City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested/charged

[blessed777]

Dreamaurora:

blessed777:

[quote=\"Dreamaurora\"]

I cannot say whether it's right or wrong as different Christians may have very strong opinion for or against this type of 'Jesus Camp' children service. Someone who is brought up in traditional Christian service with traditional Sunday service may find this kind of children service overly dramatic and sensational. But someone from charimastic or evangelical background may think it's perfectly fine. Personally I've been serving Sunday School in both types of environment (traditional and evangelical). I prefer the more traditional one as I feel children should be taught actual life lessons from the Bible with the reasonings explained instead of 'indoctrinating' what is right or wrong by virtue of eliciting emotions from them.

Im wondering whether u r asking parents or Christian parents abt the videos ? As this is not a Christian forum, it may confuse the non Christian parents who dont understand Christian Charismatic doctrine. This is a sensitive issue n i believe u dont hv the intention of turning this thread into a witch hunting ground on Charismatic Christian.
As a Christian Charismatic Im perfectly fine with such service (just like u mentioned in yr post). You feel that children hv to be taught actual life lessons frm the Bible, to the Charismatic Christian praying (including praying for miracles) is actual life lessons frm the Bible n we do explain it to our kids the reasons n the supporting scriptures. I was born n raised in a traditional Protestant family, n become Charismatic after experiencing miracles just like the early Christians in the Bible. As someone with both traditional n evangelical background, you might be aware of the difference between them, traditional protestant believe in cessationism while charismatic believe that miracles, signs and wonders, and other supernatural occurrences are expected to be present in the lives of believers. I have not taught my kid on hw to raise the dead yet as teaching this require big faith n i dont hv such faith yet, but I do teach my dd to pray for healing, miracles, sign n wonders. When i was sick last month i asked my dd to lay hand n pray for me as I laid in bed in pain, n I got healed completely soon after, when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now. As for the crying part, I do cry sometimes when i worship alone or during a church sercice when the presence of God come down upon us, do children experiencing the same thing ? Yes they do, when my dd cried fr the first time at sunday school svc I asked her to tell me why did she cry n she told me the same experience as I hv, when God presence come down some children would speak in tongue some cry because they feel the love of God upon them, n my dd said that she can feel the anointing even until several hours after the service over, I never taught her to cry or whatsoever n none of her sunday school teacher told her to do so. You do understand that Charismatic emphasize on personal relationship with God n its understandable that some ppl sometimes cry also remembering His goodness n mercy upon their life, I dont mind sending my kid to such service coz I hv faith in it and if you dont, you dont have to. In this case, Christian hv to agree to disagree.

It's good to hear your explanation of Charismatic practice. You know, I used to think like you too, that signs and miracles are manifestations of God's power and an indication of my faith. One of the big questions I asked when I left CHC was why did God prompted me to switch to a much more traditional denominational church (I was a walk-in and I knew noone in my current church). It was a big switch definitely. No more speaking in tongue in service, no more 'God's presence in the air', etc. So uh, the signs and miracles seem to have disappeared, so what was going on here?

After much soul-searching and praying, I finally realised why. Although for the interest of harmony, I will not go in details here. But I asked myself these few questions many many years ago:
- Did I really know God? I knew I had personal relationship with God (and I still do) but have I tried to understand Him before?
- Is it right to ask God for blessings and miracles in our lives? Is this really what the Scripture said? What are the true purpose of blessings and miracles?
- What if I can't feel God's presence and there is no tangible blessings in my life. Will I still worship God? Does it mean I have no faith?

These questions are of course very personal, but I think all Christians, both traditional and charismatic, will at one point ask at least one of these questions. Finding out these answers I believe will bring us closer to God.[/quote]I believe God loves the body of Christ regardless of denomination. I see every denomination has their strength in certain area ie: SDA has good teaching in healthy life style, n i still like to read some interesting protestant Bible devotion, etc and just bcoz im now joint Charismatic church (not a mega church) doesnt mean i think its without flaw.
God has vision for every church, its good that u fine peace n purpose in yr current church it could be that its His plan for u. What God wants from us is personal relationship with Him n its not abt miracles, sign n wonders not abt feeling too.. For many yrs i as Charismatic Christian did not feel or manifesting anything, until recently, n dont speak in tongue even until now.. but that doesnt matter as i know He loves me just like He loves others.

The purpose of miracles, sign n wonder is to bring ppl to God n not an indication of faith, u have bigger faith when u dont see but u still believe in Him. the Bible says that gift n calling is without repentance so just because someone perform sign n wonder doesnt mean that the person walk in the will of God, the person could perform miracles yet his/her life is a disgrace to God. I was naive on my early yrs n i learnt a lot through my ignorance that walking in Him we need to see things through his eyes not thorugh humans eyes.. I understand what you hv been through make u feel the need to be cautious, i do too hv the same sentiment, i've seen many flaws in many human (be the teaching or the hypocrisy, etc) regardless of denomination n yes including Charismatic i no llonger swallow any teaching without consulting the Holy Spirit n the words of God (Bible). We are still living in this imperfect world n Im glad that yr past experience make you wiser n does not leave yr faith.
Yes u r right, as a Christian i've my soul searching at many points of my life and the greatest revelation i got is from a traditional missionary : God is glorified the most is when in the middle of tragedy/suffering a Christian still able to say : that God is more than enough for me. I think its easier to gv God glory when we are blessed but will every Christian able to say that in the middle of suffering that's my concern that most prosperity gospel preacher dont prepare their followers to endure suffering like Paul n the apostles. I believe in prosperity gospel to certain extent, like God wants to bless us to bless others, God will provide us with what we need spiritually n physically (health n provision) but i despise the teaching of giving in order to get, basically anything which is not out of love need to be questioned.. the different emphasize among denomination can balance the body instead of hurting each other, the key is to balance the teaching which is not easy but possible... sorry if i offended u in my previous reply, was not intended, i know frm yr previous posts that you hv genuine concern fr the body of Christ, thanks

[Daddy D]

[quote]
... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now....[/quote]真的吗???
Like that also can? :siam:

[Lyddon]

blessed777:

.... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now.

I don't know which part of PC was splashed with water ... but from engineering perspective, it would be prudent to:

1) remove the source of electrical power BEFORE laying any hand(s) on the PC, and
2) with power unplugged, ensure all visible water has been removed, and
3) wait a couple of days for residual water to evaporate before plugging power in and turning on PC. (if in doubt wait a week)

Having faith in religion is one thing, but I hope you have taken precautionary steps for basic safety.

[blessed777]

Lyddon:

blessed777:

.... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now.

I don't know which part of PC was splashed with water ... but from engineering perspective, it would be prudent to:

1) remove the source of electrical power BEFORE laying any hand(s) on the PC, and
2) with power unplugged, ensure all visible water has been removed, and
3) wait a couple of days for residual water to evaporate before plugging power in and turning on PC. (if in doubt wait a week)

Having faith in religion is one thing, but I hope you have taken precautionary steps for basic safety.

Thanks Lyddon, i did take the first 2 steps except fr no.3 as dh asked me to call technician asap (we need to use the pc) to check whether its possible to restore the pc, after trying to on and off several times (this was a mistake should not turn it on immediately).
I know God can use technician to help n its a norm, nothing wrong with it
but as usual i pray first before trying other means :D.
Will take note the no.3 as safety precaution step.

[Way2GO]

blessed777:

Lyddon:

I don't know which part of PC was splashed with water ... but from engineering perspective, it would be prudent to:

1) remove the source of electrical power BEFORE laying any hand(s) on the PC, and
2) with power unplugged, ensure all visible water has been removed, and
3) wait a couple of days for residual water to evaporate before plugging power in and turning on PC. (if in doubt wait a week)

Having faith in religion is one thing, but I hope you have taken precautionary steps for basic safety.

Thanks Lyddon, i did take the first 2 steps except fr no.3 as dh asked me to call technician asap (we need to use the pc) to check whether its possible to restore the pc, after trying to on and off several times (this was a mistake should not turn it on immediately).
I know God can use technician to help n its a norm, nothing wrong with it
but as usual i pray first before trying other means :D.
Will take note the no.3 as safety precaution step.

Gud advice fr Lyddon on safety precautions except I wld differ on pt 3.
Remove residual water/moisture ASAP without delay to avoid water damage, eg by drying with hair dryer.

[concern2]

Daddy

[quote]
... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now....

真的吗???
Like that also can? :siam:[/quote]Sorry, no time to read all the comments, but this one caught my eye, and I remember DH is sometimes fond of saying, lao ya po ho, dian nao mai go pai, and it also worked leh... :rotflmao:

[december21]

Daddy

[quote]
... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now....

真的吗???
Like that also can? :siam:[/quote]This is called miracle. I myself also encountered this miracle on my camera. As long as you got faith, it will. I even know of greater miracle like healing of illness. Anyway, it's just the level of faith. Non Christian may never understand and probably take it as joke..

[SilentHermit]

[quote]... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now....[/quote]

concern2:

Sorry, no time to read all the comments, but this one caught my eye, and I remember DH is sometimes fond of saying, lao ya po ho, dian nao mai go pai, and it also worked leh...

december21:

This is called miracle. I myself also encountered this miracle on my camera. As long as you got faith, it will. I even know of greater miracle like healing of illness. Anyway, it's just the level of faith. Non Christian may never understand and probably take it as joke..

Having followed this post for a while, I see that it has now become more of a discussion about religion, the different denominations and not so much related to the subject title “City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested….” Being a newbie of a forum, I suppose this is normal? Perhaps we could keep it this way till 25 July when more developments come about? hehehee

Anyway, at this point, I wish to provide my 2 cents..

I think it is normal how the same kind of incident can be interpreted in different ways by different cultures or religions. The subject was about a PC gotten wet, a prayer was said and the PC restored to its working condition. I did not trace to see who provided this post, but I take it that it was by a Christian and the prayer was to God – prayer was answered. Concern2 shared that her DH, when in similar situations, “prayed” to “Lao Ya” and “Dian Nao Mai” and DH also seem to achieve the same result – prayer answered.

As a reader, when you read this post, you probably can relate one way or the other, to a similar situation in your past, where you have witnessed others or experienced it for yourself, “prayed” for something to “whatever-they-believed-in” (i.e. God) and the prayer was answered, very similar to the wet PC scenario mentioned above. But maybe that person is not a Christian, but a Taoist, a Buddhist or a Muslim. Somehow, sometime, you find that people’s prayers are answered. In accordance to whatever beliefs they have, they will also find a way to reconcile with the situation when their prayers are not answered (i.e. the Gods are testing the strength of their faith”)

The truth is our kids will grow up to see the above happening to all his relatives, friends, colleagues and associates from all different cultures and religions. And if the kid is in the process of searching for a faith, I wonder how is he going to judge which of these “miracles” prayed for by different people from different cultures and religions, truly have a basis to attribute “the PC restoring to normal operation” as a prayer answered? I mean, after all, because of their different background, they are praying to different God or Gods or whatever…and who can say they are wrong.. or right? Muslim say Muslim right, Christian say Christian right and so on..

However, among all the posts I found one comment by WeiHan that I think, can survive the test of time... I quote his/her wise words:

WeiHan:

Previously, I wrote about genuine spirituality.

It doesn't matter how many interpretations there exist for the Bible. It doesn't matter how many schools there are in Buddhism. The gauges are how kind and compassionate that person has transformed into. Has wisdom starts to shine through him?

I think the greatness of a faith, can do wonders to a person's character and behavior, indirectly leading to the betterment of a community, a nation, mankind and ultimately towards achieving world peace.

[kwcllf]

OK. Back to KH and the gang of 4.

[BeContented]

SilentHermit:

[quote]... when our pc stop working last month after accidently splashed by water i asked my dd to lay hand on the pc n pray together with me for it to be restored n it did restored soon after we prayed n working perfectly ok until now....

concern2:

Sorry, no time to read all the comments, but this one caught my eye, and I remember DH is sometimes fond of saying, lao ya po ho, dian nao mai go pai, and it also worked leh...

december21:

This is called miracle. I myself also encountered this miracle on my camera. As long as you got faith, it will. I even know of greater miracle like healing of illness. Anyway, it's just the level of faith. Non Christian may never understand and probably take it as joke..

Having followed this post for a while, I see that it has now become more of a discussion about religion, the different denominations and not so much related to the subject title “City Harvest's founder Kong Hee & 4 others arrested….” Being a newbie of a forum, I suppose this is normal? Perhaps we could keep it this way till 25 July when more developments come about? hehehee

Anyway, at this point, I wish to provide my 2 cents..

I think it is normal how the same kind of incident can be interpreted in different ways by different cultures or religions. The subject was about a PC gotten wet, a prayer was said and the PC restored to its working condition. I did not trace to see who provided this post, but I take it that it was by a Christian and the prayer was to God – prayer was answered. Concern2 shared that her DH, when in similar situations, “prayed” to “Lao Ya” and “Dian Nao Mai” and DH also seem to achieve the same result – prayer answered.

As a reader, when you read this post, you probably can relate one way or the other, to a similar situation in your past, where you have witnessed others or experienced it for yourself, “prayed” for something to “whatever-they-believed-in” (i.e. God) and the prayer was answered, very similar to the wet PC scenario mentioned above. But maybe that person is not a Christian, but a Taoist, a Buddhist or a Muslim. Somehow, sometime, you find that people’s prayers are answered. In accordance to whatever beliefs they have, they will also find a way to reconcile with the situation when their prayers are not answered (i.e. the Gods are testing the strength of their faith”)

The truth is our kids will grow up to see the above happening to all his relatives, friends, colleagues and associates from all different cultures and religions. And if the kid is in the process of searching for a faith, I wonder how is he going to judge which of these “miracles” prayed for by different people from different cultures and religions, truly have a basis to attribute “the PC restoring to normal operation” as a prayer answered? I mean, after all, because of their different background, they are praying to different God or Gods or whatever…and who can say they are wrong.. or right? Muslim say Muslim right, Christian say Christian right and so on..

However, among all the posts I found one comment by WeiHan that I think, can survive the test of time... I quote his/her wise words:

WeiHan:

Previously, I wrote about genuine spirituality.

It doesn't matter how many interpretations there exist for the Bible. It doesn't matter how many schools there are in Buddhism. The gauges are how kind and compassionate that person has transformed into. Has wisdom starts to shine through him?

I think the greatness of a faith, can do wonders to a person's character and behavior, indirectly leading to the betterment of a community, a nation, mankind and ultimately towards achieving world peace.[/quote] :goodpost:
Being a freethinker myself, I too agree with WeiHan's words