City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[No Kidding]

empressplace:

Dreamaurora:

Prior to this case, it seems very few local preachers/leaders are willing to comment on Kong Hee and Sun Ho. If only there had been a concerted effort by local church leaders to rebuke Sun Ho's MTVs and Kong Hee's prosperity teaching, Singapore's Christian landscape could have been very different.

Actually this article suggests that some pastors may have written to KH to criticise Sun Ho.

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/china-boy-china-wine/

The original article by KH cannot be found on his website anymore it seems.

If only the cover-up has been applied religiously to her semi-nakedness and not to the $50+ million transactions, they would have won some respect. Perhaps their good judgement had been rendered impotent under the powerful intoxication of her China Wine.

[No Kidding]

phtthp:

No Kidding:

In fact, Lawrence Khong of FCBC spoke in support of KH.

heard somewhere before that Lawrence Khong of FCBC performed some magic show(s) on stage.

Is this True ?
If True:-
a) what was the purpose / intent of him to perform such magic tricks? Who are his target audience / congregation ?

b) How does magic show(s) enable him reach out to the non Christians? :? I am utterly confused!
anyone from FCBC can comment ?

c) is it right or wrong to resort to magic tricks ?
is it written anywhere in the bible that Pastors are allowed or can use magic tricks ?

Of course there is no such thing as magic unless you are into the occult.

Khong Lawrence is an illusionist not unlike David Copperfield. He uses \"magic\" as a means to attract non-Christians and then preach to them.

[empressplace]

Lilac66:

Therefore, I agree we as parents have a lot on our plate as the world is becoming more corrupted ,and the fact is that the corruption is done so subtly. We have to watch our children and grab every opportunity to teach them that in the Bible, right is right, wrong is wrong. You can't turn a wrong into a right.And of course to pray unceasingly for them coz soon they'll be turning more to friends than us.

This is to me the most important point in this discussion since we are on KSP forum. Aside from a general discussion on this matter, we are all interested in looking out for our kids.

I believe we have to teach our kids to have a questioning and independent mind from young and to consider their social/ emotional needs. Even if the pastors/ religious leaders are unable to correct other leaders openly, hopefully there would be people who monitor such matters online such as c3watch and fighting for the faith.

[patagonia]

A full page ad on the weekend papers:


Everyone deserves to know the truth
http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/04/kong-hees-fleecing-of-the-masses.html (39:30 - 1:09:30)

Millions of digital media containing the podcast or Presence 2012 Sydney conference video given out for free.

All (who cares) come together, Christians or not, to help spread his sermon.

Imagine just that.

(Okay, maybe work with the fightingforfaith.com to change the tagline a little so SPH is willing to take the money and publish the ad )

[Angelight]

Yes, it’s true that Lawrence Khong performed magic shows with his daughter. In fact, the father-daughter team is quite well known in the magic show industry not only here but also overseas.

[kwcllf]

No Kidding:

empressplace:

[quote=\"Dreamaurora\"] Yes, I don't think church leaders should comment on the case or whether Kong Hee is guilty or not. But they could have engagad on related issues that are raised from this case, such as proper Christian public image (Sun Ho's MTVs) or prosperity teaching.

KH's teachings and Sun Ho's public image issues have been around for years. If they are worthy of comment, then they should be commented on whether there was a criminal case before the courts or not. In other words, the other Christian leaders should not need to wait till today if they find it necessary to criticise a leader of a very popular church in public. If they only do so today, then it begs the question of why they did not do so earlier. Does it require a criminal case to criticise teachings?

So to the contrary, I think Christian leaders may only be able to comment on the court course after the matter has come to a conclusion and may find it hard to go on to comment on KH's teachings or Sun Ho's music career.
O
In fact, Lawrence Khong of FCBC spoke in support of KH:

\"We must stand ever more united in love and stronger in prayer for Pastor Kong Hee and the church. This is a time of testing for the Body of Christ. We are all on trial before a righteous God, and we must ask ourselves: do we truly love the Body?\"

http://www.fcbc.org.sg/fcbc/en/celebration/our-thoughts-this-week

Not sure, though, why they are \"all on trial before a righteous God\" when it is just the few individuals who are charged in court?!

Lawrence Khong and Kong Hee are close pals.

A better choice of words would be \"we all stand accountable before a righteous God,...\"

I believe Lawrence Khong is not referring to the impending trial against the Famous Five but the negative fallout their arrests has on the universal church of God as a whole.[/quote]Maybe this episode will wake everybody up to such deviant teachings and be more careful. Also, many parents, I am sure will be more wary of what religious organisation their children have been \"coerced\" to join and whether they have been brainwashed.

[Dreamaurora]

patagonia:

Ok, so everyone loves world peace and no one stand up to those obviously wrong teachings (not talking about different interpretations by different denominations).


The kingdom of God shrinks because a huge group of believers are, well, not believing in the right stuff. Doesn't it matter to any Christians (church leaders or not)?

Yes, you basically sums up the reason why we have so many false teachers and teachings in today's Christianity. While I do agree that Christians should never ever criticize other religions and respect non-Christians' beliefs, I do not agree that we should just let all these false 'Christian' teachers continue to blaspheme and lead many more people astray.

In an earlier post I quoted 1 Timothy 5, let's read the verses that explain how we should approach church leaders who have sinned:

2 Timothy 5:11-16 NKJV \"17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,”[c] and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”[d] 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. 20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.\"

The Bible is very clear that yes, we should respect and honor our leaders and pastors (elders). But the Bible is very clear that if an elder has strayed/sinned, Christians should unite and rebuke the elder in public to ensure others do not follow in the same sin.

So yes, although I said earlier that we should love Kong Hee and give him the benefit of doubt for his criminal case, but his blasphemous sermons warrant a strong rebuke from other Christians. For that, I wish that a strong action is taken againts him for having perverted God's word and misleading His people.

[phtthp]

No Kidding:

Of course there is no such thing as magic unless you are into the occult.

Khong Lawrence is an illusionist not unlike David Copperfield. He uses \"magic\" as a means to attract non-Christians and then preach to them.

Angelight:

Yes, it's true that Lawrence Khong performed magic shows with his daughter.
In fact, the father-daughter team is quite well known in the magic show industry not only here but also overseas.

refer website
http://www.lawrenceandpriscilla.com/

why the need for a Pastor of another mega church like FCBC to dabble into magic show(s) ?

which bible verse permit Pastor to resort to magic, as a means / method to evangelise ?
create illusion or whatever you call it ?

[kwcllf]

No Kidding:

empressplace:

[quote=\"kwcllf\"]Nobody is glossing over the differences but to put out a statement like \"Buddhists may repeat life cycles and still not reach Nirvana. Christians go to heaven after death\" is not something should be mentioned lightly without the clear understanding of the teachings of other religions.

Which part is wrong or shows wrong undertanding may I ask?

To be more specific, I am merely emphasising that a Buddhist can only reach Nirwana with great effort over several life cycles whereas for Christians, there is no rebirth to speak about.

This is what the Bible says: Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. (Hebrews 9:27-28)[/quote]You have been taking every opportunity to push what you believe on the forum. As I have mentioned before, there are other explanation from the perspective of other religion. For example, it is well known that Muslims see Jesus as just another prophet. As a Buddhist, we have other perspective.

So, please stick to discussion on KH and gang. This will help avoud any ugly doctrinal sparring.

[patagonia]

Angelight:

Yes, it's true that Lawrence Khong performed magic shows with his daughter. In fact, the father-daughter team is quite well known in the magic show industry not only here but also overseas.

Sounds fun. Can I get a hotdog and popcorn combo with a large Coke, in the church premise?