of the IP schools is thinking of starting 'O' level classes too... so that such students don't have to go through the trauma of expulsion. The IP exams also tend to be more difficult for each age group.

This said, I don't think hokkiengirl said anything about the exams being less rigorous.

I know hokkiengirl didn't say IP exams were less rigorous. I wanted to point it out in case there are readers who have the impression that IP exams are walks in the park compared to the O levels.

[Chenonceau]

jtoh:

Chenonceau:

[quote=\"jtoh\"]
Even though IP students do not sit for the O levels it doesn't mean that their internal exams are not rigorous. And if the students do badly, they will be counseled and retained if necessary. If a student consistently scores a GPA of <3.0 and still thinks that he will do well at A levels without additional effort and continues to cruise along, then he and his parents have some waking up to do.

This is true.

In my experience, students who can't keep up are asked to leave the school and join a school with 'O' levels. This could be why at least one of the IP schools is thinking of starting 'O' level classes too... so that such students don't have to go through the trauma of expulsion. The IP exams also tend to be more difficult for each age group.

This said, I don't think hokkiengirl said anything about the exams being less rigorous.

I know hokkiengirl didn't say IP exams were less rigorous. I wanted to point it out in case there are readers who have the impression that IP exams are walks in the park compared to the O levels.[/quote]Point taken... though I think this seems unlikely because of the reputation IP has... and the track record of stellar results at 'A' levels. But yeah... it bears the clarification just in case.

[Chenonceau]

Intermezzo:

verykiasu2010:

yes, the conclusion is :- parents' mindset, not that the schools are all so hopeless, not that all the teachers don't teach, not that all the schools are testing beyond what was taught ....... it is all in the mindset of parents who cannot accept when their kids score lower than the peers. it is really a mindset problem of the parents, too small minded that they cannot accept the fact their kids' scores is just 0.000000001 lower than the next guy in t-score

Bravo ~

i think i just joined the vks2010 fan club...

In my view, the conclusion needs a bit more balance.

It isn't just the parents' mindset, but that the schools are some/many so hopeless, that some/many the teachers don't teach, that some/many the schools are testing beyond what was taught .......

But even if SOME teach badly... it is something to be fixed. You would accept that SOME of your Ichiban Sushi is not fresh?

People who have not had experience with schools that give poor quality education in Singapore should not make sweeping statements about how good the whole system and state that...

verykiasu2010:

all in the mindset of parents who ... too small minded that they cannot accept the fact their kids' scores is just 0.000000001 lower than the next guy in t-score...

I've had experience with both sides of the coin, and find these 2 posts enlightening (and more balanced)...

http://hedgehogcomms.blogspot.sg/2012/06/education-stress-whose-fault.html

http://8percentpa.blogspot.sg/search/label/Education

[Melodies]

Hi Optimistforum,


I am referring to the 'English Language and Intelligence books from the UK, 50s and 60s'. Where can I get those books?

What are the Singaporean assessment books that you find them good ad useful? Care to share?

TIA.

optimistforum:

Hi Melodies

By books, I meant current Singaporean assessment books. Also, English Language and Intelligence books from the UK, 50s and 60s.

[Melodies]

I beg to differ. In the very first place. All those IP schools have already accepted the cream of the top Singapore students. (I dare to say all top SG students are in IP). Of course, those bright and discipline students will do well no matter where you threw them in. There are those that are less discipline but they are bright, they may just cruise and move on to the next level, hence they are not prepared for A level.

verykiasu2010:

Chenonceau:

I don't think hokkiengirl meant to say that IP is useless. She did qualify that it is a path that works well for independent and self-motivated learners... and then she qualified that... \"Tests are mostly internal, so the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level. That is very dangerous, as it means that they are not really prepared for anything at all.\"

that is a very misleading statement. that is why I asked if they are so \"useless\" why then the IP graduates got most of the scholarships and got the most distinctions in H2 and H3 subjects, if the student can actually cruise along in a false state of complacency even if they don't do well, as they will just move on to the next level.

[daisyt]

tuition_czar:

One point to add: if you kept up with local current affairs, you would have seen reports of more IP students taking the IGCSE O levels in private, such that they have something to fall back on if things turn bad.

Yes, true. Dd was asking my advice if she should do so too. My answer is no need. My believe is since one has choosen this path, concentrate, focus and enjoy this path. If the result turn out to be bad, 天无绝人之路，there is always a way out somewhere. I am beginning to get pissed off with the elite system in our education.

[jtoh]

tuition_czar:

One point to add: if you kept up with local current affairs, you would have seen reports of more IP students taking the IGCSE O levels in private, such that they have something to fall back on if things turn bad.

The Straits Time article did point out that students were taking iGCSE O levels for different reasons. Among the reasons given were 1) to see where they stand; 2) to apply to foreign universities; 3) because they were interested in the subjects; and 4) as a fallback.

Also, based on stats given by the British Council which administers the iGCSE exams for private candidates here, of the private students who took the exams with them, only about 40 students were Singaporeans, mostly between the ages of 9 and 20.

So it's not a runaway figure of IP students taking the iGCSE O levels because they're worried they have no qualifications to fall back on.

[cherryc]

vks2010 wrote : ""yes, the conclusion is :- parents’ mindset, not that the schools are all so hopeless, not that all the teachers don’t teach, not that all the schools are testing beyond what was taught … it is all in the mindset of parents who cannot accept when their kids score lower than the peers. it is really a mindset problem of the parents, too small minded that they cannot accept the fact their kids’ scores is just 0.000000001 lower than the next guy in t-score"


Parents’ mindset alone cannot explain why more than 90% of SIngapore students go for tuition on top of their parents teaching them at home. If the disparity of what is being taught in school and what is being actually tested is not that wide, there won’t be much to be tuitioned in the first place.

Furthermore, those who go for tuition to stay at top will not account for more than 10% of these 90% kids cos the majority of them will not get into top 10% no matter how much they are being tuitioned.

Just take a look at p5 or p6 textbooks and then try out the exam papers and probably school notes if any and give us your views after that.

Many factors and policy changes over the years have resulted in today’s education trends and I do hope someone can piece it together and pinpoint what has gone wrong along the way for us to come to this stage where 90% go for tuitions.

I like this quote from Ian Tan in one of his posts :

"And honestly, no offence to anyone who doesn’t have primary school-going kids, but unless you’re in our shoes, it’s very hard to fully emphathize with the situation that we have to deal with on our own terms. There’s no need to prove who’s right or wrong, when the situation is staring at affected parents in the face, and we can only hope to ride it out or change the system ."


For IP, my personal experience is that my niece told me the school has skipped teaching virtually all the sec 1 and sec 2 topics like simultaneous equations as it can be self studied and basically is "too easy". For my sec 3 IP nephew, he is doing JC type of maths and physics so without tuition, they have no guidance at all and they are just 13-15 kids, not independent university students.

[Intermezzo]

Chenonceau:

But even if SOME teach badly... it is something to be fixed. You would accept that SOME of your Ichiban Sushi is not fresh?

er... i really can't agree with this example because i don't see myself and my kids as CUSTOMERS of the school....

[Chenonceau]

Intermezzo:

Chenonceau:

But even if SOME teach badly... it is something to be fixed. You would accept that SOME of your Ichiban Sushi is not fresh?

er... i really can't agree with this example because i don't see myself and my kids as CUSTOMERS of the school....

Education is a public service. You would accept it if SOME nights your roads are lit... and SOME months, your block is not cleaned... and SOME days you get clean water through the tap...

Same difference really, when SOME schools teach well and others ONLY from textbooks... mark compos with ONE tick... make spelling errors in every compo marked in the last 15 months.