City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged
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tutormum:
I would like to add something, do note denominational churches here DO NOT allow their pastors to moonlight or set up businesses (Methodist pastors definitely can't, and I am assuming the same for other traditional denominations here too).
Sorry to contradict you and I guess you are not a christian. For charitable work, you don't get paid. You have to get your own funds to go on mission trips and not only pay for your own expenses, you are also expect to get 'supplies' for those you are visiting e.g. if you are going to an orphanages, you are to contribute clothes and shoes for these children. Of course if there is ample supply like donated stuff, you don't need to. Honestly, KH and SH lifestyle should have raised alarm bells but since they were not drawing a salary and have their own businesses, the congregation must have thought that they are self-sufficient. Anyway, there are many pastors in USA caught using church funds for their own high flying lifestyle. Greed is one of man's weakness.WeiHan:
High paying easy jobs are so difficult to find nowaday.
I might as well start a charitable christian organisation, do some \"charitable work\" like opening orphanages in rural areas of china, myanmar etc...Then pay myself 20K a month...I can still use the money in the fund to pay for my luxurious hotel stay in different countries in the name of preaching in those countries...then I can still groom a flock of sheeps that only see me doing good charitable works but don't see me getting the high pay and enjoying my life. My job is just my habit for proselytising and it is quite an enjoyable job. -
ksi:
Oh I know!!! EGO!!!!! Bingo!!!
Why not.Way2GO:
[quote=\"ksi\"]
Errrrr....are you talking about WAL-LETS? :?
d type dat grows bigger when one rubs it.
:oops:
:imanangel: Lilac66 thot she deflected it well. :rotflmao:[/quote]Yo! Good one, there, ksi!
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Sorry, can anyone brief me on how all these started? A little short of memory… TIA!
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concern2:
Sorry, can anyone brief me on how all these started? A little short of memory... TIA!
. CHC initiated Crossover project in 2000 thereabout with purported aim to reach out to non-believers.
. SH embark on a music career in 2002 thereabout. She attempts breakthrough in America, China n Taiwan markets. Supposedly as part of Xover project.
. Her music career was quite prolific n 'successful' for first five years up to 2007, including releasing 5 Mandarin albums, 4 hits on American Billboard charts n mixing with d right crowd in US.
. Fr 2007 - 2010, money fr church donations were allegedly misappropriated thro' 2 channels to support her faltering music career.
. A scheme was hatched to cover up d alleged misappropriation by scam bonds.
- to date, a total of $50.6 mil was allegedly misappropriated.
. A tip-off got CAD probing n found d evidence to bring d inner circle of five involved to answer charges.
In d aftermath,
. There will be a new book coming to d stores tentatively entitled 'The InFamous Five: Mere mortals don't understand d mystery of God.\" by Whonids Blyton. -
concern2:
hahaha, how cld I missed dis,
Yo! Good one, there, ksi!ksi:
Oh I know!!! EGO!!!!! Bingo!!!
its a gem by ksi. :nunchuk: :nunchuk:
wrong answer! :heresmyfish: -
Way2GO:
While driving my kids to school today, my car radio was tuned to Gold 90.5FM as usual. When Mark Richmond was reading out today's news headlines, of course the main news is the CHC saga. He made a joke about it that he didn't know SH has a music career in the first place and that it was funded by the Crossover Project.........Coming out from a DJ just shows how effective the money (illegal) has been used.concern2:
Sorry, can anyone brief me on how all these started? A little short of memory... TIA!
. CHC initiated Crossover project in 2000 thereabout with purported aim to reach out to non-believers.
. SH embark on a music career in 2002 thereabout. She attempts breakthrough in America, China n Taiwan markets. Supposedly as part of Xover project.
. Her music career was quite prolific n 'successful' for first five years up to 2007, including releasing 5 Mandarin albums, 4 hits on American Billboard charts n mixing with d right crowd in US.
. Fr 2007 - 2010, money fr church donations were allegedly misappropriated thro' 2 channels to support her faltering music career.
. A scheme was hatched to cover up d alleged misappropriation by scam bonds.
- to date, a total of $50.6 mil was allegedly misappropriated.
. A tip-off got CAD probing n found d evidence to bring d inner circle of five involved to answer charges.
In d aftermath,
. There will be a new book coming to d stores tentatively entitled 'The InFamous Five: Mere mortals don't understand d mystery of God.\" by Whonids Blyton. -
Dreamaurora:
Its pointless to fight cynicism whether a Divine/Supreme being exists or try to convert non-believers with logic.
Your reply is what exactly one of the fallouts of this CHC saga that I fear will happen i.e. increased cynicism among non believers and also charity. Unfortunately, yes, even financial statements and the account books can be cooked and there is no guarantee any churches or any other charity institutions that they are all the doing the right thing.looking4Tutor:
You are talking about those who work as volunteers, many volunteered blindly and give freely.
The true is most who head and start charitable organizations, indeed, pay themselves handsomely. Most started with a clear vision and good intention, BUT thing changes along the way. To date their is no transparency from charitable organization regarding salary and allowance of their heads, despite having code of governance in place.
Too many ways to manipulate the account book.
Anyway, historically, religion is used by many smart ALex to accomplish goals - good or evil. I always respect the first smart alex that came out with the idea of divine being.
d Bible stories r full of contradictions in light of more advanced archaeological tools n more questioning scientific minds requiring verifiable empirical proofs.
It all boils down to faith.
n there will always be conman who uses dis faith to mislead d blind. -
Dreamaurora:
Dream, did u ever hear SH speaking or singing in tongues while u were there?
Personally I will be very wary of any preachers who claim such. We are just vessels of God and we cannot invoke these gifts on our own i.e. it is up to God to let His powers work through us.WeiHan:
But he can always claims that he is gifted and is the puppet of god. He can even speak in tongue and receive message and revelation from God.
I saw one clip where she seemed to be in one portion.
I read somewhere dat d No.2 told d congregation dat he cld teach them to speak in tongues.
Dat shd hv raise a red flag fr d discerning. -
jasmineong:
In light of charges filed against d five in court on 27th July,Possibly another side of the story..
http://classiads.sg/item.php?item=90&type=offer&category=others&title=city-harvest-executive-member-alleges-coc-defamation
is Christopher Pang going to withdraw his remarks or
does he intend to pursue his conviction with MCYS?
Wat do u think? -
Dreamaurora:
When u say 'traditional Christians', r u referring to RCs?
Actually the division among traditional Christians and evangelical independent Christians has always been there, it's just that this incident magnifies and put it in spotlight. When I was in CHC, Kong Hee always said repeatedly 'christians from denominational churches are lukewarm Christians'. Yes those were his exact words; that was a view that many of my ex church mates shared as well. And then when I left the church and switched to a Methodist church a lot of my church mates think that Christians from churches like CHC are brainwashed and misguided :rotflmao: But it is good that this incident sparks fruitful discussions among Christians and allows non believers to learn more about the faith also.
d RCs hv always viewed d denominational Xtians as breakaway groups.
d evangelists hv always been more fanatical in d practice of their faith than denominationals.
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