Asia spending billions on tutors: study
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oxyleo:
Oxyleo, you are a gem. :celebrate:
In this forum, of course we do not need to form separate threads for separate camps. We just need some RESPECT and CIVILITY from both sides. Accorded to those also that may not write so well, think so clearly. Let's give everyone some space shall we? -
limlim:
errrrmmmm......you feel injustice that SMRT ban drinking and eating and thereby restrict your freedom to eat and drink.
if you want to talk about collateral damage.. innocent parties who are restricted because of some inconsiderate pple.. maybe we are on the same frequency..
I feel the injustice when I am not allowed to drink or eat carefully in the station that is stationary w/o any crowd and no one standing beside me. But you say (or suggest?), it is perfectly acceptable to restrict my freedom to eat and drink.
Are we on the same frequency?
and yet you have on many occasions suggested banning tuition and restrict others the freedom of engaging tuition for their kids.
Well, I for one....support SMRT ban on drinking and eating.
As for banning tuition, I will not die and I suppose my kids will still cope....maybe drop some marks/grades. But people who cannot teach, children cannot cope, need more help eg. 1-1.....they will be the one who suffer the most at the end of this. Improving quality of teachers is a good idea, but that will take time to implement but eventually, there will still be those who still need more help than others. -
BeContented:
Alright, banning tuition was a bad idea.. no issue with that.. sorry to suggest that. :imsorry:
errrrmmmm......you feel injustice that SMRT ban drinking and eating and thereby restrict your freedom to eat and drink.limlim:
if you want to talk about collateral damage.. innocent parties who are restricted because of some inconsiderate pple.. maybe we are on the same frequency..
I feel the injustice when I am not allowed to drink or eat carefully in the station that is stationary w/o any crowd and no one standing beside me. But you say (or suggest?), it is perfectly acceptable to restrict my freedom to eat and drink.
Are we on the same frequency?
and yet you have on many occasions suggested banning tuition and restrict others the freedom of engaging tuition for their kids.
Well, I for one....support SMRT ban on drinking and eating.
As for banning tuition, I will not die and I suppose my kids will still cope....maybe drop some marks/grades. But people whose cannot teach, children cannot cope, need more help eg. 1-1.....they will be the one who suffer the most at the end of this. Improving quality of teachers is a good idea, but that will take time to implement but eventually, there will still be those who still need more help than others.
Just talking about some regulation and control now..
What I said about the \"injustice\" is.. I can accept it.. Actually, I also support it. it has to be, for the greater good and comfort of all passengers.. even if I feel it is not fair to me.. but I SUPPORT it.
Can the others accept the same? -
limlim:
What sort of data can we get from licensing that can determine some course of action? Don't get me wrong, not criticizing you, just want to hear what do you have in mind.
Licensing means tutor must be registered. Actually, my personal feel is maybe just pay $5 and apply, just like applying hawker license. Don't you feel more assured buying of licensed hawker center instead no license ones?FQW:
C'mon, limlim.
So you suggestion of [the criteria of] licensing tutors is based solely on their academic qualification? That's a lazy way to licensing issit? I for one, doesnt have any teaching 'certification', but I dare say I'm well qualified to coach any lower pri sch pupils with similar ability as my child, having worked closely with him for the last few years.
Your suggested criteria of licensing 'qualified' tutors would have in one swoop, disqualified many experienced and good tutors - when the responsibility of gauging the suitability of tutor-pupil combination is solely a parent's prerogative to make. The chemistry of teaching is one of soft skill as well, not just binary - have/don't have cert so straight forward.
But before we get ahead of ourselves, what do we hope to achieve in all this [licensing]?
Maybe MOE could evaluate your suitability. This is open to how to assess and you may have good suggestions on how this is to be done. It may not be academic qualifications alone.
As a tutor yourself, who is working full-time(?), wouldn't you like to be recognized as qualified tutor? (again, you can suggest how to best gauge being \"qualified\")
With licensing, we get data. and with data, the best course of action can be taken.
Also while some parents would like to engage licensed tutors, I think word of mouth and track record would be more important factors that affect a parent's decision of whether to engage a tutor.
Actually, I believe there are many undergraduates who give tuition in their spare time, unless times have changed. It certainly was the case during my time in uni. Are these tutors no good if they aren't licensed tutors? Actually I am inclined to think that they could be better tutors because the subjects taught are still so fresh in their mind and for e.g. they surely know the Math model method as opposed to some of us here... -
FQW:
more analogy:Singfrench:
If the 20% who have weak immune systems use antibiotics, that's fine but if 60% or more use antibiotics then the bacteria (aka exams) are just going to get tougher and tougher for fear of being beaten too easily. Then the antibiotics have to be stronger and stronger. It's a viscous cycle both one-upping each other only the kids suffer lor since adults are immune to this bug.
Err, why would the 60% [I guess they're the ones with strong immune system in your e.g.] who are not sick want to take antibiotics [tuition]? If they so wish to, they should take vitamins [enrichment] so as not to fall sick. If less pple fall sick, then there's less chance of germs mutating/spreading to everyone else, including those 20% with weak immune system. Issit this a good thing?
We can all quote analogies to support our case, and then, we can all interprete analogies to support our case. Agree?
Before you pass judgement on my post, please hear me out on this one below.
What I would like to suggest - instead of begrudging those who take vitamins - is that, we should find out the reason why the 20% in your e.g. are with weak immunity in the first place? Is there something we can help to strengthen their bodies, especially in the early, formative years.
This, rather than insisting those with stronger bodies should be discouraged/disallowed to take vitamins. I for one, certainly don't want to see all children [weak or strong] fall sick with high frequency.
Be it vitamins or antibiotics the only people who are truly reaping the benefits are the pharmaceutical companies.... we won't need vitamins if we're given a healthy well-balanced diet of good education and TLC. Antibiotics if taken in moderation when absolutely necessary is fine but there's no reason to abuse it. -
Singfrench:
What constitutes a \"healthy well-balanced diet of good education and TLC\" means different things to different pple. That's a given.
more analogy:
Be it vitamins or antibiotics the only people who are truly reaping the benefits are the pharmaceutical companies.... we won't need vitamins if we're given a healthy well-balanced diet of good education and TLC. Antibiotics if taken in moderation when absolutely necessary is fine but there's no reason to abuse it.
Whether or not one chooses to take vitamins, it is not up to others to say [it's his perogative after all].
If we can have consensus on the 2 pts above, then it'll be more meaningful to carry on this discussion. -
limlim:
Alright, banning tuition was a bad idea.. no issue with that.. sorry to suggest that. :imsorry:
Just talking about some regulation and control now..
What I said about the \"injustice\" is.. I can accept it.. Actually, I also support it. it has to be, for the greater good and comfort of all passengers.. even if I feel it is not fair to me.. but I SUPPORT it.
Can the others accept the same?
limlim... you are a dear... ***a million times***
You are a big man indeed who has the courage to concede a point that you realise was a \"bad idea\". I must confess that when I first came across your posts last year, I didn't like you much because you RATTLED and SHOOK so much and were always so anti-govt.
Now however... I have had experience talking to an MOE who feints and dodges and provides excuses and self-congratulates and all that... in short, I am looking at a solid silent wall who pushes back instead of engaging in sincere discussion and understanding of SOME/MANY parents' pain.
One year later from when I first met you online, I can somewhat understand why you RATTLE all the time.
I understand because when faced with a solid silent push-back wall, I too feel the frustration and want to RATTLE more.Yet, I now realise that no matter how much we RATTLE, the wall won't move.
Or will it?
After all, ministerial pay did move... and so did availability of HDB flats... and now MoT has decided to bravely own up to being partly responsible for the MRT breakdowns. Unlike you, I ONLY feel frustrated about education because in my own personal experience I have gone through real pain. I have seen my son's pain (Mom, I am not one of the smart ones) and my son's joy (when he topped the class after I bought for him the needed books for self-study). A Mother feels a child's pain twice as keenly, and feels his joys twice as much.
I ask forgiveness from fellow forummers if I have RATTLED too much.
Limlim, in matters such as transport and housing, I am blessed. I've not stepped into an MRT train in 10 years. My HDB flat was 2000 sq ft (very comfortable size) and very affordable. I sold it at 3 times the price I paid. I have no personal pain to recount there... but I now know enough to refrain from judging you because you might know real pain OR you might know people close to you with such pain. The more I understand how my country has changed... the more I appreciate you limlim. Thank you for doing your part as a concerned citizen.
Not all of us are gifted writers. Autumnbronze, oxyleo etc... write really well. It takes a good writer to write with subtlety taking care to surgical cutting where ideas need to be cut. When limlim writes, it can come across as tarring all teachers with the same brush. I am sure he does not mean to. And I am impressed that he has the largesse to admit to being in error on banning tuition.
:udaman:
Teachers indeed don't teach sufficiently. The question is why they don't. It cannot be that all teachers are bad. If indeed, all teachers don't teach sufficiently THEN logic dictates that it CANNOT BE the fault of Teachers.
Why so? Statistically, it is very improbable to find a whole population of Teachers who are lazy and aim to profiteer. Quality and ethical frameworks of Teachers, like in any large population left UNregulated, will fall on a bell curve. However, IF facilitating and regulatory mechanisms are not in place to help this bell curve of Teachers teach, the WHOLE bell curve falls below par... and it ISN'T the fault of Teachers.
The whole population of Teachers (both bad and good) can be helped by...
- better textbooks
- less constipated sharing between schools
- less competition and more collaboration between schools
- less competition and more collaboration between teachers
- better student access to online learning resources (which at the moment are minimal AND so simple they don't look ANYTHING like the PSLE)
- less ambitious testing
My 2 Cents on Contentment
As the people like Becontented (apologies... not directed at you... just can't resist a play on your nick) who MAY possibly want everyone to be contented, then seriously, I would be contented too if my daughter were a prefect and my son were in the best class. Indeed, Chenonceau is most contented with the MRT system and bus system because she doesn't take public transport AT ALL. Certainly, I could wish for better. Chenonceau is the name of a castle that I wish I owned and lived in. Nonetheless, I still am most contented with my housing because my public housing was great. Gee... I really don't understand why people complain so much about housing and transport.
In my opinion, whilst I may be contented with my housing/transport life... and I expect many would rejoice with me for my good fortune... I think it is somewhat not quite logical for me to expect others like Janet, who don't live my blessed life, to be quite as contented as me.
My experience in education has made me more tolerant of complaints by other Singaporeans who do have to brave the crowds in the MRT every day. I don't really know their pain, but I do now feel enough for them to refrain from judging or scorning them.
Limlim's issue is in coming across as tarring all with the same brush. He probably does it because he lacks subtlety (like most men
:siam: 
). I think he means well.
-
BeContented:
I was going to post a similar reply, but no need to now.
errrrmmmm......you feel injustice that SMRT ban drinking and eating and thereby restrict your freedom to eat and drink.limlim:
if you want to talk about collateral damage.. innocent parties who are restricted because of some inconsiderate pple.. maybe we are on the same frequency..
I feel the injustice when I am not allowed to drink or eat carefully in the station that is stationary w/o any crowd and no one standing beside me. But you say (or suggest?), it is perfectly acceptable to restrict my freedom to eat and drink.
Are we on the same frequency?
and yet you have on many occasions suggested banning tuition and restrict others the freedom of engaging tuition for their kids.
. -
Just musing and free writing ....
Teaching is more of an Art than Science.
Does that mean that regulating tuition will result in
1. An increase in tuition fees due to supply of those without teaching qualifications dropping out, thus allowing those with qualifications to take advantage by increasing their fees
2. Taking away the livelihood of those who do not have teaching qualifications ie long time tutors
3. Restrict non-teachers who have a flair for teaching and work well with kids from venturing into this profession to earn extra income to perhaps
finance their further studies eg Uni undergrads or even working adults who wish to pursue further studies
4. My son's art and piano tutor do not have teaching qualifications. One is a student and the other a SAHM with a degree in Music. Do they fall under
the category of 'unlicensed' tutors then? But they are really good with what they do and my son enjoys their lessons
5. Tuition is not restricted to local pupils. We have foreign students in local schools as well as international schools who do engage in tutors too. We
also have foreign students who come down here and engage in tutors so that they are eligible to sign up for private courses here or enter local schools after sitting and passing the entrance tests
6. How are we going to break down the % of those who engage in tutors to hothouse them, to genuinely help them or because they just want to further increase their knowledge bank
7. What about enrichment centers who offer a myriad of courses, how to get an actual % of breakdown of Pri or Sec pupils who sign up for tuition in specific subjects
8. What about those who are fortunate enough to have their family members coach/teach them
A lot of logistics involved :?:
My take ...
1. If all unnecessary admin work and 'extra-curricular' activities that the teachers have to be involved in to make them look good in their work
review are taken away from them, everything else will fall into place
2. Stringent interview and training process where those who are entering the profession to ride out the economic down turn for instance as opposed to those who are really passionate in teaching have to be sieved out. This would mean that those who obtained their degrees via part time studies in private institutions (accredited of course) will have to be considered, in addition to those who studied via the conventional route
These are the roots of the problem. Not the moonlighting or whatever
else.
My 2 cents. -
autumnbronze:
I was going to post a similar reply, but no need to now.[/quote]Autumnbronze (I still owe you a PM sista...
errrrmmmm......you feel injustice that SMRT ban drinking and eating and thereby restrict your freedom to eat and drink.BeContented:
[quote=\"limlim\"]
if you want to talk about collateral damage.. innocent parties who are restricted because of some inconsiderate pple.. maybe we are on the same frequency..
I feel the injustice when I am not allowed to drink or eat carefully in the station that is stationary w/o any crowd and no one standing beside me. But you say (or suggest?), it is perfectly acceptable to restrict my freedom to eat and drink.
Are we on the same frequency?
and yet you have on many occasions suggested banning tuition and restrict others the freedom of engaging tuition for their kids.
.
)... does this pour oil upon your troubled waters? :hugs: I dunno why limlim deleted it... hmmmmmm...limlim:
Alright, banning tuition was a bad idea.. no issue with that.. sorry to suggest that. :imsorry:
Just talking about some regulation and control now..
What I said about the \"injustice\" is.. I can accept it.. Actually, I also support it. it has to be, for the greater good and comfort of all passengers.. even if I feel it is not fair to me.. but I SUPPORT it.
Can the others accept the same?
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